Norway now offering formal instruction to refugees that rape is wrong

originally posted by: rumcrook
a reply to: ScepticScot

That doesn't remotely explain the huge increase but it does work towards obfuscation of the arrival of the epidemic and you have to be willfully blind to beleive native swede men were responsible for just as many vicious rapes as the new arrivals. Also why no classes to teach men not to rape aimed at native Swedish men? Under your dogma they are just as responsible for the rape epidemic and if all immigrant muslim males were removed from Sweden the numbers would stay the same according to your ubsurd claims of more government scrutiny on more things catagorized as rape. That doesn't add up and if you were being honest you would admit that instead of trying to obfuscate, deflect and be an opologist for islam.

No it exactly explains that the 'Huge Increase' is nothing of the sort but result of changes to how rape is recorded and an increase willingness to report it. Show me a study showing rape in Sweden is the highest based on a consistent measure and methodology between countries and I'll happily concede there is a an actual problem.
Here is an alternative example, when police set up more speed traps recorded traffic crimes go up. Do you think this means that speed traps encourage people to speed or is possible that it just increases the amount of people getting caught?
The one who I think needs to be honest is yourself and admit that you would like there to be a massive rape problem (which is pretty sick to be honest) as it agrees with your preconceived bias.

a reply to: gosseyn

Stop being so hypocritical. It is well known that rape has been invented some 1500 years ago in the Arabic peninsula along with war, violence, treachery, lies, murder, cannibalism, etc.. I heard some scientists are close to discover the 'muslim gene' that is responsible for all the bad that has happened in the world since the dawn of times.

Stop being so hypocritical. It is well known that rape has been invented some thousands of years ago.. caveman raped woman.. rape is rape

only pigs dolphins and humans f*** for pleasure not just for reproduction so unless female gets pleasure out of it or wants it or wants babies

it's all rape

sorry I forgot to add here the male child rape victims

a reply to: ScepticScot

Here is an alternative example, when police set up more speed traps recorded traffic crimes go up. Do you think this means that speed traps encourage people to speed or is possible that it just increases the amount of people getting caught?

Dumb comparison. In the case of rape, it depends on people reporting the rape, the police are not actively on patrol to catch rapes in the act.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ScepticScot

Here is an alternative example, when police set up more speed traps recorded traffic crimes go up. Do you think this means that speed traps encourage people to speed or is possible that it just increases the amount of people getting caught?

Dumb comparison. In the case of rape, it depends on people reporting the rape, the police are not actively on patrol to catch rapes in the act.

It's just an illustration of the difference between recorded crime and actual crime.
You cant directly compare recorded crime statistics between two countries that not only have different likelihood of the crime being reported and degree of importance attached to investigating by the police but actually operate using a different definition in the first place.
It is like the bogus comparisons doing the rounds between UK and US violent crimes a while back. They were complete nonsense yet if repeated enough by people with an agenda to push they begin to be accepted as fact.

a reply to: ScepticScot

It's just an illustration of the difference between recorded crime and actual crime.

Which, as I said, doesn't fly in this case, since it has nothing to with intensified and directed police actions.

So, what exactly caused the increase according to you?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
“Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” [Muslim refugee Abdu Osman]

Someone please expound. What's the deal with smiling?

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ScepticScot

It's just an illustration of the difference between recorded crime and actual crime.

Which, as I said, doesn't fly in this case, since it has nothing to with intensified and directed police actions.

So, what exactly caused the increase according to you?

So your question is what other than expanding legal definition of rape, changing how the crimes are recorded and making a concerted effort to encourage women to report sexual crime would result in an increase in recorded rape?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I was asking an honest question, i didn't follow the last pages so I don't know what was said. Do you have a link and/or on what page?

a reply to: HardBoiled
Fair enough. Apologies if was curt I actually thought that you where same poster who called me an apologist on the basis that I pointed out the stats don't say what they thought they did. Cant link properly as on phone but I have a post on page 1 explaining and another member has posted at top of page 2.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Shuye
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Rape cases in Sweden have increased 1400% in over 20 years.

Sweden is now the rape capital of the West.


Please explain that.

A little basic research would explain that perfectly.

Firstly, Sweden have had a huge anti-rape campaign recently, obviously resulting in more reported cases.

Also, Sweden have changed the way they report rape. As in a women can now claim she was raped by her husband every night for the last 15 years and that would show up on the statistics as 5475 rapes.

Its the same thing as how Australia has one of the highest kidnapping stats in the world. At first glance you would think Australia has a huge problem with kidnapping... Yet if you look further into it, you'll see that the second a mother contacts the police and says the father has kidnapped the kids, its counted on the stats as a kidnap, whether charges are laid or not.

When statistics seem abnormally high, all you need to do is research how the stats were clocked... 9 times out of 10, you'll find the method for gaining said stats are completely flawed.

Replied as this answers question above better than I have.

a reply to: ScepticScot

These changes were introduced in 2005. Why didn't the number of reports stabilise after 2006 if there is no increase in the number of cases?

Here are some more statistics,

The anti-immigration Sweden Democrats Party has repeatedly made the claim that the high number of rape reports is at least partly due to the influx of Muslim immigrants.[35][36] Two reports from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (BRÅ) are relevant to the rate of rape among immigrants to Sweden and their descendants. The latest published report that indicates the association between immigrants and rape was published in 2005 and revealed that foreign born individuals were 5.5 times more likely to be charged of rape than individuals born in Sweden to two Swedish parents.[37][38] While the report does not break down the foreign born category by country of origin, it has been found to be predictive of crime rates in other Nordic countries.[39]37][9]

An earlier report published in 1996 by the BRÅ did break down rate of rape convictions by country of origin. It found that between 1985 and 1989 individuals with a foreign background made up 61% of all rape convictions while only representing 6.3% of the population. Ethnic groups with particularly high rates of rape included individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia), and Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries) who were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, and 17 greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively.[

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ScepticScot
None of this changes the fact that there are a large number of rapes occurring in Sweden. The fact that they have made an attempt at better educating people as to what constitutes an act of sexual abuse, does not begin to take in the numbers of rapes that occur that are never reported, the number of rapes that are still not accepted as rape due to cultural beliefs, and the number of rapes that involve children and men.

If those numbers were included in the tally taken before, and included in the recent tally, I think the facts would be staggering.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Not sure how I can word this any clearer. The reason rape statistics are higher in Sweden is that they have a broader definition of rape and count differently than most other countries. They also have policies in place to encourage reporting. The countries with the highest recorded sexual crimes are developed nations with strict and enforced laws on sexual crimes. This should be fairly obvious.
The issue isn't that Sweden has a higher rate but that the Swedish rate is accurate and too many countries underreport the issue or just don't treat huge amounts of sexual assault as a crime.

a reply to: HardBoiled
That is moving on to a separate issue. There is no evidence that Sweden has mote of an issue with rape that any other country. In fact quite the opposite it seems to be doing more to address the issue.
That being the case it would not surprise me if, because Sweden is addressing the issue correctly , a high proportion of sexual crimes are commited by people coming from countries' with less comprehensive measures to deal with sexual crime.
I don't believe there is enough evidence to confirm one way or the other. What I do believe is that Sweden is dealing with issue better than most countries.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Not sure how I can word this any clearer. The reason rape statistics are higher in Sweden is that they have a broader definition of rape and count differently than most other countries. They also have policies in place to encourage reporting. The countries with the highest recorded sexual crimes are developed nations with strict and enforced laws on sexual crimes. This should be fairly obvious.
The issue isn't that Sweden has a higher rate but that the Swedish rate is accurate and too many countries underreport the issue or just don't treat huge amounts of sexual assault as a crime.

You are correct. However it doesn't explain why immigrants are 5 x more likely and 4 times more likely to commit violent crime.

Now I will admit that causation as I said in my very first point is a tricky thing. Immigrants usually don't have the same wealth or opportunity and often live in pretty tough situations.

It is undeniable however different cultures adapt differently to that situation. Which again is very difficult to have actual causation.

However if you look at cultural aspects and belief systems you can see some issues. The subjugation of woman culturally is probably an indicator to look at. It is undeniable that certain aspects of Islam are at odds with the west.

We can't marry girls as young as 9 against their will for instance. It's illegal to have sex with minors. It's illegal to rape people who are not from the chosen religious background , etc.

The subjugation of women in the middle East outside of Jordan and Turkey in the Muslim world is an actual issue. So is how conservative Muslims treat infidels.

You have to weary of drawing to many conclusions of causation but there are some indicators that show there are cultural differences that create a clash.
L

the problem is that the OP is directed at Muslim religion being the cause of an increase in rape well that's not true

you talk about sharia law but out of 22% of a Muslim worldwide population only 12-13% percent are sharia and it is also not true that sharia law doesn't punish rape so if you want to point out statistic cover all areas ..crunch the numbers .. most rapist won't be Muslims but uneducated agreessive power tripping mentally delusional psychotic drugged up humans

Rape in Saudi Arabia
Rape in Saudi Arabia has been considerably investigated by various observers. In 1988, sexual offences stood at 2.19 rapes per 100,000 population.[1] Under Sharia law, a law generally enforced by the Islamic states(Islamic Law), punishment imposed by the court on the rapist may range from flogging to execution.

so the point is keep religion out of this argument

I am western culture
I have been raped.
I have been bashed to the point I miscarried.
I have been bashed and abused not by one but several western culture man.

From experience actually the Muslim man I interacted with are beautiful souls my Muslim friend pulled me out of depression my Muslim boss helped me out of abusive relationship my Muslim friends excel at university and helped me achieve better scores my Muslim friends treat me with respect and teached me so many wonderful things I won't let anyone categorise these man and woman as rapists

my western culture is far from ideal

if I don't put out I am not cool if I don't walk out in mini skirt with heels I am not desirable.. in my life time my culture went from if you are not married by 21 you are a social outcast to kids having sex at the age of 12 because of peer pressure

so let's focus here a little

obviously the concerns in this OP is the culture of refugees from a particular demographic area so let's talk about the concern I am not interested in global issues or religion in this conversation why? Simply because us arguing here won't fix Jacksquad and me and you don't need to create friction.. me and you are not the enemies

a reply to: ScepticScot

That is moving on to a separate issue.

No it really is not. The changes were introduced in 2005. One would expect to see a spike in reports the first year, then stabilisation in the years after, if there weren't more cases of rape.

There is no evidence that Sweden has more of an issue with rape that any other country.

They have at least the highest rape conviction cases per capita of the EU.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The issue isn't that Sweden has a higher rate but that the Swedish rate is accurate and too many countries underreport the issue or just don't treat huge amounts of sexual assault as a crime.

I was referring to the fact that whatever numbers were reported, before or after, that the numbers are not even close to accurate.

The crime is continuing to exist, and the numbers grow. We happen to be talking about Sweden in this post, but the results are similar in like places. Some countries have numbers that would indeed dwarf Sweden if rape was recognized as a crime in those countries, and if victims were safe, and free to report their assaults to the same degree as Sweden.

The number reporting is sure to dwindle again if the results of reporting does not show a benefit effect. If the reporters are going to be treated poorly, or are placed in danger, and their attackers are allowed to go free, with little to no punishment for their crimes, it makes reporting the crime an unwise thing to do for the victims.

Getting victims to report is a big step. But stopping the crime requires removing the rapist. There has to be swift action, severe penalties and removal of the rapist from any community were they can repeat their vile acts.

a reply to: Layaly
I think you are replying to the wrong poster.

My post didn't include anything you reference.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

apologies