What are the tangible benefits of multiculturalism?

First of all, a disclaimer: I am not in any way prejudiced against any ethnicity or culture. My question has nothing to do with anything like that. I am hoping for an honest, serious discussion, without anyone resorting to ad hominem attacks.

So, is anyone able to give a tangible benefit of multiculturalism?

Every time I question multiculturalism, someone will start using ad hominem attacks and not contribute anything worthy of discussion.

I'll risk a brief outline: I have spent time in every major city in Australia except Perth. The bigger the city, the more cultural segregation. Immigrants from vastly different cultures tend to seek out their own kind, and raise their children amongst people of their own culture, rather than trying to integrate with Westerners, the founders of the nation. This results in suburbs being populated almost entirely by people of a particular ethnic group, with very little in common with Western people. This in turn creates tension, as Westerners are viewed as "outsiders", and Westerners likewise view these cultural cliques as "outsiders".

Obviously, there is a lot of diversity amongst European people, but there are also many common threads, probably the main one being Christianity. Even though we now live in a secular society, the foundations of Western society were based upon Christian ideologies. Norwegian traditions are quite different to, say, Spanish traditions, but still have more in common than, say, Pakistani culture.

Now, before someone mentions the obvious, I am aware that not all immigrants are like this. Of course, many do integrate. But also, many don't. It makes sense - if for some reason I had to emigrate to a very different culture like Afghanistan, I would no doubt seek out other Russians or Westerners. Culture shock is a very real thing. This is why people from vastly different cultures tend to stick together when in a foreign land. The unfortunate part is when you get children being raised in a Western country, but limited to their own particular ethnic niche, due to their families, and also because it is made easy by there being already plenty of immigrated people having established their ethnic districts.

Please do not accuse me of being prejudiced. I am not. It is simply that I am from a country that does not have this policy of multiculturalism. I find that most people in the West will automatically say that multiculturalism is a good thing, but nobody can give me a clear reason why it is necessary, and how it benefits the nation, outside of "nice variety of restaurants", which is trivial. If anything, it actually seems to cause more problems: divided we fall, united we stand.

I keep hearing about Muslims living in Western countries trying to go over to join the Islamic State. These are people born and raised in the West. They have had the advantage of a higher living standard, as well many freedoms - personal, political, and religious. Yet they turn and bite the hand that feeds. Their culture is not compatible with Western culture, yet I keep hearing that the West must have multiculturalism, and everybody who questions it is branded as being prejudiced. What is with that?

So can anybody tell me how multiculturalism, as opposed to integration, is so necessary for the West?

And it is only in the West. Most countries don't feel this need to deliberately divide their cities into ethnic enclaves. And the word "diversity" seems increasingly to only apply to non-Western people, as if all European cultures are exactly the same.

I am fully prepared to be attacked and condemned for mentioning this topic. Please just remember, I am not a Westerner; I am an immigrant from Russia who has integrated as best I can into Australian society.

What about the new age notion of 'we're all one' don't you understand? Are you really saying you don't want to be apart of the fairytale magical happy candyland of rainbows that is the absorbstion of all cultures, genders and races? Shame on you.


...seriously though, remember when you were 12 and went you up to a soda fountain at a fastfood joint that had 8 or 10 different flavors, and you thought it'd be cool to mix them all together? Remember how fkin horrible that tasted? ...there you go.

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal

Integration is stifling and kills a culture. Multiculturalism without check can lead to the same thing.

There are simply some aspects of some cultures that are incompatible with our modern consensus of ethics and human morality. There are cultures with atrocious human rights records and complete intolerance for others, built right into them. To think those can be integrated or even included into an enlightened culture is naive.

There are certain standards a culture must meet before joining the rest of the world. The problem is that, by examining their flaws, we expose our own. For example, to outright deny Shariah law (which we should), we are forced to look at our own ingrained theocratic tendencies. This makes many people uncomfortable. We will never solve this until we become a secular society with no room or patience for religion or harmful cultural practices.

I used to live in London which is very multi cultural. I lived as a minority in camberwell and loved it. Greek restaurants Indian restaurants Turkish sweet shop, American fast food and a vibrant street party culture. Now I live in a small village. All white and middle class, hardly the most exciting place to live. The local pub is called the black boy. Which is the most multi cultured thing about the place.

The inevitable outgrowth of culture-shock.

Take a country boy and bring him to the city. He'll experience culture shock. In the short term, he gets home sick. In the long-term, he grows and is strengthened both from prior and new experiences mixing into a more well-rounded individual.

This is long-term planning for the species. We're mutting out, and growing up, one birth pang at a time.

a reply to: ringdingdong I was a country boy who moved to London, I couldn't wait to get back to London after a boring weekend with my parents. I moved back 7 years ago to the country and enjoy the clean air and green trees and fields

a reply to: woodwardjnr

My ideal lifestyle would be a mix of urban, rural, and suburban living around the world at sporadic intervals. To each their own.

So how do you deal with the issue of "forced multiculturalism"? Do you only let people in based on their religion? Ethnicity? Skin color?

Its human nature to want to be with people of the same cultural background.

a reply to: ringdingdong

I moved from Chicago to Wroclaw Poland and lived there for a few years. I got quite bored with the lack of diversity. At the same time, living now in Colorado I will travel thirty minutes out of my way just to go to a Polish liquor store and hear something other than English and Spanish. Also, I miss Indian food.

There isn't a right or a wrong in this argument, but whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh etc, or of any of the hundreds of different nationalities and ethnic groups, we all have more in common with eachother than you seem to believe. You know some middle easterner? Learn to say Thankyou in Farsi or Urdu or Arabic. You know a member of the tribe? Wish them a happy Yom Kippur. If you make an effort to bridge whatever gap you perceive to exist, odds are you will make a genuine friend. Multiculturalism is a blessing, and xenophobia a curse. And that goes for every culture.

a reply to: derSteppenwolf

Not sure where you picked that up, but your assumption is false.

a reply to: ringdingdong

I just hit reply to the last post. I'm lazy.

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal

I had considered starting a thread very similar to this one. It must have been out there at the edge of the ethers waiting to be posted so thank you for doing the hard part.

I will readily admit that I don't enjoy being around people that are different than me culturally. I also don't like being around people that are overly religious. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy an occasional encounter with someone different than me, but I would normally avoid ethnic neighborhoods and gatherings.

One thing I should note is that I do not enjoy parties, meetings or anyplace where there are lots of people. This isn't so much that I have anxiety about such things; I just find social interactions on a scale of more than one or two people to be physically and mentally draining.

I suppose I don't really care about having diversity or multi-culturalism in my life, but my idea of heaven would be to live in a small cabin on a frozen lake in the mountains.

I can do without most people.

Isn't Australia the perfect example of a country where immigrants totally destroyed the native culture? Maybe if there had been a bit more multiculturalism, the aboriginal people wouldn't have been treated like they were?

originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: woodwardjnr

My ideal lifestyle would be a mix of urban, rural, and suburban living around the world at sporadic intervals. To each their own.

I tended to enjoy the anonimity you get from living in a big city. No one knows you no one cares how you look or where your from there is something liberating in that, but each to their own as you say.

It seems to me that multiculturalism means
A wider choice of ethnic restaurants and clothing shops in exchange for a poorer education for your kids, less familiartity with your neighbours, a loss in sense of community and social cohesion.

Oh, you can also add more and harsher anti terror and anti fraud laws, photo ID cards, loss of freedom of expression, more crimes you can be charged with...

There should be one culture, the native one and all those coming to share in it should uphold the values that attracted them here rather than trying to destroy them.

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal
No one has ever come up with a benefit of multiculturalism other than different types of food. If that's all there is it is a bit pathetic. Food. Couldn't someone have gone to each country and learned how to make that country's food? It would have been a lot easier than to bring millions of people into your country just to have a change in diet. Anyway I am sick of all this foreign food now so you have to send all those people back. Sorry my mistake.
If anyone has missed the point I am just saying that people have to come up with a better tangible benefit than food. I am sick of that one.

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal

Personally, there are some very tangible benefits for me:

Having the honour of socialising with people from other cultural backgrounds (the learning experience and appreciation of human diversity).

May be I will get to meet a nice African girl friend (Black people I find to be very beautiful)

New Art; music, poetry, painting, culture generally.

Society is not so bland and monotonous; layers of culture interweaving to produce yet more culture.

I just like meeting people from different cultures.

Yes, I do love the old melting pot.

I am a humanist and there are no race barriers in my mind.

The more diversity the better. Only problem is exposure to one another will ultimately lead to a blurring of difference slowly through the generations and the very thing we celebrate is being slowly eroded as cultural integration develops.

I have learned so much from other cultures. I have learned more from other cultures than my own. It's great.




Look at John and Yoko! They are well in love. She from Japan and he from Liverpool, England.

What a shame because I think most people are really only curious about their fellow. There are those who make huge amounts of money from exploiting our insecurities and weaknesses. They encourage hatred and distrust because they can make their billions out of it. The gentle people will never get a chance to just live for today and in peace because anyone who shouts that message out too loud tends to get rubbed out one way or another because they are a "Spaniard In The Works" (deliberate illusion to John Lennon) and the anti-thesis of the multi billion dollar industry of the war machine.

a reply to: grumpy64 I also used to DJ at 2 bars in camberwell, playing house disco and soul music all American music culture. I quite like a KFC once in a while and jerk chicken both of which are plentiful in south east London, we also had camberwell art college, so had lots of Young British arty types who bought a bit of life and vitality to the area. A total mixed population of cultures and creeds

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal

To embrace the positive here ...

My palate has benefited greatly due to all the wonderful food ideas brought to my doorstep.

And now being blended and 'fusioned' ... we can all enjoy the simple things.

Hungry now ... !

a reply to: DeepThoughtCriminal

It's not necessary but as the world evolves/changes it is unavoidable.

Australia is slightly unique, in my personal opinion they are less accepting of multiculturalism - this is a generalisation of course.

Segregation occurs for many reasons. People like to stick with their own kind. Communication and surviving is easier.

The media pushes the idea that those born in the country are against immigration, this plants a seed in the mind of those immigrating and pushes them to stay within group.

On a personal level it falls to pieces - because mostly when we meet migrant individuals we are enlightened by their stories, different experiences, food, art etc etc



Oh and by the way - the reason you hear about Muslims wanting to join IS? That's the media firing you up and reinforcing the segregation for their own benefit. Don't fall for it.