NEWS: Appeals Court Throw Out Andrea Yates Conviction

Now I know you are a comedian. I like that

Look forward to putting my dukes up with you thru words!

You got it there, tough guy!
Looking forward to it myself.

How many people murder someone and aren't mentally ill in some respect? Scott Peterson was labled a sociopath. A definate mental condition. Should he escape the death penalty if he indeed killed Laci (I doubt think he did it but lets pretend he did)? There are alot of crazy people out there. Gonna make excuses for all of them?

A member after my own heart!
I make excuses for very few. Bring on the Injection needles!

There is a big difference between being crazy and running down the street naked pretending your are superman and being crazy and killing your kids. If you want to use her condition at the time as an excuse then now that the postpartum depression is over you must release her. After all it wasn't her fault and the condition that caused it is over. But of course if you keep her locked up you are not buying that and you are punishing her for what she did. So in that case you have to be fair and give her the lethal injection like you would have done to every other man in the same situation.

Originally posted by Indy
How many people murder someone and aren't mentally ill in some respect? Scott Peterson was labled a sociopath. A definate mental condition. Should he escape the death penalty if he indeed killed Laci (I doubt think he did it but lets pretend he did)? There are alot of crazy people out there. Gonna make excuses for all of them?

There are different levels of mental illness. A sociopath is highly functioning and cunning - in their minds the world revolves around them. and they do know the difference between right and wrong.

As for the death penalty - I'm not for it in any instance. Far better Scotty be thrown into the general prison population where he's sure to be made someone's pretty boy in short order. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy because he is as guilty as sin.

[edit on 7/1/05 by AlwaysLearning]

There is a big difference between being crazy and running down the street naked pretending your are superman and being crazy and killing your kids. If you want to use her condition at the time as an excuse then now that the postpartum depression is over you must release her. After all it wasn't her fault and the condition that caused it is over. But of course if you keep her locked up you are not buying that and you are punishing her for what she did. So in that case you have to be fair and give her the lethal injection like you would have done to every other man in the same situation.

Yes there is a difference. Bottom line BOTTOM LINE. This woman (and I use the term extremely loosely) DROWNED 5 OF HER CHILDREN IN A BATHTUB. Originally it was said that she chased around her oldest child to catch him inorder to murder him in the tepid water of the bathtub, however it is now said that he came happily when she called him.
Forgive me, but I have tears in my eyes over this fact. This little boy trusted his mommy. Her reward to his loyalty to his mommy was to hold him under the water until he died.
Jeez - just kill this MONSTER. No excuses, no pardons, no nothing.
When she is sitting in the front row of the Devils layer, may she get what she deserves. As a human being, I turn my back on her.

As for the death penalty - I'm not for it in any instance. Far better Scotty be thrown into the general prison population where he's sure to be made someone's pretty boy in short order. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy because he is as guilty as sin.

Please forgive my ignorance, but who is Scotty?

Doggone it, with all of the talk about deny ignorance, I mention the fact that I have ignorance to this subject........ By the way - just in case I didn't make myself clear - IMHO the ONLY thing wrong with the death penalty is that it is not used anywhere near enough - and certainly in too long a period after conviction. You are convicted, then 5 minutes later your coroner picks up the cadaver. Any questions?

[edit on 1/7/2005 by superdude]

[edit on 1/7/2005 by superdude]

Must be past your bedtime - Scotty = Scott Peterson and you made reference to him yourself.

I get it, we disagree - but I still likes ya!

G'night buddy.

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I think most violence stems from "insanity" - and that insanity is health related. My research on a disease called fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD) led me to this consclusion.

...FMD is now epidemic - 65% of reported cases in the USA are found in autopsy, with a total of about 3.5 million cases reported each year. The infection starts in the blood and lymph vessels - and causes vasospasms, even in the early stages of the disease. These vasospasms can affect any part of the body, including the brain, causing "mini-strokes" with "rage" as a primary symptom.

As the disease progresses, it starts to eat other tissues and again, can pop up virtually anywhere in the body including the brain. Effects on the brain can include insanity and dementia - and are often episodic.

FMD Background:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

...I remember a study that got a lot of press last year - it said that something like 65% (?) of prison inmates had diagnosed illnesses that affected mental function. Haven't finished my research on this component - anyone else have data on this?

...the real kicker is - FMD's spread and progression are preventable. Just not done to protect big-corp profits. Kewl huh?



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I remember a study that got a lot of press last year - it said that something like 65% (?) of prison inmates had diagnosed illnesses that affected mental function. Haven't finished my research on this component - anyone else have data on this?

...the real kicker is - FMD's spread and progression are preventable. Just not done to protect big-corp profits. Kewl huh?

This is some good info. Thanx for posting it.
A preventable disease, yet we have another example of protecting the profits of the already rich. Too bad we can't punish the powers that be there as well.

Thank you Indy for interjecting the U2Us going on. But that is exactly what experts are for. In this case, this "expert" LIED. That's the problem. He LIED and the prosecution dropped the baby this time.

soficrow isn't this FMD problem just one of the problems of being human?

I read the thread you pointed to and found it interesting. However, I can't see where the 'line' should be drawn on this type thing.

As pointed out, most of the prison population has some mental dysfunction- hell, they would have not been caught if they had been thinking straight.

I don't believe for a minute that Yates didn't know right from wrong. She is just a killer and was nuts and did this without caring for the consequences of her actions.

Once you read this you will understand that Yates' defense is BS.

"The onset of postpartum depression tends to be gradual and may persist for many months, or develop into a second bout following a subsequent pregnancy. Postpartum depression affects approximately 15% of all childbearing women. Mild to moderate cases are sometimes unrecognized by women themselves. Many women feel ashamed if they are not coping and so may conceal their difficulties. This is a serious problem that disrupts women's lives and can have effects on the baby, other children, her partner, and other relationships. Levels of depression for fathers also increase significantly.

Postpartum depression is often divided into two types: early onset and late onset. An early onset most often seems like the "blues," a mild brief experience during the first days or weeks after birth. During the first week after the birth up to 80% of mothers will experience the "baby blues." This is usually a time of extra sensitivity and symptoms include tearfulness, irritability, anxiety, and mood changes, which tend to peak between three to five days after childbirth. The symptoms normally disappear within two weeks without requiring specific treatment apart from understanding, support, skill, and practice. In short, some depression, tiredness, and anxiety may fall within the "normal" range of reactions to giving birth.

Late onset appears several weeks after the birth. This involves a slowly growing feeling of sadness, depression, lack of energy, chronic tiredness, inability to sleep, change in appetite, significant weight loss or gain, and difficulty caring for the baby."

www.healthatoz.com...

The cow is a murder and should die. Are you going to allow depression to be an excuse to excape capital punishment? What next? PMS? Are you going to excuse every male in the middle of a mid-life-crisis? Nowhere in the description does it give any indication that a person is no longer able to determine right from wrong. Yates was simply an evil person and her depression exposed it. Depression doesn't keep you from knowing right from wrong. You just may not care. That is NOT a valid reason to escape punishment. Officer.. don't write me a ticket for speeding. I was depressed. lol

Yates wasn't depressed--she had postpartum psychoses. Read some of the prior posts to find out what that entails---hallucinations, delusions, paranoia... It is a real mental illness--five of the six psychiatrists that evaluated her said that she had it. It can result in infanticide as the mother believes that by killing her child, she is saving them/doing God's work/killing a demon/etc.

The Duke Law Journal published an interesting article about the life & trial of Andrea Yates that shows how her ongoing mental illness led to this horrible tragedy...

www.law.duke.edu...

So she was a crazed murder? Yeah. That justifies saving her.

Originally posted by Indy
So she was a crazed murder? Yeah. That justifies saving her.

The murders were unintentional as she was suffering from a paranoid delusion that the only way to save her children from Satan was to kill them. Categorizing her as a "crazed murderer" is inaccurate--read the Duke Law Journal article. Consistent with postpartum psychosis, the delusion subsided about a month afterwards. She was (and is) not harmful to anyone other than her children and herself. Obviously she can no longer harm her children.

It is unfortunate that people remain ignorant about mental illness and place blame on people who aren't in control of their actions. Executing people in this situation is not a viable solution--we are supposed to be past the ancient days of "an eye for an eye" justice, aren't we? A person can't control a paranoid delusion--the victim doesn't know they are not in touch with reality.

The stigma surrounding mental illness also makes it difficult for these people to admit they are suffering from hallucinations and to live in denial--as was the case with Yates. Her long history with mental illness--specifically her previous documented experiences with postpartum psychoses indicated that she should not have had more children or be left alone with the kids after her youngest child was born. Her husband pressured her into having more kids and the fifth child put her over the edge.

Before the killings, she was recently out of a mental institution and clearly in a state of mental distress, her father had just died, she was not speaking, she was self-mutilating, pulling out her hair creating bald spots, refusing her medication, sleeping in her clothes, having nightmares, was found unexplicably filling the bathtub up with water for no reason a few weeks earlier--she was so bad her husband suggested to her doctor that he give her electric shock therapy--yet she was left alone with her children. Her husband rushed off to work while she was despondent--the signs were all there even the day it happened and her husband ignored them. Then she methodically committed the killings because she felt that she was doing the right thing--she felt that she was a bad mother and the children would be captured by Satan if they continued to live. If she killed them, they would go to heaven and be saved.

She didn't realize that her logic was flawed until she was treated for her illness in the months after the event and the psychosis lifted. It was replaced with tremendous guilt and she wanted to be punished--although she wasn't responsible. Her feelings of guilt hampered her defense.

With evidence that infanticide is a possibility in postpartum psychosis--so much so that in Britain, all cases where mothers that evidence any postpartum disorder and kill her infant within the first year can only be convicted of manslaughter and not murder--how could this happen? And how could people still blame Yates so much so that they want her put to death... that is making this tragedy even worse...

So she was a crazed murder? Yeah. That justifies saving her.

Yeah man!
I agree infull. She is a danger to society. Stop draining tax dollars that could go to schools to support her. Just get it over with and execute her. She murdered her 5 BABIES. I'll push the button to start the injection.

Originally posted by superdude

So she was a crazed murder? Yeah. That justifies saving her.

Yeah man!

I agree infull. She is a danger to society. Stop draining tax dollars that could go to schools to support her. Just get it over with and execute her. She murdered her 5 BABIES. I'll push the button to start the injection.

SD
are you STILL ranting on about this woman???? its been a week!! calm yourself!!

angie

SD
are you STILL ranting on about this woman???? its been a week!! calm yourself!!

Oh yeah! Good to hear from you - even if you are a misguided soul. I am soooo looking forward to debating you on this issue!
So how've you been? It's been a little while. Hope all is well with you.

Originally posted by JoeDoaks
soficrow isn't this FMD problem just one of the problems of being human?

Nope. We've spread it to animals too. Looks like it caused by an infectious prion that makes actin proteins misfold - and then makes stem cells mutate. ...Point is - FMD's spread, transmission and progression can be prevented.

I read the thread you pointed to and found it interesting. However, I can't see where the 'line' should be drawn on this type thing.

Treat first - punish last. If treatment doesn't work, then you think about the options.

As pointed out, most of the prison population has some mental dysfunction- hell, they would have not been caught if they had been thinking straight.

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