‘Incursion’: Baghdad demands Turkey withdraw ‘training’ troops from northern Iraq

a reply to: intrptr

Well they didn't hitch a ride through Syria with Isis, did they?

Did they?

Did you know Turkey shares a border with Iraq? Mosul is just across that border. Basically, Turkey is helping Sunni Iraqis and Kurds retake Mosul from ISIS by flanking them from the Turkish side. Do you have a problem with Turkey taking down an ISIS stronghold?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr
Do you have a problem with Turkey taking down an ISIS stronghold?

Illegally? Yes I do.

originally posted by: Mastronaut

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr
Do you have a problem with Turkey taking down an ISIS stronghold?

Illegally? Yes I do.

Why is it illegal to attack ISIS on its own territory. Mosul is no longer Iraq, it is IS.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Mastronaut

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr
Do you have a problem with Turkey taking down an ISIS stronghold?

Illegally? Yes I do.

Why is it illegal to attack ISIS on its own territory. Mosul is no longer Iraq, it is IS.

Can you please link me the legal recognition of an IS state? This is a travesty invented to invade a country without declaring war and paying the consequences of it. If we start to arbitrarily assign the right to occupy whatever terrorist occupied zone regardless of sovereignity then we're done.

If you cross a sovereign border you are violating that state and you have no right to do it. In Syria and Iraq today we basically decided that international laws don't apply because 'murica decides what's right.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr

Well they didn't hitch a ride through Syria with Isis, did they?

Did they?

Did you know Turkey shares a border with Iraq? Mosul is just across that border. Basically, Turkey is helping Sunni Iraqis and Kurds retake Mosul from ISIS by flanking them from the Turkish side. Do you have a problem with Turkey taking down an ISIS stronghold?

Turkey training Kurds? Maybe im missing something. Turkey hates the kurds.

Turkey training isis against the kurds, that makes sense. The other way, not so much. I have yet to find anything official from Turkey showing amything but disdain for the kurds.

I mean, the words kurd, kurdish, and kurdistan were banned in Turkey. There have been multiple attempts at genocide. This doesnt add up at all.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Take a look at that wiki. Anyone else ever talking about systematic or instituional racism in the US, can look at Turkey and the Kurds and see what those things actually look like.

a reply to: Mastronaut

So you are defending ISIS? Disputed territory is not sovereign territory.

a reply to: ISawItFirst

Turkey training Kurds? Maybe im missing something. Turkey hates the kurds.

The situation is complicated. Short answer: my enemy's enemy is my friend.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Mastronaut

So you are defending ISIS? Disputed territory is not sovereign territory.

Who let GWB in here. Screw the truth, you're with us, or you're against us.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ISawItFirst

Turkey training Kurds? Maybe im missing something. Turkey hates the kurds.

The situation is complicated. Short answer: my enemy's enemy is my friend.

Short answer, you greatly disrort the truth to fit your narrative. You didnt even read my linky did you. Speaking in defense of a kurd can get you prosecuted in Turkey.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Mastronaut

So you are defending ISIS? Disputed territory is not sovereign territory.

Your strawman doesn't work. Turkey still has to show it's fighting IS.
That's not disputed at all by another state entity, only in your and your government fantasy, and that's enough for NATO countries to do the # they want, but not enough to make it legitimate.

Are you really trying to defend Turkey that shot down a ISIS-fighting Su-24 for 17s violation and now is occupying with tanks another country ILLEGALLY?

If you aren't able by yourself to see what's wrong then you are probably already far too brainwashed.

originally posted by: ISawItFirst

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Mastronaut

So you are defending ISIS? Disputed territory is not sovereign territory.

Who let GWB in here. Screw the truth, you're with us, or you're against us.

W invaded a country whose borders and sovereignty were not in dispute. Iraq has lost control of the area around Mosul; its borders and sovereignty are very much in dispute. I could point to Russia's actions in Eastern Ukraine, but all you would do is deny, deny.

a reply to: Mastronaut

Are you really trying to defend Turkey that shot down a ISIS-fighting Su-24 for 17s violation and now is occupying with tanks another country ILLEGALLY?

Make up your mind: is it legal or illegal to violate a nation's sovereign border? The Russian jet violated an airspace that was not in dispute and fully under Turkey's control. Mosul is in dispute and not under Iraq's control.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Mastronaut

Make up your mind: is it legal or illegal to violate a nation's sovereign border? The Russian jet violated an airspace that was not in dispute and fully under Turkey's control. Mosul is in dispute and not under Iraq's control.

Make up YOUR mind and stop playing dirty. You are ok that a 17s violation of SOVEREIGN space is worth downing a jet that is in a coalition fighting ISIS, but you are also ok for a country with alleged ties with ISIS to invade another state at will and without repercussions.
You are either ignoring or lieing, but THERE IS NO ISLAMIC STATE ON ANY MAP RECOGNIZED BY ANYONE AND NO WAR DECLARED TOWARD SUCH STATE, so Iraq is only invaded by Turkey without permission of the government.

Turkey must either declare war to Iraq or leave there is no dispute or anything, it's just an ILLEGAL invasion to smuggle weapons to the ones YOU (but mostly YOUR COUNTRY AND HIS ALLIES) are protecting, ie the terrorists.

Now go find a document recognized by anyone that allows to send tanks in a foreign country under terrorist control WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM SAID COUNTRY, and then we can discuss.

a reply to: Mastronaut

Stop shouting, please. You are trying to argue legalism. Since IS is not a recognized state, any declaration of war against them is purely rhetorical. A nation's sovereignty only extends to territory it can control. Turkey exerted its ability to control its airspace, Iraq cannot control its territory in Mosul.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Mastronaut

Stop shouting, please. You are trying to argue legalism. Since IS is not a recognized state, any declaration of war against them is purely rhetorical. A nation's sovereignty only extends to territory it can control. Turkey exerted its ability to control its airspace, Iraq cannot control its territory in Mosul.

So you are rewriting international laws without asking anyone else if they are ok with it? Mosul is in Iraq by any and every standard.
If Turkey was pursuing invading IS fighters it would be acceptable, but this is not the case. It's a matter of legality and legitimacy, this is just another act of bullism [at least] by Turkey that saw NATO support for their irresponsible actions. With their actions, if they refuse to withdraw the troops they are effectively at war with Iraq for no good reasons, exposing the entire alliance to a big vulnerability in legal therms.

There is no way Turkey has the slightest right to not withdraw their forces (since they already invaded illegally). Their contribute to IS-decimation has been at best debatable and they are only going to create a lot of problems by acting so irresponsibly. What would you think if France put their tanks in Ferguson by deciding it wasn't under control of the USA? Don't you see how useless and dangerous are these moves?

These are simply threat and I can't understand how you can't see them. The only question is if behind closed doors NATO is driving, supporting or disagreeing with Turkey's action, because they aren't really favouring a solution for the current tension. In fact they are a threat, everyday more.

a reply to: Mastronaut

International law in war? Neither Iraq nor Syria is a functioning state, so their status is no different than IS's.

a reply to: DJW001

Do you have a problem with Turkey taking down an ISIS stronghold?

Meh, you're just pretending Turks and Isis are allies and business partners.

a reply to: DJW001

Mosul is no longer Iraq, it is IS.

Jedi mind meld again… "these are not the droids you are looking for."

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Mastronaut

International law in war? Neither Iraq nor Syria is a functioning state, so their status is no different than IS's.

Exactly where is the war? The reality is there is no war unless somebody declares it for a reason. Turkey can enter Iraq only with Iraq permission. It isn't difficult to understand so I have to think you are ok with breaking the laws in an undeclared war (so in peacetime).

Regardless of your opinion even war has laws. Those states aren't functioning cause you side with terrorism since 30 years. IS cannot be fought without the sovereign country they are in gives permission, and no NATO country has it in Syria nor Turkey has in Iraq.

Apart being disgustingly biased, your opinion is also wrong in every possible framework (legal, political, social, military, economically, whatever) you put it in. It's a fascist narrative to justify it "because we don't care of the rules".

Those turks are really up for it, today they "kidnaped" 4 russian ships.. But also Russia does not allow 5 turkish ships to leave Russia.

The turkish ship names are MEYRA, ADALADY, HALIL SAHIN, MERT DEVAL and MAHMUT SAKA

link

Turkish media say, this is a payback for Russia not allowing turkish ships to leave Russian ports. The same article states that Turks, NOT ONLY they decline the Iraqi officials, to abandon Iraqi land, but they tend to create a perma base by force - occupation.