There are no giants in the original bible

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Marduk

Your post wasn't completely lost. I would find it difficult to believe the translators back in their era and throughout history are all wrong and some ATS poster has straightened out the large world of language experts, theologians, and scholars. Of course, all hail to ATS!

originally posted by: spirit_horse



Your post wasn't completely lost. I would find it difficult to believe the translators back in their era and throughout history are all wrong and some ATS poster has straightened out the large world of language experts, theologians, and scholars. Of course, all hail to ATS!

I'm sorry, did you actually read the OP
I did a line by line comparison which showed that Giant didn't even appear in the earlier versions, we then later discussed how the meaning of giant has changed over time, supported by credible links. We then went into detail to show how the Giant Goliath was 6'7 and not 9'
how did you miss that

originally posted by: Marduk
I'm sorry, did you actually read the OP
I did a line by line comparison which showed that Giant didn't even appear in the earlier versions, we then later discussed how the meaning of giant has changed over time, supported by credible links. We then went into detail to show how the Giant Goliath was 6'7 and not 9'
how did you miss that

Sorry, I did read your OP and that nor any post you made on the first page had ANY links. Unless I have lost my mind, which I do once in awhile like now as I should have been sleeping hours ago. Did you listen to the video that the2ofusr1
posted. I don't know you Marduk, are you a language expert, or something? I am just asking as I don't know.

I didn't watch the vid, but I've read what Heiser has written on the term "nephilim."

He states that it comes from an Aramaic word meaning "giants," as opposed to Sitchinistas and their claim of "the Fallen."

The term nephilim cannot be constructed from any Hebrew word, according to him.

Heiser is an acknowledged expert in ancient Hebrew. I am not. Therefore, until given further information, I tend to believe what he says.

Of course, as has been stated in this thread, the concept of "giant" has evolved over time since then.

Harte

a reply to: Blueracer

It's true that not all Christians use the KJV. But none of them are using Hebrew for the OT. When I was an altar boy, I had to learn the mass in Latin, despite not using Latin anymore. When my parents were kids, the entire mass was in Latin but even the earliest Latin versions are hundreds of years removed from even the oldest exegent Greek versions which is nearly a millennia and a half removed from KJV. Multiple translations over the course of 3000 years of languages changing doesn't beget you reliable material unless you go to the source. And the source isn't Latin anymore than it is English despite Latin having been the primary written language of Christian scripture since the 5th century

I would agree with the overall thesis of the OP, which suggests that the Nephilim are tribes and peoples of substantial strength, power, and physical stature. Giants, only in a relative and exaggerated sense.

However, the mythos and literal reading of the Biblical texts suggests that the Nephilim are supernaturally hybridized beings.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the "Sons of Elohim" ("Bene 'Elohim") [הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ בְנֵי־] went to the daughters of Adam/Man and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:4

According to the Bible and Torah, the union between the "Sons of Elohim" and "daughters of Adam/Man" resulted in the birth of the Nephilim.



Many are of the the opinion that the "Sons of Elohim" are angels, concluding that the Nephilim are half-angel, half-human hybrids.

There is an alternative opinion that suggests that the "Sons of Elohim" are beings that mirror and correspond to the "Sons of El" of the indigenous Canaanite religious systems (comparable to the Greek Olympians). This opinion concludes that the Nephilim are half-god, half-human hybrids; being comparable to the Greek demigods and heroes.


('Fury of Achilles', Charles-Antoine Coypel)

In my opinion, the Biblical context of the Nephilim hints toward the latter:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the Sons of Elohim went to the daughters of Adam/Man and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:4

('Hercules and the Hydra', John Singer Sargent)

"Heroes of old, men of renown," is a strikingly similar description of the demigod offspring of the Olympians. We find further heroic and demigod-like descriptions in the Book of Numbers:

But the people who live there are powerful, and the cities are fortified and very large. We even saw descendants of Anak there. The Amalekites live in the Negev; the Hittites, Jebusites and Amorites live in the hill country; and the Canaanites live near the sea and along the Jordan.”

Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, “We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it.”

But the men who had gone up with him said, “We can’t attack those people; they are stronger than we are.” And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim, the Sons of Anak; from the Nephilim. We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.

Numbers 13:28-33

The patriarchal progenitor of the Anakim is an enigmatic hero named Arba; the father of Anak. The Anakim encountered by the Hebrew-Israelites were of later generation, being the "Sons of Anak" and tribes of Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai.

The exact nature of the Anakim is debatable, even among Biblical and religious experts. Some conclude that the Anakim are a distinct tribe of Nephilim. Some propose that the Anakim are a generational branch of the Rephaim, who are a generational branch of the Nephilim. Still, there are others who speculate that the Rephaim, Anakim, and Nephilim all belong to the same group of hybridized beings (Sons of Elohim + Daughters of Man).

a reply to: Sahabi

Good post and interesting . Micheal Heiser has a long lecture on The Sons Of God where he looks at the differing groups and the names we see in scripture as well as other ancient text ...well worth a listen to for anyone interested in the subject .

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Marduk
The gigantes were the children of Gaea in Greek mythology, also known as the Titans, a half-breed; part human, part God who opposed the gods of Olympus.

Umm no, not exactly. Titans came before the Greek Pantheon and were full god, no human mixed in, they were a product of Gaea and Uranus (both primordial gods). The greek Pantheon was born from Titans (Kronos and Rhea), but where the titans only loosely resembled humans in the fact that they had two arms and were bipedal the Pantheon was Humanity made perfect for a lack of better term. They looked the same as we do, only perhaps bigger and glowing. The children of the Pantheon were half-breeds, the most famous of which is Hercules (son of Zeus and Human woman). Zeus and his brothers stopped their father Kronos and the rest of the Titans from destroying the world and imprisoned them in Tartarus for the rest of eternity. If I remember correctly the legends say that should the Titans ever escape from Tartarus that they would lay waste to the planet but I might be wrong on that, it has been almost two decades since I studied this.

As for the Op

I'm not to surprised that there was a mistranslation, you have to remember that at the time almost no one knew how to read and write, only monks really (and a few more well off people). Even then most of those people could only barely read or write and because the English language was still in a state of flux there was no set spelling for most words, you just spelled it how it sounded to you (hooked on phonics anyone?). It was a very messy time for writing and learning to read and write. So it stands to reason that there would be some mistranslations along the way. Not to mention I seem to remember a history teacher of mine saying that King James commissioned the rewrite of the bible to better reflect his goals for the empire at the time... though I am not sure how accurate that is.

Did you listen to the video that the2ofusr1 posted..

Where he said that the word Nephilim is derived from the word Giant, The word giant has changed its meaning, these days it means huge person, back then it meant "powerful". Language is fluid.

The Greek word was used in Septuagint to refer to men of great size and strength, hence the expanded use in modern languages; in English of very tall and unusually large persons from 1550s

www.etymonline.com...

I don't know you Marduk, are you a language expert, or something? I am just asking as I don't know.

I speak English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, understand German, I can translate Sumerian, but am not sure of my accent; Linguistics is fun

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Marduk

The gigantes were the children of Gaea in Greek mythology, also known as the Titans, a half-breed; part human, part God who opposed the gods of Olympus.

The Titans and Gigantes are divine, not "half-breed; part human, part God". This description actually belongs to the Demigod and Hero offspring that resulted from the union between Olympians and Humans. Also, I think you may be confusing the Titanomachy and the Gigantomachy.

The origination hierarchy of Greek Mythology:

1. Primordial Deities
2a. Titans
2b. Gigantes
2c. Gorgons
3. Olympians
4. Demigod/ Heroes

originally posted by: Sahabi

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Marduk

The gigantes were the children of Gaea in Greek mythology, also known as the Titans, a half-breed; part human, part God who opposed the gods of Olympus.

The Titans and Gigantes are divine, not "half-breed; part human, part God". This description actually belongs to the Demigod and Hero offspring that resulted from the union between Olympians and Humans. Also, I think you may be confusing the Titanomachy and the Gigantomachy.

The origination hierarchy of Greek Mythology:

1. Primordial Deities
2a. Titans
2b. Gigantes
2c. Gorgons
3. Olympians
4. Demigod/ Heroes

Exactly

In Greek mythology, the Giants or Gigantes (Greek: Γίγαντες, Gigantes, singular Gigas) were a race of great strength and aggression, though not necessarily of great size, known for the Gigantomachy (Gigantomachia), their battle with the Olympian gods.[

en.wikipedia.org...(Greek_mythology)

As has been stated earlier, the concept of Giant meaning huge human didn't become the primary meaning until the 15th century. So anyone using the term earlier than that as in the Septuagint, was simply saying "powerful",

a reply to: NewzNose
9 cubits is 13.5 feet long, not 9 feet. I would consider anyone 12 feet tall as a giant.

a reply to: Okeyd57

My father was 6.5" and I thought of him as a giant.

originally posted by: looneylupinsrevenge

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Marduk
The gigantes were the children of Gaea in Greek mythology, also known as the Titans, a half-breed; part human, part God who opposed the gods of Olympus.

Umm no, not exactly. Titans came before the Greek Pantheon and were full god, no human mixed in, they were a product of Gaea and Uranus (both primordial gods). The greek Pantheon was born from Titans (Kronos and Rhea), but where the titans only loosely resembled humans in the fact that they had two arms and were bipedal the Pantheon was Humanity made perfect for a lack of better term. They looked the same as we do, only perhaps bigger and glowing. The children of the Pantheon were half-breeds, the most famous of which is Hercules (son of Zeus and Human woman). Zeus and his brothers stopped their father Kronos and the rest of the Titans from destroying the world and imprisoned them in Tartarus for the rest of eternity. If I remember correctly the legends say that should the Titans ever escape from Tartarus that they would lay waste to the planet but I might be wrong on that, it has been almost two decades since I studied this.

You are quite correct and I will concede with a caveat, which is outlined in the post below.

a reply to: Sahabi

You are correct, however, Pindar, Olympiodorus, Oppian & Plato all attribute the origin of the human race to the Titans (Olympiodorus says that we were created from the fatty smoke of their burning corpses).

The consensus was that our bodies we get from the Titans and our souls are divine.

originally posted by: Okeyd57
a reply to: NewzNose
9 cubits is 13.5 feet long, not 9 feet. I would consider anyone 12 feet tall as a giant.

Lucky then that we know the original measurement as four cubits and a span

a reply to: Marduk

Oh baloney...A cubit is known to be about 18 inches...That's makes the bed over 13 feet long and 6 feet wide...I have no doubt you believe there are lots and lots of errors in the bible...

originally posted by: SanitySearcher
a reply to: Marduk


Goliath had a spear than could only be held by a hand a 'least' twice the size of yours and mine...and that was what?...on a human only 6 foot tall? Don't be stupid man.

.

That'll be the spear that a child picked up after the battle then ?

originally posted by: Iscool
a reply to: Marduk

Oh baloney...A cubit is known to be about 18 inches...That's makes the bed over 13 feet long and 6 feet wide...I have no doubt you believe there are lots and lots of errors in the bible...

I have no doubt that you don't realise that you are attempting to validate your Christianity by arguing about a description of a bed from a book written for a completely different religion, which your faith supposedly invalidated already
Please defend ISIS next, they need your help