Question for Europeans: Why Did You Willing Cede Your Sovereignty to Brussels and the EU?

originally posted by: stuthealien
we agreed to trade with europe nothing more,but the uk politicians have allowed them to take over our laws,
this is something the english people hate that europe can now decide our laws.
we hate our politicians for this and spitting on our dead of word war 2 who fought to keep british law and many gave their lifes.

the government have deliberatly delayed the vote waiting for most who served then to have died.
but we will never forget ,we want out also nothing will change on a finance level as we will still trade and we already have separate currencies .

out now give us the vote you corrupt politicians

Good grief, that was quite a rant, wasn't it? Considering the UK got a vote to join the EU (then called the Common Market) in the '70's, arguably it's a vote after a generation to see if the public still wants as close a union - many do, you may be surprised, the fact that you don't is a point you will be able to make at the referendum this government is giving and a chance both the last Labour one wouldn't promise to give and Corbyn has already said he wouldn't give.

The European Union started to bring Europe together in peace and so avoid the issues that led to both world wars, your comments on that are a little weird.

When you say 'we' you mean you and others who share your opinion, please don't feel you speak for the country - I may agree with your opinion, I may disagree with it, but you do not speak for me, only yourself.

a reply to: Metallicus

I can only speak from a UK perspective, but aside from the vote in 1975 to stay in the European Economic Community, all transference of power has been done through the backdoor via treaties signed by the governments of the day.
Of course it could easily be argued that 'the people' voted the governments in so tough luck, but the intentions of political parties to further integrate with the EU have never really been transparent during election time.

The UK is actually better off than most other EU countries.

We have opt-outs on a variety of things like the Schengen Agreement with open borders and no passport controls. It is why there are thousands of men camped at Calais in France, refusing to claim asylum there, and waiting for their chance to enter the UK illegally either through the tunnel or on ferries.
If the UK had signed up to Schengen then all of those men would be here right now as the UK would not legally be able to stop them.
We can though, lawfully defending our border where other EU nations can not.

The UK opted out of currency union which is why we still use GBP £ Sterling. The financial mess that is currently the EU mostly ain't our problem, thank #. Ireland nearly tanked out a few years ago and we bailed them with £7 Billion in loans. No requirement for the UK to do so, just our closest and most friendly neighbour so, you know.

We have an opt-out of Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union and also the Area of freedom, security and justice. I won't bore you with the details but it gives the UK government the opportunity to stick the finger at the EU over a whole host of sovereignty related issues. These include police and criminal justice legislation, and national law in the UK limiting the extent that European courts would be able to rule on issues related to 'fundamental rights'.

That said, I will be voting out of the EU in the referendum next year. It is the first opportunity I have had in my life to vote on the issue, aside from last May when I (along with 12.6% of the population) voted UKIP as a protest vote because they were the only party I could vote for which wanted out of the EU.

All we can do now is watch and wait for the arguments for and against EU membership, and discover on the day next year what the people decide.
Your OP will be a most relevant question then if my fellow countryfolk vote to stay in the EU, all I can do is hope they won't.

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
the thing that makes me laugh is, 15 years ago when we all really first started to get blogs happening and websites functional the topic of a "one" country euro under a one government was raised a few times and you were often heartily laughed at before being asked to leave the floor this had a sister theory i think it was the north and south america being joined into one country and something about a highway from canada to the bottom of south america, also the other part was south pacific made into one conglomerate of asia.
i think thats how the theory went, i cant remember.

I've got news for you about that transcontinental highway you seemed to indicate was a myth. It was an actual plan and was defeated. However, the kicker is that while it was officially defeated it is under constant construction along its route which is I-35 from Dallas south. Drive that route anytime in the last few years (since the "defeat" of that plan) and you will find that it is now a stealth plan whether the people wanted it or not. Secret governments get around, my friend.

a reply to: grainofsand

I really wondered about seeing this cherry-picking behaviour as a preferable thing. If everyone would have done so, the EU wouldn't have become.

BTW: What DO we get from having the UK in the EU? Besides blocking off financial treaties like the Stock Tax. Oh, and 1*10^10 BP per year, which is nice. But a Brexit - well, not having to deal with a needy children in the EU would be nice. "No, I don't want to tax my banksters! No, I don't want to take a share of refugees! No, I like TTIP so much because of the USA wanting it! No, blablabla".

Yeah, right.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Ooh, you sound bitter about me preferring to live in a sovereign nation as opposed to being part of the EU, why?
As you say, if you wouldn't notice us leaving, why would you care?

I have no problem with you lot staying in your union, I would equally have no problem if you started requesting my passport to travel, and only 30 day automatic visa's like Thailand and Malaysia offer us, no problem at all.

So, why do you seem so troubled with UK citizens choosing to vote out of the EU, if that is what happens next year?
What's your problem with that exactly?

*Edit*
Oh, and how is that million migrants thing going for you? Thank # we never signed up to Schengen's open borders or Merkel's stupid mistake would have affected us as well, it didn't, and that pleases me.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: grainofsand

I really wondered about seeing this cherry-picking behaviour as a preferable thing. If everyone would have done so, the EU wouldn't have become.

BTW: What DO we get from having the UK in the EU? Besides blocking off financial treaties like the Stock Tax. Oh, and 1*10^10 BP per year, which is nice. But a Brexit - well, not having to deal with a needy children in the EU would be nice. "No, I don't want to tax my banksters! No, I don't want to take a share of refugees! No, I like TTIP so much because of the USA wanting it! No, blablabla".

Yeah, right.

But, you do realise that the rest of Europe sees the EU is overtly favouring Germany, don't you? You also know the the TTIP is being pushed for BY the EU, right? I guess you are fed by your own media given their opinion - no worries, we are all entitled to an opinion. Or are we? Greece had one, didn't do it much good though.

a reply to: grainofsand

I have to admit that the U.K. did a good job of reaping most of the benefits of the E.U. without a lot of the drawbacks. In a way the U.K. politicians did a good job for their citizens at least in this case. I am sure there are many of complaints about them on other issues.

I see many of you don't feel you had a choice as citizens as this was all done by Globalist politicians. I can see the same thing happening in the U.S. and North America once the morons in power destroy our economy and have enough illegal immigration that they can basically offer it as 'the only solution'.

There are lessons to be learned from what happened in Europe to what will likely happen one day in the Americas and Asia. I hope that we can avoid the Globalization of Government, but there are very powerful a-holes that have the money and resources to destroy countries.

As far as me ceding my power to Washington...I agree that it is a similar situation. I don't like the Feds and frankly I would prefer the U.S. break up into smaller regional countries so that Government can better reflect the will of the people.

Right now there is no way that the desires of someone in N.Y or California would be the same as someone in Montana or Alabama. I am against central authority in general so most government is unwanted government for me.

a reply to: Metallicus
What you suggest will definetly promote war, isolationism and tribalism. You will no longer be recognised as "united". Great in theory but no substance in reality.

a reply to: Metallicus

I think of Brussels as 'the fed's' in the same way you do for the folk in the White House.
The referendum next year is the biggest political decision for us since 1975, and I really hope the majority vote out, as I will.
I'm not counting my chickens but I feel word on the street is looking good, but the only problem is whatever the MSM tells the masses how they should think in the next year or so.

...at least I'll be on record that I was against it all if it all goes tits up after a 'stay in' vote'.

a reply to: LaRo90

You are right. That was the original intent.

Not even close. Who the heck are you kidding? The EU was hell bent on achieving monetary and military parity with the U.S. Their main plan was to take us down. FAIL.

originally posted by: donktheclown
The EU was hell bent on achieving monetary and military parity with the U.S. Their main plan was to take us down. FAIL.

Do you really think so? Maybe this is a Brussels conspiracy I'm unaware of, but I can't see UK governments being involved in the master plan of domination of the US. My governments seem the other extreme usually, dropping to their knees with begging mouths to the US government.
...just how I see things from my little corner of England at least.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Metallicus
What you suggest will definetly promote war, isolationism and tribalism. You will no longer be recognised as "united". Great in theory but no substance in reality.

War is bad, but as far as isolationism and tribalism I am all for those things.

The less government the better.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Metallicus
What you suggest will definetly promote war, isolationism and tribalism. You will no longer be recognised as "united". Great in theory but no substance in reality.

War is bad, but as far as isolationism and tribalism I am all for those things.

The less government the better.

We share similar sentiments it seems in this thread.
I'm British, I'll never be European, similar to you being Ohioan I guess...is that a word?!

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Metallicus
What you suggest will definetly promote war, isolationism and tribalism. You will no longer be recognised as "united". Great in theory but no substance in reality.

War is bad, but as far as isolationism and tribalism I am all for those things.

The less government the better.

We share similar sentiments it seems in this thread.
I'm British, I'll never be European, similar to you being Ohioan I guess...is that a word?!

Yes, it is a word and you used it correctly!

I appreciate the response.

originally posted by: LaRo90
It's not that hard to understand really.
The big steps they take are all logical and benefit most people (trade agreements, unimpeded travel between countries). So nobody feels a need to stop them.

The taking of sovereignty is usually done in very small steps and are hardly ever reported as such in the media. Even the unification of our currency was not reported as a loss of our sovereignty. The control over the larger papers, television and radio is in the hands of the state and quite a small group of individuals. They both have the same agenda I guess.

This is a brilliant answer for you and gives a very accurate assessment of the EU to most people (i know). There are huge problems with the EU. Never mind policy etc, the simple fact is that every year they vastly exceed there budget and are then directed to trim the budgets for future years. There are repeated annual calls for fresh auditing........and the Euro MP's annually vote against anyone looking too closely at what they spend their money on.

Fundamentally, that smakcs of corruption and most Europenas (i believe) recognise this. However, as most of the EU directives are actually aimed at assisting people (as per the quoted part above), people tend to ignore the other stuff. What is a bit of corruption as opposed to 70 plus years of no European wars? (minus the Balkans, where fighting is a past time).

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: stuthealien
we agreed to trade with europe nothing more,but the uk politicians have allowed them to take over our laws,
this is something the english people hate that europe can now decide our laws.
we hate our politicians for this and spitting on our dead of word war 2 who fought to keep british law and many gave their lifes.

the government have deliberatly delayed the vote waiting for most who served then to have died.
but we will never forget ,we want out also nothing will change on a finance level as we will still trade and we already have separate currencies .

out now give us the vote you corrupt politicians

Good grief, that was quite a rant, wasn't it? Considering the UK got a vote to join the EU (then called the Common Market) in the '70's, arguably it's a vote after a generation to see if the public still wants as close a union - many do, you may be surprised, the fact that you don't is a point you will be able to make at the referendum this government is giving and a chance both the last Labour one wouldn't promise to give and Corbyn has already said he wouldn't give.

The European Union started to bring Europe together in peace and so avoid the issues that led to both world wars, your comments on that are a little weird.

When you say 'we' you mean you and others who share your opinion, please don't feel you speak for the country - I may agree with your opinion, I may disagree with it, but you do not speak for me, only yourself.

i actually said we because it is a large percentage ,when we agreed in the 70,s it was not for them to override our courts of law,that has been snuck in without the peoples consent ,but to trade freely .
as brothers not to be dictated too
does not matter at this point how much brainwashing they try with the media, we are beyond this at this point
just by them denying the vote for this many years to us the people

so yes i do speak for millions of people ,maybe not you but thanks to merkel and the mess she has created our numbers have grown even more .

we want out last count was 4 million before merkels mess so double that now

originally posted by: stuthealien

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: stuthealien
we agreed to trade with europe nothing more,but the uk politicians have allowed them to take over our laws,
this is something the english people hate that europe can now decide our laws.
we hate our politicians for this and spitting on our dead of word war 2 who fought to keep british law and many gave their lifes.

the government have deliberatly delayed the vote waiting for most who served then to have died.
but we will never forget ,we want out also nothing will change on a finance level as we will still trade and we already have separate currencies .

out now give us the vote you corrupt politicians

Good grief, that was quite a rant, wasn't it? Considering the UK got a vote to join the EU (then called the Common Market) in the '70's, arguably it's a vote after a generation to see if the public still wants as close a union - many do, you may be surprised, the fact that you don't is a point you will be able to make at the referendum this government is giving and a chance both the last Labour one wouldn't promise to give and Corbyn has already said he wouldn't give.

The European Union started to bring Europe together in peace and so avoid the issues that led to both world wars, your comments on that are a little weird.

When you say 'we' you mean you and others who share your opinion, please don't feel you speak for the country - I may agree with your opinion, I may disagree with it, but you do not speak for me, only yourself.

i actually said we because it is a large percentage ,when we agreed in the 70,s it was not for them to override our courts of law,that has been snuck in without the peoples consent ,but to trade freely .
as brothers not to be dictated too
does not matter at this point how much brainwashing they try with the media, we are beyond this at this point
just by them denying the vote for this many years to us the people

so yes i do speak for millions of people ,maybe not you but thanks to merkel and the mess she has created our numbers have grown even more .

we want out last count was 4 million before merkels mess so double that now

You don't speak for me regardless of my opinions, you speak for nobody apart from you unless you are an elected member of parliament as far as I'm aware. Not really interested in the rest of your rhetoric as it's just your own opinion spouting off, with soundbites from UKIP thrown in regardless of their actual accuracy, sorry, save it for people who can't be bothered to test the claims against actual facts.

a reply to: uncommitted

since when did the elected officials speak for the people ,come to my town and i will show the elected officials avoiding the people,


i guess you mean the elected officials voting to keep the tampon tax as speaking for the people too

a reply to: uncommitted

The latest Ipsos-Mori poll (for what they are worth!) shows 42% - 41% in favour of leaving as to staying........so too close to really call at the moment.

I am something of a rarity politically in the UK in that generally speaking I am a Conservative (Left wing Tory) in favour of Europe - yes, some of us actually do exist!

Frankly, Europe can be a complete and utter pain in the a$*! at times but i firmly believe that we are better together. Aside from anything, 2 nations now have populations greater than our entire continent - we need to group together to compete. We also need to accept the reality that many anti EU stories in UK media are simply made up, or at best misinterpretated.

a reply to: Flavian

we are better being trading partners not europe deciding our laws,and those statistics not even close to the truth,
we are better being friends not being dictated too