Allow Muslim's in?

I have talked to my Muslim friends about this. They say don't let them in. My Muslim friends do not cut on their daughters, they do not want to kill infidels. Therefor they are technically not Muslims and their heads will be first on the block before Christians because they will be seen as heretics. Since they cannot say this I am saying it for them.

a reply to: Doctor G
Question for you, do your Muslim friends respect the fact that you don't believe in their god/ creator and or your traditions, they believe that it is wrong to run over their child with a car because they were out with guys or got a job?

I'm asking this because in the past few years there have been stories in the news about fathers of Muslim Children that called their crimes legal according to there religion but were considered against the law here in the US.

a reply to: Doctor G

At what point does this Islamophobia become an attack on our Constitutional freedom of religion? It seems the terrorists have succeeded in instilling an irrational sense of paranoia in the hearts of Americans.

Of course they don't want REAL muslims coming to the states with their bassackwards philosophy, lack of acknowledgment to human rights, and inherently violent and murderous ideology. Western muslims live a cushy life, that's why they claim to not condone the actions of true muslims, but as they say - a moderate muslim won't kill you, but they will go home and pray that a radical does.


Radical muslims are TRUE muslims, they follow the rules laid in the scripture of their holy book to the T - violence, death, destruction, domination and abuse is the true nature of islam.

Unfortunately for them, in other Muslim eyes, they want to follow the laws of America. That makes them bad Muslims to the rest.

There are a lot of people suffering in Africa and South America too, hell there are 2 million homeless kids in Brazil alone, so why the big push when we never pushed before. I have a sister in law that doesn't have a very good life and its been 12 years trying to get her here, so it makes me a little frustrated that the President is using this as a political ploy. How the hell do they get here anyways, it is not like they travel on foot or by boat.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

At what point does this Islamophobia become an attack on our Constitutional freedom of religion? It seems the terrorists have succeeded in instilling an irrational sense of paranoia in the hearts of Americans.

Well it will cost money,and most likely a lot. I would rather see that money spent on 25,000 homeless than 25,000 refugees. Take care of business at home should be #1, but it is not.

originally posted by: 8fl0z

Radical muslims are TRUE muslims, they follow the rules laid in the scripture of their holy book to the T - violence, death, destruction, domination and abuse is the true nature of islam.

I'm not sure but I'll check, no holy book talks about it "violence, death, destruction, domination "
Everywhere there are individuals who do evil things but because of some bad people should not judge all the other.

originally posted by: Doctor G
Unfortunately for them, in other Muslim eyes, they want to follow the laws of America. That makes them bad Muslims to the rest.

Seeing how Muhammad said that Muslims are supposed to follow the laws of the nation they are living in how does that make them bad Muslims? This is what he was reported to have said.

‘Love for one's country is part of faith’

Muslims are therefore required to live by this noble teaching and remain loyal to their country.

O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority over you

Any country or government that guarantees religious freedom to followers of different faiths (not just Islam) must be owed loyalty. The Prophet Muhammad stressed this point when he said: ‘One who obeys his authority, obeys me. One who disobeys his authority, disobeys me.’

These Muslims you know seem to be like a lot of Christians we have in America. They claim to be part of a faith but don't know jack what the founder of that religion really said.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Are we talking about refugees? Or Donald Trump's ban on Islamic travel? I don't think we need to let any refugees in. But to ban travel based on religion is unconstitutional.

a reply to: 8fl0z

Radical muslims are TRUE muslims, they follow the rules laid in the scripture of their holy book to the T - violence, death, destruction, domination and abuse is the true nature of islam.

No they are not true Muslims. Many Muslims that are members of this forum have denounced the violence radicals do just like numerous Muslim organizations. Also Muhammad said a Muslim is only allowed to fight a person that is attacking the Muslim noncombatants are off limits.

It would not be possible to dis-allow muslims, or anyone claiming to be muslim within our borders. Just as it would be impossible to 'ban' any religion. We would simply end up having secret muslim societies and people practicing that religion in secret.

We have to remember, that there were many people from Europe who came to America to flee religious oppression, banning it only made it MORE prevalent regardless of what religion we are talking about.

I do think there has been a serious uptick in rampant muslim exremism, and yes something needs to be done about it, just as I would agree that radical christian groups should be dealt with. The truth of the matter is any extremism in any form should be profiled and dealt with, without cries of racism/bigotry ect, especially since radicalism is on the rise, and most especially when it comes to islam. We cant let a few insluted people jeopardize everyohe else.

My beleifs reflect mostly christian views along side with the lost texts ect, but i would have no problem with profiling the extreme groups who wish to kill abortionists, etc, or any group that wishes to kill others in the name of their religion. It happens in rare christian extremist sects, but not nearly as often today as extremist muslim terrorist acts, and not just in the U.S. We need more honesty about this, and play less political games..

More care needs to be taken, and people need to start being honest about the out of control muslim extremism going on, steps need to be taken, strict monitoring of some groups and common sense practices, even if that means profiling some groups, sure.

But in conclusion, banning or dis-allowing people of any faith will never work, even if it became the law of the land. It's a ridiculous notion, as equally ridiculous as atheists who call for the banning of all religion. It just wont ever happen.

a reply to: Doctor G

My gay friends feels the same way.

a reply to: buster2010

No they are not true Muslims. Many Muslims that are members of this forum have denounced the violence radicals do just like numerous Muslim organizations. Also Muhammad said a Muslim is only allowed to fight a person that is attacking the Muslim noncombatants are off limits.

No true Muslim would commit acts of violence, yet they do.

Explanation: This is a very common form of this fallacy that has many variations. Every time one group member denounces another group member for doing or saying something that they don’t approve of, usually by the phrase, “he is not really a true [insert membership here]”, this fallacy is committed.

No True Scotsman Fallacy

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Doctor G

At what point does this Islamophobia become an attack on our Constitutional freedom of religion? It seems the terrorists have succeeded in instilling an irrational sense of paranoia in the hearts of Americans.

This isn't an attack on someone being free to practice their religion or even religion itself it is concern about a political ideology that wants to destroy us and our country. I can't imagine there is a religion that promotes death and destruction, but there is a destructive ideology pretending to be Islam.

How will the incoming Muslim be identified? Will they be forced to wear a symbol on all their clothing ? I'm pretty sure that's how it was in the 1930's although for a different religion. Unless all Muslims will be identified by the shade of their skin unfortunately that would exclude all other religions as well.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Doctor G

At what point does this Islamophobia become an attack on our Constitutional freedom of religion? It seems the terrorists have succeeded in instilling an irrational sense of paranoia in the hearts of Americans.

That "irrational sense of paranoia" was always there.

upload.wikimedia.org...

We can't ban all muslims from entering the country. Just like we can't ban all jews who follow the Talmud.

We just have to hope that migrant muslims will submit to american law and civilization, like most jews have. Hell, if fundamental Jews (who follow the Talmud) were in the same position as muslims they would probably be doing the same stuff.

Most religions have holy books that are filled with ugly and violent passages. The differnce is fundamentalism or being a "moderate".

Which is stupid. Fundmentalists are just taking religion to its logical conclusion. However, if people HAVE to believe in religion, we just have to make sure it's the beliefs that ignore the bad stuff.

In conclusion, lets hope muslims become half-baked believers, like most of us in america.

originally posted by: Lora73

originally posted by: 8fl0z

Radical muslims are TRUE muslims, they follow the rules laid in the scripture of their holy book to the T - violence, death, destruction, domination and abuse is the true nature of islam.

I'm not sure but I'll check, no holy book talks about it "violence, death, destruction, domination "
Everywhere there are individuals who do evil things but because of some bad people should not judge all the other.

Here's Surah 109 of the Qur'an (Pickthall translation). This is a revelation specifically sent to tell us how to deal with non-believers.

109. al-Kafirun (The Unbelievers)

1. Say: O disbelievers!
2. I worship not that which ye worship;
3. Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

www.khayma.com...

Most of the people on ATS that talk about Islam have never actually read the Qur'an, much less read it in its entirety. They take out of context passages from roughly 9 of the 114 Surahs/Surats in the Qur'an, then use those to "prove" their points. If you want to know the truth about Islam, I'd advise you to read the Qur'an (the Pickthall translation is in my signature).

And here's the very first Surah, the "Fatiha" (The Opening). This is by far the most widely spoken Surah by Muslims, and is usually the 1st thing we memorize from the Qur'an (since we recite it in our prayers).

Quran 1, al-Fatiha (The Opening)
1. In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3. The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4. Master of the Day of Judgment,
5. Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6. Show us the straight path,
7. The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

www.khayma.com...

Not quite the "doom & destroy" crap they claim, huh?

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Doctor G
Unfortunately for them, in other Muslim eyes, they want to follow the laws of America. That makes them bad Muslims to the rest.

Seeing how Muhammad said that Muslims are supposed to follow the laws of the nation they are living in how does that make them bad Muslims? This is what he was reported to have said.

‘Love for one's country is part of faith’

Muslims are therefore required to live by this noble teaching and remain loyal to their country.

O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority over you

Any country or government that guarantees religious freedom to followers of different faiths (not just Islam) must be owed loyalty. The Prophet Muhammad stressed this point when he said: ‘One who obeys his authority, obeys me. One who disobeys his authority, disobeys me.’

These Muslims you know seem to be like a lot of Christians we have in America. They claim to be part of a faith but don't know jack what the founder of that religion really said.

Here is a lesson on the Koran!


Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true

Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

From the Quran

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim should appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel that way..

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

From the Hadith

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."

Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.

So if your still with you me it is clear that though all Muslims are not radicals muslims can lie and decieve to further the goals of islam.

Case in point is the San Bernadino killers: No one had any clue even our intelligence people didnt!