American Muslims raise more than $100,000 for families of San Bernardino shooting victims

a reply to: Kapusta

Good show. It's a wonder that people keep wondering why Muslims aren't speaking out against extremism. Clearly their eyes aren't open.

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So Muslims didn't just recently kill a bunch of people in a terrorist attack? or are we still going to call it workplace violence?

What does that have to do with Obama and/or these particular Muslims donating to support the victims of the attack? Are you trying to suggest that all Muslims believe exactly the same things or something?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: jheated5
Probably funded by the Obama administration (our tax dollars) as damage control....

And with one graphic you have perfectly encapsulated so much of ATS - nice one!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So Muslims didn't just recently kill a bunch of people in a terrorist attack? or are we still going to call it workplace violence?

What does that have to do with Obama and/or these particular Muslims donating to support the victims of the attack? Are you trying to suggest that all Muslims believe exactly the same things or something?

Obama jumped the gun and his administration still won't call it radical islam, what's giving a few bucks gonna do but give them a good image until another attack like this happens?

Yes Muslims do believe the same things, Is it not in black and white in their holy books?

Yeah and having the crime scene tampered with within 48 hrs after the incident, nope not suspicious at all!

originally posted by: jheated5

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So Muslims didn't just recently kill a bunch of people in a terrorist attack? or are we still going to call it workplace violence?

What does that have to do with Obama and/or these particular Muslims donating to support the victims of the attack? Are you trying to suggest that all Muslims believe exactly the same things or something?

Obama jumped the gun and his administration still won't call it radical islam, what's giving a few bucks gonna do but give them a good image until another attack like this happens?

They are TRYING to do this so that people such as yourself stop lumping them together with all the hateful extremists. Apparently it isn't working.

Yes Muslims do believe the same things, Is it not in black and white in their holy books?

It is as black and white as the Christian bible. How many interpretations of that are there? Yea, exactly.

Yeah and having the crime scene tampered with within 48 hrs after the incident, nope not suspicious at all!

What does this have to do with Muslims donating money to victims?

originally posted by: jheated5

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So Muslims didn't just recently kill a bunch of people in a terrorist attack? or are we still going to call it workplace violence?

What does that have to do with Obama and/or these particular Muslims donating to support the victims of the attack? Are you trying to suggest that all Muslims believe exactly the same things or something?

Obama jumped the gun and his administration still won't call it radical islam, what's giving a few bucks gonna do but give them a good image until another attack like this happens?

Yes Muslims do believe the same things, Is it not in black and white in their holy books?

Yeah and having the crime scene tampered with within 48 hrs after the incident, nope not suspicious at all!

Funny enough I know quite a few Christians and can't say a single one follows Leviticus to the letter (or for that matter any other part of the Bible).

originally posted by: jheated5

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So Muslims didn't just recently kill a bunch of people in a terrorist attack? or are we still going to call it workplace violence?

What does that have to do with Obama and/or these particular Muslims donating to support the victims of the attack? Are you trying to suggest that all Muslims believe exactly the same things or something?

Obama jumped the gun and his administration still won't call it radical islam, what's giving a few bucks gonna do but give them a good image until another attack like this happens?

Yes Muslims do believe the same things, Is it not in black and white in their holy books?

Yeah and having the crime scene tampered with within 48 hrs after the incident, nope not suspicious at all!

What exactly do we believe ? I am curious since you seem to have an understanding.

Humbly i ask this question.

I'm Agnostic but last time I checked Christians haven't been lobbing off peoples heads lately for one.....

Nice gesture but I don't like the lie being spun that the doctor was unaware it was a Muslim who did the attack. Who is he trying to fool?

It is a safe assumption that he would have researched the crime, what happened and who was affected to help allocate the money accordingly. If he did this without seeing the word Muslim being portrayed in the media then he has access to a form of media that no other has.

Great gesture just no need whatsoever to deny knowledge he was Muslim. It ruins the validity of the purpose for me . It's very unlikely he got all this funding/knowledge through word of mouth alone.

originally posted by: jheated5
I'm Agnostic but last time I checked Christians haven't been lobbing off peoples heads lately for one.....

Well you said all Muslims belief the same thing, in your world this must mean they all doing this? Since there are over 1.5 Billion Muslims world wide I am amazed any one still has a head attached.

Either that they are really just individuals good and bad with their own beliefs, politics , morals Etc. Naw, that sounds like actually having to think about it, lets just lump them all together in the 'Evil Muslim' box.

a reply to: Macenroe82

Its nothing to do with the book itself, but the people one trusts to translate and interpret it. Ignorance, the inability to do for oneself, what others might do badly, or maliciously, what might lead them to prey on one, or have power over one, that is what needs combating most vigorously.

You see, this terrorism issue is not simple, and as Einstein once said, things must be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. The idea that there is but one path a person might take, which leads them to sign up with a dangerous sect of death worshipers, is false. The people who are involved with terrorism all over the world have different stories behind them, and different goals ahead of them.

Let me give you a few examples of how a person might become radicalised.

For a start, you have those who were always on the cusp of doing something horrible to someone else anyway. The psychotics, the genuine, died in the wool, born not made murderers. These are people who would have done for fun, what they do under the banner of their given patron. They are rare, but not as rare as you think. These people never had a conscience, and given a banner to march under, feel much better about themselves, think themselves more than the monsters we know they are, or worse yet, that they are monsters and that being such a thing is something to be proud of.

Then you have your addicts, easily lead, whose motivations are all too obvious, but kept a dirty secret from the world. They make great cannon fodder, because it takes them longer than most, to realise that they are dead once the death blow is dealt. The promise of their poison of choice in return for the shedding of blood, may not have occurred to them as a decent deal at one time in their life, but between the propaganda, and the numbing effect of the drugs they either were, or are on... Well... They would hardly be the first fighting force to be driven by chemistry rather than idealism.

Then you have the orphans. Those whose parents, siblings, entire families sometimes, have been wiped out by the actions of "the enemy". You see, by having so many enemies, IS can rally people wronged by a plethora of foes, to their cause. Afghan, Iraqi, Yemeni, Libyan, Palestinian, no matter their origin, the story of the orphan is one which leaves those who conform to that paradigm RIPE for abuse. Lost a father? Here's a new one, and guess what? He has a bloody great big rifle, and kills the people who killed your old one! Sounds about right to a little orphan boy or girl, who misses their family terribly and has no one to teach them right from wrong. Stockholm syndrome personified, these individuals have no idea that the rest of the world cries for them as much as they do for anyone else, because they never SEE that. All they see, all they are allowed to see, is the devastation wrought against their communities, and are shown a big target, a whole nation, continent, or hemisphere of the globe to focus their rage upon.

There is another subgroup within the orphan segment. The confused orphan. They saw their fathers, mothers, brothers and whole families, consumed with one or another militancy from an early age, and thought it normal. They never had a childhood the way you and I had one, they merely helped lug ammo crates and boxes of grenades, helped sort ammo by size, collect useful loot from battlefields and the dead, and had no hope of being anything else than what they became. None the less, they are as dangerous, if not more so, than anyone else.

Then you have the brainwashed. Basically conscripts, taken up by forces rolling through their lands, and beaten, broken, psychologically manhandled until their own identities are nothing to them, and all that remains is violence and torment. These can become either true believers, fanatics to the core, identifying only with the chaos which gave birth to their current identity, or mindless drones, going through the motions beaten into them over a period of years, obeying the voice of their abusers, purely because it is the done thing, and the consequences of failure are harsh. They may even believe in no god, no heaven, or hell, but believe that if they do as instructed, there will be no torture, no beatings, no abuse on a given night.

Then you have the travellers, those who have seen wrong done to those who worship the same way, and believe, from the comfort of their western abodes, that something must be done to prevent the west from continuing what ABSOLUTELY IS an unjust prosecution of war against a religion, against a whole region, with piecemeal bombings taking out more civilians than combatants, with more infrastructure being destroyed than enemy compounds... They allow reality to become secondary to their view of things, and go to places like Syria on fools errands, to die without reason.

And finally, you have the businessman. The businessman characteristic is personified by the knowledge that right or wrong, the best team to be on, is the one which is winning today, in the moment. They will trade their honour, their dignity, pretty much anything they have, in order to stay alive, and by so doing maximise the amount of profit they can make. They know that being in a position of power, no matter how lowly, allows them to make trades they might have been unable to make without that power, and they know the better they get at it, the more power they will get. In turn, they know they will make better trades with that newfound power and so on, and so forth. Master manipulators, they are tolerated by those above them, because they know how useful these individuals can be. Driven by profits, not prophets, these people are essentially mercenary by nature, and indeed, some are actual mercenaries, working for different warlords depending on who remains alive to pay them, or who will pay them the most.

Now... I should point out, that none of these positions are justifications for what we see, just explanations which fit the evidence, the situations from which IS draws its membership. As for how the precise mechanism of the propaganda and its effects on each subgroup work... Well, those things differ person to person, and the recruiters know that, and the canniest amongst them, I suspect, split their new intake up into different categories, the better to apply specific propaganda, specialised to the psychopathology of the individual conscript or volunteer.

Largely speaking, I doubt the intake method differs too wildly in essence from gang initiation in western nations. Wear the colours, know your enemy, obey your master, ad infinitum, until those things are all that is known, and all that is thought about. Provide role models to the lonely, money to the avaricious, drugs to the addled, and merely provide targets for the genuinely murderous. Again, this is only how I see it, and the reality on the ground is probably much more complicated and involved than even the rundown I gave above. Much, much more complicated.

However, this is more thought than anyone who subscribes to Fox News has ever given the matter, and so I submit it for the perusal of the members here.

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So Muslims didn't just recently kill a bunch of people in a terrorist attack? or are we still going to call it workplace violence?

That's not at all what I said.

I said it was silly for you to try and pin the fact that good hearted Muslims raised money for the victims, on some weird plan Obama came up with to use taxpayer funded money.

And no 'muslims' did not do anything. Some radical religious fanatics did. I don't care what religion they subscribe to.

Plenty of white christian guys have shot up schools and churches among other things the last few years and you don't hear anybody say let's start banning Christians now do ya?

~Tenth

originally posted by: jheated5
I'm Agnostic but last time I checked Christians haven't been lobbing off peoples heads lately for one.....

No one asked for your religion. The point is that your rhetoric is xenophobic and can easily apply to any other religion. It may not be as extreme as your favorite bogeyman, but it is there.

a reply to: jheated5

Obama jumped the gun and his administration still won't call it radical islam, what's giving a few bucks gonna do but give them a good image until another attack like this happens?

Let's see if I can explain this in a way even you can understand this he won't call it radical because Islam itself is not radical. People are radical if he were to call it radical Islam then he would also have to call Christianity radical because Christian extremist have murdered more people in America than Muslim extremist. Also seeing how this guy started collecting money before he knew the killers were Muslim him doing for Islams image comment is kind of silly.

Yes Muslims do believe the same things, Is it not in black and white in their holy books?

Not it's not in their holy books. Each sect of Islam has different teachings just like Christianity which has thousands of different sects. So this comment just shows your ignorance when it comes to Islam.

Yeah and having the crime scene tampered with within 48 hrs after the incident, nope not suspicious at all!

Can you prove Obama contacted those who were overseeing the crime scene to let people tamper with it or is that just something FOX or Rush dreamed up.

originally posted by: jheated5
I'm Agnostic but last time I checked Christians haven't been lobbing off peoples heads lately for one.....

No they prefer bombs and automatic weapons.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

You make an important point here.

People can be radicalised no matter what religion they might be from, or even if they have no religion what so ever. Extreme anarchy, extreme statism, extreme anything... People from every walk of life can be lead down a path to darkness, one which will see them commit acts of savagery based on a whole massive host of different ideals and concepts. From the religious to the political, from the street to the state level, and the crucial thing is to remember that no matter which sect a violent, brainwashed lunatic might come, they are identical in aim, identical in every important way.

The banner under which a man might march is not nearly as important to take a note of, as what they did when they walked under it, and how they came to find themselves beneath it. It is also important to remember that treating the wrongdoing of one person, differently than the wrongdoing of another, purely based upon the flawed reasoning they used to justify it, is WRONG. The same disease being present in two persons, generally means that the same treatment ought to be applied.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
He didn't give one. Lol

a reply to: buster2010
I'm sorry but he would of known. How could anyone believe that he did not know the killer was a Muslim. How can you raise that much money while your head is in the sand?

No one in their right mind would believe that. It's actually irresponsible him raising money for a cause he has no knowledge on.

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: ScepticScot

This of course being the most amount of mass shootings in history since Obama has been in office, coincedence?

Mass shootings have tripled under Obama than in the previous Dubya admin. And this was even before San Bernardino. I wonder why.

"Under Obama’s Watch: Public Mass Shootings Have Tripled"
conservativeread.com...

And for those that say the source is biased because it's a conservative site, even the FBI says so.
"Mass shootings in U.S. have tripled in recent years, FBI says"
www.latimes.com...

I'm glad I have my flame suit prepared because I was ready for the usual responses from the usual people. Like to cherry pick and use whatever fits the narrative. Explaining myself serves no purpose because the proof is all around, also it's my opinion so I'm entitled to it just as you.