Is Murdering Another Human Wrong?

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: gggilll
Now let me ask you a question:

Is a family asking to unplug their terminally ill relative who has been in a coma for 10 years, a murder?

It can't be murder if, without outside help you die naturally.

If the unborn, undeveloped and non-functioning fetus was outside of the mother, it would die. It needs the mother for development.

isn't there some new fangled scientific law that says that unless something is observed, it doesn't exist?

let's look at the differences between the life of a fertilized egg compared to the life of the mother.....shall we??

the fertilized egg doesn't have the capability of knowing it exists, and won't have the capability to know it does for quite some time... at this point, neither does the mother know or anyone else for that matter...

it hasn't formed an relationship with anything in this world, let alone another human being...

it hasn't developed any wants, any desires, any loves, any ambitions...

and... it has absolutely no responsibilities at this point, even mom herself has no expectations that this little cell will bring her any happiness of joy because mom doesn't know it exists yet.

now let's look at the life of the mother....

she knows she exists, she lives...

she has developed relationships, she has people she loves and who love her...

she has goals, hopes, dreams, ambitions...

and she has responsibilities, people looking for her for all kinds of things, from children who might need help with their homework, baths at night, to the boss who relies on her to do her job, to the husband who who is looking to her for companionship and support.

I would tend to say that what makes a human life is all those things that the mother has, that that fertilized egg may develope over time is it happens to be one of the lucky few that isn't miscarried in the first few months of it's existence and manages to make it through the nine month.

but at different points throughout the process of pregnancy, these things will start to develop, the one cell will develop a brain, it will become self away, it might even begin to develop some hopes, some dreams, it will hear it's mother's voice and begin to develop a relationship to her, and well, it will even develop some responsibilities since mom will also be developing in her own way and begin to have some expectations for this child. To me, it seems that life begins when all these things develop, which well, probably varies with each case really. when does a mother start looking at a pregnancy as something more than a pregnancy and well comes to the full realization that it's a baby, her baby, that see can envision playing on the swing, practicing her piano lessons, cradling in her arms? Even for those mothers, who deeply desire a baby, this isn't gonna happen at conception, since like I said, at that point she doesn't even know she is pregnant probably! and until it does either for the mother, or the baby, that baby isn't a living human being! and usually it happens within the mother long before it happens within the baby, or anyone else for that matter.

some of yous just need to get a life! you want to exalt the "life" of that fertilized egg above that of the mother, and all who have relationships with her, who are relying on her, who love her! You don't seem to care just what consequences that pregnancy may have on any one in her sphere. catholic hospitals will let that women miscarry, and then develop infections, endangering the women's life, risking making her living children orphans, or making her husband a lonely widower, instead of aborting the non-viable fetus from her..... all in the name of the "sanctity of life." If a long term hospitalization is required to preserve the health and well being of the mother and baby, who cares right? There's foster homes for her living kids to be placed in if there's no one else around to care for them. After all, the rights of that developing fetus far outweigh the rights of those kids to not have the entire lives disrupted and them being faced with having strangers to rely on for their needs, right?

originally posted by: sociolpath
The spirit spoke this to Jeremiah and has also spoken it to me, the times have changed but his purpose has not. The world has been deceived on every level and he has appointed me and many others to reveal the truth. If you continue to harden your hearts and believe the deceiver you will be destroyed. Now is the time to change your mind and leave your contracts with evil!

The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

6“Alas, Sovereign Lord,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am too young.”

7But the Lord said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am too young.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. 8Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the Lord.

9Then the Lord reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “I have put my words in your mouth. 10See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.

Abortion is murder. If you continue to hold to these evil practices and tell others they are good, or not evil, or place all the blame on the woman by saying "it is her body, her right" then your destruction will not forget you.

It is not only her choice, but yours, as you support the evil practice of killing the unborn.

HEre is where you ar emistaken on something. Yeah your SPIRIT is in existence before you are conceived in your mothers womb. ALso a Body with no working systems will not support a soul being attached to it. Hence why the dead are...ahem dead.

If the fetus has a heart beat(and flowing blood and working organs) it is then seen as a living being,although until its birthed it can still be rejected by the mothers body and self terminated.(is that murder when a mothers body kills th e child itself?)

If someone cant get a abortion done before 3 weeks they should be made to carry the child to term OR give th efetus over to someone who will put it in a artiificial womb or another person.There are exceptions i know as well.

a reply to: yuppa

you do realize that it's impossible, at least as far as I know it is, to know weather you are pregnant or not till after you miss your first period, take a pregnancy test, right? three weeks aint' gonna cut it...

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: yuppa

you do realize that it's impossible, at least as far as I know it is, to know weather you are pregnant or not till after you miss your first period, take a pregnancy test, right? three weeks aint' gonna cut it...

Well if thats the case then Women engaged in unprotected sex should always pop a morning after pill then right? OR have implanted birth control. last for 5 or so years last time i checked.

a reply to: yuppa

1. no birth control is 100% effective.

2. unless married men are content to restrict their sexual encounters with their wives to just an occasional fling, the morning after pill is not a suitable birth control method.

3. and three, those nice implanted devices come with a nice price tag....they are more economical in the long run but many people don't have that kind of money laying around to spend... and really still aren't 100% effective!

and just for kicks....

4. there is always a risk to the mother's health and life during a pregnancy!!!

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: yuppa

1. no birth control is 100% effective.

2. unless married men are content to restrict their sexual encounters with their wives to just an occasional fling, the morning after pill is not a suitable birth control method.

3. and three, those nice implanted devices come with a nice price tag....they are more economical in the long run but many people don't have that kind of money laying around to spend... and really still aren't 100% effective!

and just for kicks....

4. there is always a risk to the mother's health and life during a pregnancy!!!

Well they can subsidize those forms of control and also offer reversible foorm of tube tying cheaper now a days if they actually wante dto. shoot a small incision is all it would take id bet these days.

a reply to: yuppa

or gee....hubbies can just forego sex for a few years if the women wants to space her kids apart....
simple as that really, or get a himself sterilized if that option isn't a pleasant option for him....

it doesn't matter what is done, there will always be valid reasons for abortions to be done...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

It is murder of a human being. I have a wife too. I don't know what I would do, if that would happen. I don't judge you, because I understand your position.

Even in the Bible, when David lay down with Bathsheba, Jehovah put the child to death.

Still, most abortions are not because of rape. And I have a very dear friend, named Brenda who is alive, even though she is the product of rape. And she has two children that I helped raise.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: yuppa

or gee....hubbies can just forego sex for a few years if the women wants to space her kids apart....
simple as that really, or get a himself sterilized if that option isn't a pleasant option for him....

it doesn't matter what is done, there will always be valid reasons for abortions to be done...

... or people can grow up and become adults about it all.

Some of us can manage not to get pregnant for years, a decade or longer even, but with the understanding that it could happen and we will support the child if it does.

And if you aren't married and are only looking to hook up and don't think you want any part of a kid? Maybe you ought to be looking at your lingerie drawer and not an actual live partner to get your jollies. It truly is safer that way ... for everyone.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: gggilll

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
No, the whole cabal part is your making stuff up.

If anything, you are the one bringing absolute definition to the table that you made up. I'm saying it's a complex topic.

I never stated it was not. Whether the fertilized egg is alive is not complex. It's not even part of the debate as everyone recognizes that it is.

The argument is that while alive it's not "human" ... and then a set of arbitrary definitions are used to support the argument.

The only scientific facts are that it's alive, and it has a full complement of human DNA.

Bravo....

How can so many eggs in so many women go in their periods every month without notice. It isn't until a sperm from a man reaches that egg, that changes everything.

I mean, I know this. How can people be so stupid as to not recognize this?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: yuppa

or gee....hubbies can just forego sex for a few years if the women wants to space her kids apart....
simple as that really, or get a himself sterilized if that option isn't a pleasant option for him....

it doesn't matter what is done, there will always be valid reasons for abortions to be done...

... or people can grow up and become adults about it all.

Some of us can manage not to get pregnant for years, a decade or longer even, but with the understanding that it could happen and we will support the child if it does.

And if you aren't married and are only looking to hook up and don't think you want any part of a kid? Maybe you ought to be looking at your lingerie drawer and not an actual live partner to get your jollies. It truly is safer that way ... for everyone.

Looking at the lingerie drawer only works for so many people I imagine. Ahhh...nevermind.