The Thread that Changed the World?

In the novel Ender's Game, Ender's two siblings hold the world's attention by posting on 'the net' with psuedonyms. Orson Scott Card placed them in the position of actually leading world thought by their insightful writings.

Does anyone believe that web postings will ever be any kind of center for world thought?

Will the next Abe Lincoln be viewed as having more street-cred if he's got ten or twenty years of web-eloquence?

Do you personally post in the hopes that your postings will live on or perhaps affect others perhaps in a global sense?

I am honestly curious.

I read Ender's Game many years ago, and I enjoyed it immensely. My dream growing up had always been to pilot a mech, and so that novel was perfect for me at the time I read it. Your question intrigued me though, so I'd better answer it.

I'll use the analogy of novel writers, but it applies equally well to other 'public informers.' Some people write for popular markets, they follow trends and hope to increase readership by clever marketing. Other writers are craftsmen who are in it for the joy of creation, their only wish is to craft a superior work and release it for the enjoyment of others. I am the second type, I write fiction because I love to craft a story.

Those who write for money alone will focus exclusively on the plot and accompanying demographic, combined with market surveys and trend analysis, while I sit at home, day after day fiddling with a sentence to find the smoothest verbiage, or reading old stories and asking myself WWKD (What Would Kafka Do?). Hacks make money, real writers don't. It's a rule as old as time. The only payment a real writer receives is the satisfaction of a job well done, and perhaps an entry in the logbook of history; a sort of road bump on humanity's path into the future.

The pseudonym can work to a writer's advantage, or it can hamper efforts to be taken seriously. Oftentimes handles convey a sort of criminality in the mainstream publishing world, it sounds silly but it's true. I do hope that some people preserve these records of discussion, because valuable information is bantered about, and the human species deserves as much information about the world as it can learn. Our performance on an evolutionary scale is fairly promising so far, and given a few million more years I could really see us going places.

One problem with speaking your mind on the net, even with a pseudonym - There are those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Say I wanted to propose a new style of government and a radical alteration to life as we know it, in the name of fairness, efficiency, and public cooperation. The reaction would be harsh, and I could feasibly be 'suicided' and the matter dropped. Or, if my death is an unwarranted risk, in the eyes of whatever 'They' I've offended, They would just take over my identity, ruin my credibility, wipe me out financially, and wash their hands of the whole affair. I think the best case scenario would involve being ignored, defamed by anyone profiting from straight capitalism, and becoming immediately surrounded with less than savory 'Picket Mates' like communists and nationalists. It ends badly any way you slice it. Nobody is filling the role of "Knowledge Bringer" because we're all so afraid of getting 'disappeared.' Or worse yet..crucified.

If I were to write anything remotely inspiring and forward looking, I would sincerely hope to find it survived me, and spread some common sense to the common man. With written words, my legacy can chip away at whatever tyranny arises, even though my voice is turned to dust. It also means that some part of your mind remains in the minds of others, which gives me hope for a lot of reasons.

By the way, good post! I hope you get many insightful responses that aren't quite so rambling as mine. When speaking about things like the future of mankind, I tend to suffer from diarhea of the mouth.

Thanks WO.

Ender's Game is a great novel. I imagine the question ties in to Stephenson and others who talk about how individuals might use 'futuristic' communications to move the world's opinions.

Personally, I see mass media as a sort of attention-hogging-mime in everyone's face, gestuculating, stripping naked, doing whatever it takes to keep people from really learning or thinking. Fear Factor anyone?

Until a particular society values ideas collectively, I doubt such ideas will take shape. I wonder if there ever will be another "great communicator" like Abe Lincoln in this era of the web. I rather think he'd have to publish a book and get on Oprah.

i think it has already begun man. theres a ton of hard coherent infomation on the net that is unattainable anywhere else. hell this very site contains the most insightful analysys of occurances ive ever been privy too. screw capitol hill ATS is where its at!

ATS is where its at!

It sure is pretty cool. I'm new to ATS but I see that the 'bigboard' list ranks it 516th. Are there other more intellectually fertile message boards where that kind of world-changing thread would be likely to grow?

Can it be said that in the evolution of any 'Change the World' thread, a number of message boards would have to be involved and those threads would have to be consolidated into a website that identifies and analyzes the thread? This has been done with threads like Titor and such, but I am not sure if this is an example of what Card was after.

The whole idea of the 'net' influencing masses of humans as in Ender's Game may be just fiction. If so, I'd say it's sad that when we were all given a voice to talk to one another, we didn't do it.

Perhaps Card is not the only sci-fi writer to drastically overestimate the desire of humans to know truth.

Well, here it is my first ever post on ATS.

Ahh, good times, good times.

The other day I was with my cousin and she said, "What you are describing sounds like Demosthenes and whatshername from Ender's Game!"

Full circle.

But I guess there is no thread that changes the world. But there can be posts that change the world?

Ender's Game is a great book. But my favorite book from Card is "Folk of the Fringe", a collection of post apocalyptic American tales. The funny part about that mormonic book, is that one of the stories involves some sort of holy Quetzalcoatl type of messiah coming out to unite Mexico and America, Seems logical, but the drug war between now and then would be brutal. Hmm, I may bounce this thread again in a few years if need be.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Are there other more intellectually fertile message boards where that kind of world-changing thread would be likely to grow?

I found the answer to my question. The answer was, yes but the TOC means we don't talk about them. Then I went to those forums and they said not to talk about ATS. Now I realize why they keep the fences up and do not talk about other forums: It's all for the Clickles(tm) and the IP sector is now a gamespace of epoch proportions and dollars.

But the intellectual fertility of any space, can be improved with the proper tilling?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Well, here it is my first ever post on ATS.

Ahh, good times, good times.

The other day I was with my cousin and she said, "What you are describing sounds like Demosthenes and whatshername from Ender's Game!"

I think what is funny, is that if anything like Ender's Game were to happen, there would be obviously certain threads, where the Internet of the future would be, played like a harp? So to speak?

And the plucking of those threads/strings, might cause such painful vibes of such a keen and destructive nature, that the harp itself would quiver and perhaps even throw off, the plucker?

So you have to learn on these Internets, how not to be a mean plucker. Nobody likes getting plucked against their will or their TOC. They may just tell you to "pluck off".

Haha, yeah. But really, the whole end game of all this DoD stuff will be the John Galtian Global Microphone. And of course we know where the major command and control info centers of webossity are forming now. Where do you go for cutting edge analysis of current events? What voices will be heard there?

Ah yes, let us consider that ultimate Superman of the 1970's, Howard Beale. The man for all seasons.

Well in the end, Howard is a tool. And if he had not been a tool, he would have been killed, as they explain in the film, you either have to play ball or you are not allowed into the stadium. And yet, the common networks are often the most effective, and you cannot keep the commoners out of common networks.



New Smiley?:

Yes, there is an Internet meme floating about these days. It is the idea of "the nobody".

Well yeah I don't need to tell you where to look for that thread, on the IP network. Go to the goverrments thread and hang a left.

Anyway, the general idea of that particular thread was that there is some nobody somewhere, who could be the guy to somehow swing the world t'wards a better state of being. Of course, "better" is subjective. But the essence is that this one unknown man had earned some respects or power from the Illuminati, whatever that means.

Well, right from the get go, I decided to pump that thread chock full o' goodness. Now it is a bloated bot-fest, but the damage has been done, either you believe that man is out there, or you do not.

Now, it wasn't just me in that thread, ripping it out of OP's hands, and then running it up the wall. No, there were others. But it was a lot of fun. I mean I chose that thread to really just run wild. When the OP said the nobody was gonna be killed, I posted the Kaiser Sose video in seconds. I was all over that dude. I mean I am very proud of my work there. Then page 322 I totally ruled by posting all buncha Skull and Bones scathing critique, no comeback from them in the thread. Haha, then look for the Chevrolet engine sizes, pages 396, 409, and I think 502 have me on them. Haha, good times. And early on in the thread I equated the idea that page #s could be seen as years. But I didn't exploit that until around page 1100 or so when I started to build the foundation to take the thread up to page 2012 and make each page relevant to that year in history, so I planned for page 1209, where of course the talmudic Barons overthrew the King for their Parliament, and wouldn't you know it? That particular domain got so upset at my skillset that they baned me!

Damn it's like Bruce Jenner getting kicked off the track for running too fast. No thanks Dorothy Hamill, we don't need your triple axle double lulz in this thread! Sad really.

Well anyway, that thread was a great one, and when people ask me about conspiracy, I tell them to read it because I put all the good stuff in there. I mean it's like finding the peanuts in poo, but if you pick your spots you can really create some great vibes on the IP network.

Thank God the Great Forum on the Internet, ATS, will always be here for me to come back and reflect! Oh like the warmest of hot tubs, this place!

So any other epic conspiracy threads out there? U2U me because it's not cool to post that here, thanks.

Well they unbanned me at that other domain and I could oump up that thread some more, but nah. I think I might resist the urge to do so.

OR MAYBE NOT, haha, because really, this idea I have built that when a thread gets to page 1209, and it reaches critical mass, is brillient, I hope you have eyes to see.

Because, Magna Carta was the victory of the Barons. But who were they? And what did they do? Haha, I just had a movie-deja where a line from a movie pops into your head. I thought of the line from Kindergarten Cop, "Who is youah daddy and what does he do?" HA that A. Schwarztneggar is one of the finest comedians of our time.

Anyway, feel free to use the term "movie-deja" to refer to that feeling when some snippet of dialogue pops into your head. It happens to me all the time, because I am a huge knower and lover of movie. Me and movie go waaaay back.

So when is the Ender's Game movie comin out? I heard the DoD tells their new recroots to do as Elron advised and "Read the book!" Oh man I crack myself up, lolz all day. Yeah, read the book.

But in the book, what were the names of the characters again? Someone can please quote the relevant passages where the online world is manipulated by invisible persons-anon under other names?

It's funny because I bet there are actually famous people who wish with all their might, that they could be anon, and dominate that gamespace. They wish, like Dilbert himself, to break out of their fame-grid. Hmm, and see the price they pay, when they try to play in the gamespace?

Ender Wiggin was prehaps some dochbag in IRC telling people to fire their lasor? No, he wouldn't be that either. Hmm yes I am seeing this book Ender's Game as being one of the key texts of the future. Along with another book by the author, "Folk of the Fringe", one of my favorites.

Oh those Mormons! They're a hoot! And good preppers with love for the womenfolk. I respect them, as an American. I think Orson Scott Card and also Robert Heinlein have much to offer, and I hope all Mormons, preppers and sci-fi fans alike will begin weekly book-study (if you will) of Ender's Game, Folk of the Fringe, and let's say, "Friday" by Robert Heinlein. Yes, that'll do nicely.

As for "the nobody" or whomever is supposed to be out there secretly doing good, I think he agrees with me and I invite him or anyone who 'is feeling it', to post in my humble thread here, which was my first on ATS, so I sure hope it doesn't get deleted or moved because I took a lot of time time sewing these cheeks together and you must let me savor it, hahaha oh hahahaha until my sides hurt. The future looks SWEET! Oh I mean the past.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Well they unbanned me at that other domain and I could oump up that thread some more, but nah. I think I might resist the urge to do so.

Welp I began tapping on the 'nobody' thread again and got ban hammered. Lame how these ICANN participants act, isn't it? They prefer revenue-generating crap, to efficient, salient truth. I guess it really is touchy. Truth I mean. People are scared of it as a balloon filled with air is scared of a prick.

Well, ahhh, good old ATS is always around, and probably will last 1000 years give or take a few centuries.

That's why I made this thread, my first thread ever, on any conspiracy website. Yep, I had a feeling that of all the registered ICANN conspiracy domain choices in 2005 (not many), that building a body of work required a strong foundation.

So my original question in my original post years ago, is now even more valid:

Can the concepts in Ender's Game, of a handful of people with psuedonym identities, end up controlling the discussion topics of the day, globally? I think that answer is yes, the Ender's Game modality, has been proven true in a way. But who is the real Demosthenes and who is the fake one?

Therefore, since the PTB are obviously creating and recruiting a whole generation of Enders v1.0 and planning enders v2.0 as well, can we average street level humans, finally get hold of this thing called Internet Protocol, as a people, before they run it right off the cliff?

I will probably use this thread in the future, to compare two very good books (keeping it on topic with my original post as per the ToC):

1: Ender's Game (by LDS adherent Orson Scott Card)
2: Starship Troopers (by free thinker Robert Heinlein)

Because you may be surprised at how similar these two men think!

Shall we play a game? Hahaha, can't wait for this thread to go to 100 pages but will it be allowed or will it be deleted? And if it be deleted, will Google have it backed up? Because really, all I am doing here is posting a book review over the course of several yearsm while the events of that book, become true. I don't think there's ever been a thread like this one. Or that one.

Blogs have already changed the world as recent event's in the Near East have proven. Egypt, and even the protest in Iran have shown what internet blogging can do. Blogging has even bankrupted newspapers as the new form of information gathering for the masses.

Originally posted by Golithion
Blogs have already changed the world as recent event's in the Near East have proven. Egypt, and even the protest in Iran have shown what internet blogging can do. Blogging has even bankrupted newspapers as the new form of information gathering for the masses.

Okay, "blogs".

Yeah you know, I was on Internets in the days of 300 baud modems and BBS, and it's like, "blogs" to me, are lame. I mean, it's so self serving, like here is my opinion on the days events! Come to my registered ICANN domain name or slice of same, to hear my particular take on each and every day's events!

Then when you have a blog-post, the only place to discuss the blog, is the comments. DAMN you toobe proves how screwed up the whole "comments" legacy can be! Have you seen some of the hateful tripe people put in their youtube comments? Nah, even my own humble toobe channel is mostly comment free, and I prefer it that way, I don't post you toobe videos to provoke comments, mainly because their commenting system and commenting systems as a body, are crap. Hence, blogs are crap.

WIKI is what works, and they had one here, a great one, which has been silenced. [playing taps slowly... verrrry slowly... hang on the last note...] My own personal user page on tinwiki was deleted, but fortunately I saved a copy, now where is a similar site where I can post such amazing collection of conspiracy knowledge? Tinwiki we will never forget thee!

Nah, I say the blog model is like one dude talks into the microphone, then everyone mails in their response. No, I prefer the domain-thread based idea, where you step up to a microphone which is provided by some intelligence gathering institution and you defeat them with their own tech. Nobody ever thought these conspiracy microphones were "free" though the registrants seem to claim it is so. Therefore I do not hate the registrant who makes a conspiracy destination, I just try to guide them toward a better way.

With a blog, let's say I have a position. Then my neighbor has his own blog, where he holds the opposite opinion to mine. Therefore where does the debate between he and I, happen? And where does it happen in such a way that anyone can present a comprehensive reply, within the stream of our argument? No, this cannot happen in our blogs, unless we are stupidly commenting back and forth on the others blog or youtoobe video. See? That's lame.

You are right, however, blogs have replaced mainstream news, so I am not disagreeing and I thank you for your reply. I would simply ask you this: Since blogs are promoted and tinwikis are destroyed (either by spamming trolls which make the upkeep untenable, or by censorbear) than does this imply that there is a shaping-force, within the IP domain?

It is said, that people can make their living off a blog. Therein lies the key, because IP was not built on money as the principle, but on more of a Christlike principle, of sharing and giving to the least, the same as the top. See, Internet Protocol is the new church, it is a true church unlike all these other churches. There are no tiers to IP. Rich man gets on and its the same as the homeless dude at the library. It is the exact template for the kingdom of God. Total equality of voice. And so therefore, people who try to make money off it (Money is not a Christlike concept), will always tend to be lamer, than those who use IP simply for truth. I use it for truth, not for moneymaking scams. I had an IP based business back around 1996 or so when Google bought Dejanews and Amazon was rising I shut the damn thing down. It was at that time that spam and viruses really took off and so you have good-money versus bad-money aka Feds versus Gangsters, and only now, are they really circling the waterhole.

Once the Goldbugs valued Farcebook at billions of dollars, the old world died. I knew this would happen, but I am not alone. There are many smart people on the IP domain. And very few of them write blogs or try to make a nickle off IP. Some of us are purists, haha. So it one stupid domain on IP worth billions? Or is it worth 5 bucks at godaddy? Haha, the proof as they say, is in the puddin.

I was commenting to a coworker the other day and I said, "Well, even if every person on Facebook is a moron, it's a gigantic army of pyrposeful morons and eventually they will vote in their government via Facebook accounts." ...The dude just laughed nervously and changed the subject. Hmm, no but really, does Facebook have blogs on their site? And if so, I bet those blogs would be worth millions --like that Huffingtown gal who made her blog and link-link-link business scheme, into a nicely padded nest. I bet she tithes to the DoD, or if not, she should!

Hey Golithon, I tend to rant, and I am sorry, your point was correct and I thank you. Yes, blogs are something, I don't know what, but they are something. But books and threads based on books (like my humble thread here) will probably be the best vehicle for discussion. Have you read Ender's Game, or Starship Troopers, or Friday or Folk of the Fringe? Those four books would be the primer for participation in this thread, if I were to lay down ground rules. Or if you like, post your blog link or one you think is relevant. Thanks buddy.

reply to post by smallpeeps


My bad GD, I thought I was trying to say that web posting will be a vehicle for meaningful conversation Dadgum if this dumb ass redneck didn't get it.

Originally posted by Golithion
My bad GD, I thought I was trying to say that web posting will be a vehicle for meaningful conversation Dadgum if this dumb ass redneck didn't get it.

Exactly.

I think.

Anyway, thanks. and sorry that I ramble.

Hey, anybody who has read the book I mentioned in the original post, can feel free to comment.

Do you think blogs are better than a single thread on a forum?

And if you say that threads are the better truth-medium, (as I argued in my rant above) then what about threads on some ban-happy forum where they forbid you from participating in a thread (via banning) just because they get all pissy? Thank ye godlike spirits for stable domain with reliable and moderate keel such as ATS! So long as you are civil, you shall not usually be banned. Whereas other domains will allow participation but then call it 'stalking' when you try to outclever their ban!

So in a way, the superior mod crew at ATS, serves the argument that says threads are superior to blogs. Because in a way, a person's body of work within a chosen domain, is like a participatory blog, of a sort.

Anyway, as in Ender's Game, I think there are a few verbal players in the gamespace. Wyrdsmiths, if you will. But then even these gifted shills for their own causes, would do well to be humble, for how many languages are there? Let's say there are 100 main languages. And can't there be a supreme wyrd-smith for each language respectively and so therefore wouldn't the sum total of supreme wyrd-smiths of Earth still produce a group of 100 "bests" at speaking their own language? And wouldn't that 100 not be able to talk to each other? Yes, so it is folly to be so amazed at words. Vow of silence also has merit, and the quietest voices are often the most important.

Oh so the conspiracy would be: Domains that mess wioth threads so that they DON'T change the world, which otherwise, they would do. So, I just wanted to keep on topic and identify the conspiracy, so as to obey the ToC of ATS. [salutes]

Well I bounced the nobody thread with one post and got banned again. Haha, these moderators on other domains are so funny.

I have to wonder out loud, though, if anyone on the Internet is discussing the "Ender's Game Internet Steering Meme" as I have described in my Original Post above, my first thread on ATS.

I think I will be using this thread to discuss not only Ender's Game, but also another great book I mentioned above, "Folk of the Fringe", which is by the same author, Orson Scott Card, but which is a different view of the future.

Unlike Ender Wiggin's world, the "Fringe Folk" world is a post apocalypse hell hole America. In 'Fringe' Card shows us how future people might survive with out Internet. In 'Ender's Game' he shows us how we might not survive, even WITH Internet.

Take your pick I guess, huh? Seems to me like the powers of ICANN and DoD and the money makers off domain registrations and marketing IP to hell, would all prefer to wreck the Internet, rather than lose control of it.

Yet, the guy fawkes mask has its appeal. But who are the voices on the Internet which really light fires in the minds of men and women? Who are the unique minds who speak in the IP gamespace? I mean when I get into voice chat it's like Shamu doing a belly flop into the wading pool. Yet I still yearn for some intelligent voice to perform some similar shenanigans for truth.

I would post some clips here from Hollywodd movies like Demolition Man and Equilibrium and Aeon Flux (all great movies), where we see templates for the future as "above ground" and "below ground" existences, but what's the point? Damn you toobe lawyers say they own the future and all depictions.

I am thinking of suing Paramount for their failure to produce good Star Trek materials. Class action suit which says that Paramount does not pwn the future. Give us more Trek you bastards, my lawsuit will say in a roundabout way. Who's with me? I mean can you feel me when I say that the present and the future are being stolen? I am clearly identifying a conspiracy here with my multi-year posting strategy, hopefully you can see how far we've fallen even since 2005. I do believe the Internet is meant to be destroyed once they have all of us shackled by it, so if you want a different future, then post here and let's discuss it! Don't use some stupid blog comments, that's for your Huffingtowns and know-nothings. Instead, post your ideas here at Above Top Secret, greatest domain in the wurld! I am sure the ATS servers and their contents will be around in 125 years or so when the Star Trek timeline is supposed to begin. I just hope we can avoid the total nuclear war that Kirk and Spock emerge from. Roddenberry said we need CHAO for the ORDO of Spock and Kirk. But perhaps we can skip the CHAO and go straight to the ORDO? I guess someone will say it doesn't work that way, but I think we could at least try since we have the template ahead of time, whereas the particpants in the Star Trek universe, did not have the TV show about their own universe, they did not have hindsite. But Star Trek is at once, a cautionary tale, and a horrific fantasy.

Hmm, Roddenberry, Card, Heinlein... We gots some footures to contemplate!

what's the point of making me an internet legend in the conspiracy theory community ? (timetard traveller.)

maybe with luck i'll have some groupie (females) ^^

and don't forget, i keep it gangsta, and why should i change that ? f0ck you all m0therf0ckers trying to change time.

say what, say what ?

Originally posted by therealoverdose
what's the point of making me an internet legend in the conspiracy theory community ? (timetard traveller.)

maybe with luck i'll have some groupie (females) ^^

and don't forget, i keep it gangsta, and why should i change that ? f0ck you all m0therf0ckers trying to change time.

say what, say what ?

Hmm, not sure if your post was meant to have a meaning?

Thanks anyway for bumping my thread here. Let's hope you will return to explain your point, assuming you have one!

In the meantime, as for time travel, I would say that the fine films "Back to the Future" are a good place to start. Obey Doc Brown's rule of not bumping into yourself.

Anyway, I wonder if Ender's Game could become true, and the world could be guided by a generally anarchic-creative truth seekers under pseudonyms?

Ender's Game is a great novel, I wish people would discuss it here. I know there's probably a bunch of threads where the novel is mentioned, but it's the first one I read where young people using psuedonyms are the true drivers of the planet. I felt when I read that book, that I was seeing a future blueprint, sadly.

Well, now you have the DoD salivating over a future army of drone-piloting children?

Anyway, like I mentioned above, there is the 'nobody' concept which I've put a lot of energy into. I liked that thread, and have pumped a lot of energy into it in the past few months. Lots of peanuts in that thread. But then they ban me when I got real good. It's like they'll pitch to you and then they'll walk you. That's how I view it. These domains for "trooth" and conspiracy debunking, they're really only useful to humanity, if they are pressed into service.

Well anyway, I'm not much of a fan for when Anonymous encourages kids to DDOS some IP. That ain't right. Little Ender Wiggin is not firing his lasor. He's kicking ass and learning to fly drones, so be good kiddies, and got yourselves that DoD spot of the future. Who knows, maybe you'll end up talking to aliens on behalf of the human race like little Ender Wiggin.

One final point about domaynz these days and how they really try hard to prop up their own fences betwixt them, disallowing "forum wars" and such --what nonesense be these forum warz. What a stupiud concept, that of a "forum war".. Haha, it is an affront to war itself. Be there bodies which result from said forums wars? If not, the STFU and let truth rise and IP will be the hang glider we all ride.

Yes, like the Ewok, we will soar high above the Imperial Douchetroops below us. Picture the future my firends, and then make it so. I hope I have helped you believe at least, that there is one person out there, who will hold the center of truth. I can only hope the Ender Wiggins of the future will be good kids.

Merry Christmas booger