I Am NOT Black, You are NOT White.

a reply to: ghostrager

Poor Albert Enstine then, he must have had a complex over his smallish to average size brain, despite the density of grey matter.

Brain size and IQ has been debunked when it relates to humans, although it is still relevant amongst different species. What matters is the density of the frontal cortex and grey matter.

originally posted by: ghostrager
a reply to: Spider879

Race does not determine IQ. However, race plays a dominant role in brain size which impacts IQ. Larger brains tend to equate to higher IQ's. Take aboriginals for instance. They have the lowest volume of brain matter and their IQ correlates. This happens across the board with all races and is further proven when studying people that are mixed race.

Regarding your example of placing an individual in a circumstance that is not their norm; IQ isn't a measure of knowledge. Placing an "urbanite" on a farm and watching them fumble around is futile to measuring IQ. Watching that "urbanite" adapt by solving new found problems is a measure.

Yes but a country bumpkin would laugh at the city boy's fumbling around unable to navigate his environment at things that appears to be commonsense , and as for as the aboriginals , there is alot going on within the environment they now find themselves, some will resist assimilation but at the sametime unable to live like their ancestors, so they live like outcast but compare them to their relatives that live in places like India.
And if intelligence is the ability to adopt and over come, then look no further than Nigerians who trounced every other group in Britain in terms of higher education including the African derived West Indians with their multi ethnic mix and the old line Brits themselves, how could this be??? ,simple.. expectation not unlike the Asian Tiger moms in the U.S which goes back to culture or environment.

a reply to: calstorm

Einsteins iq wasn't particularly high and his ideas weren't all original but often adaptations. It's irrelevant because it's an isolated case and can't represent a whole.

Brain size = iq hasn't been "debunked". There have been mixed studies and conclusions due to fear of reprisal. And yes, the frontal cortex and grey matter do play a role. Men tend to have more grey matter and larger brains. They also score slightly higher than women on iq tests.

Sorry, but equality doesn't equate to being identical.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Everyone is different and we should acknowledge that as it is the truth.

Here's a good read to understand some of the facts in regards to iq:

iq studies overview

a reply to: ghostrager

Everyone is different and we should acknowledge that as it is the truth.

Correction every individual is different and that is the truth that should be acknowledged.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: AnuTyr

While I have problems with parts of your post regarding pole shifting causing civilizations to pack it in and migrate elsewhere, it is worth noting that the guy that coined the terms Caucasians etc, Blumenbach was no racist he believed even back then that while people differed in phenotype they were not subspecies of each other and championed anti slavery causes.

Blumenbach’s central question, one of great interest at the time and still rarely discussed in science, was whether contemporary humans comprised one or more species.4 Plurality of human species (polygeny) was the popular view in the 18th century. Blumenbach emphasised the unity of humanity, however. He saw gradations among humans, but no distinct species or
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
subspecies.

I was not implying that Blumenbach was a racist. I'm saying racism comes from discrimination. Any form of discrimination. Which is cultural taboo. Things we deem as moral rights and wrongs become the framework of society. This is why every nation has a system of punishment and enforcing laws.
Discrimination stems from these because not all nations view what is right and wrong as the same. This includes the people who are deemed bad or good by the civilization setting the standard for moral ethic. Which can be tied into political, religious. and social issues.

There will always be racism and discrimination unless every single person is coerced into one a hive mind of like mindedness by fear of prosecution. If everyone were persecuted for racism. There would still be Racism, Though over years of oppression from such a system it would in my opinion be replaced by prejudice which is just as bad as racism. Such as the divide between the poor and rich, as well as religious beliefs. But at the rate of current loss of religious rights in the world due to anti-muslim propaganda. We may just see one world religion as well.

Thumbs up for a positive thread.

a reply to: ghostrager
Only the article you linked to was largely retracted by its author. In part as one of his sources was a white supremacist.
www.slate.com...

a reply to: Lysergic

"I Am NOT Black, You are NOT White."

And I am not a boy, and you are not a girl... noticing a trend?

Anyhow, I totally respect the sentiment (unity and all good things), but doesn't this philosophy pretty much spit in the face of evolution?

originally posted by: Spider879

Everyone is different and we should acknowledge that as it is the truth.

Correction every individual is different and that is the truth that should be acknowledged.

I understand its getting late, but don't those two statements mean the exact same thing?

Human skin pigmentation is a complex trait that evolved as an adaptation to local environmental conditions.

pretty much common sense
www.els.net...

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Spider879

Everyone is different and we should acknowledge that as it is the truth.

Correction every individual is different and that is the truth that should be acknowledged.

I understand its getting late, but don't those two statements mean the exact same thing?

Not in the context of the conversation we are having, his "Everyone is different" is about grouping people under collectives called races,
My Every "individual is different" is exactly what it reads like..the individual.

originally posted by: Spider879

a black cat is a cat a white cat is a cat , all came from the same littler .

If our only physical difference was skin color, then I'd say that was a fair analogy... but we have other distinguishing characteristics as well...

Asians' narrow eyes and consistent hair color...
Africans' unique hair texture and sickle cell anemia...
Caucasians' varying hair colors and lack of rhythm lol...
etc, etc...

A fair analogy would be that I'm a bull terrier with brown spots and you're a [dog of your choosing here].

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Human skin pigmentation is a complex trait that evolved as an adaptation to local environmental conditions.

pretty much common sense

Only problem is that I don't believe it to be true.

People come up with ideas that they push until they have enough people believing what they are saying. Then those that agree, parrot what they have been told, until you have a group of like minded people insisting the information they are pushing is fact. The often deceptive practice of gathering statistics, and supposedly unbiased research, to prove preconceived ideas, and to further an argument that something is fact, is only a clever game of smoke and mirrors. Someone with a differing opinion will ultimately come along with their own set of data, and ?prove? them incorrect.

The human species like all other life forms on our planet, comes fitted with an amazing number of genetic possibilities. All of life on this planet is hardwired for survival. In an ever changing and sometimes hostile environment, the life forms on our planet, will pull from the seemingly infinite number of possibilities, warehoused within us, to create that form which is most likely to thrive the conditions in which it finds itself.

It doesn't evolve because it is not creating something that didn't exist before. The components already exists within them,they just weren't taken off the shelf and activated. A lamp doesn't evolve just because you took it off the shelf, took down a bulb, inserted it into the lamp, plugged the lamp into a wall socket, and then flipped a switch. You just used items you already had, connected them and activated them. I know this is an over simplification and I don't expect you to agree, but I try to get people to see what I am saying.

Our planet is like a construction set, with building blocks, a bit like Legos. The pieces are already there, and the planet is constantly making adjustments, and tweaking the lifeforms on this planet, to assist in our continued survival on our planet.

This is one of the reasons that it terrifies me when some people want to play God. When they think they are doing the world a favor, and want to remove all living things that don't think fit into their category of "perfect". Their idea of imperfect, may be the next step in our adaptation process on our path to survival.

Now I am not going to derail this thread by going into a long drawn out, adaptation versus evolution argument. It not only will cause thread drift, but it will only end in us agreeing to disagree.

Every child born is a miracle. It is the formation of a life form constructed of bits and pieces from a genetic pool contributed to by both parents, but it is a crap shoot. Every child also draws from the pool of their ancestry, which can make for some very interesting results.

Skin coloration is a product of the luck of the draw from the gene pool. If you reach in and pull out a ball from a pool filled with every color in the rainbow, but the majority of the balls in the pool are green, the odds are in your favor that you are going to be holding a green ball. That doesn't change that fact that you could have just as likely pulled out a a ball of another color, and it would not change the fact that it is a ball.

a reply to: Bone75

If our only physical difference was skin color, then I'd say that was a fair analogy... but we have other distinguishing characteristics as well...

Asians' narrow eyes and consistent hair color...
Africans' unique hair texture and sickle cell anemia...
Caucasians' varying hair colors and lack of rhythm lol...
etc, etc...

Hi Bone75 not for nothing but non of that is true
All Asians do not have narrow eyes, and while it's rare hair color and texture can vary sometimes, Asia is a very large place that starts in Turkey and ends in Siberia.
Africans have unique hair texture also not true

These are Asians


These are Africans

And if on average non urban Whites can't dance too well, that have more to do with age and culture than genetics
Btw sickle cell anemia also affects some Greeks and Italians.

originally posted by: Spider879

Hi Bone75 not for nothing but non of that is true

Well they are true... in an over-generalized sense of course

But I still say humans have or were separated into different breeds (which according to evolution will eventually become different species).

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Spider879

Hi Bone75 not for nothing but non of that is true

Well they are true... in an over-generalized sense of course

But I still say humans have or were separated into different breeds (which according to evolution will eventually become different species).

Unlikely as gene flow is more common now than at anytime in history, heck this is Miss Japan 2015



Of a Japanese mom and American dad, It is more likely the world in due time look Brazilian than drift into breeds, if a different species arise it will be due to trans-humanist movement where the super rich merge with nanobots and other enhancers to make them super-humans with very long lives.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Spider879

Hi Bone75 not for nothing but non of that is true

Well they are true... in an over-generalized sense of course

But I still say humans have or were separated into different breeds (which according to evolution will eventually become different species).

How can that be even possible?

I know people love holding onto the falsehood that they "are" special or less than, because their hair is a different, their skin color is different, their eyes are different, etc. People hold onto that I am better than or less than straw, because deep down inside they want to believe that those superficial differences matter. It gives them just one more justification and excuse to support their prejudices. They are wrong. People are just people that by luck, or depending on how the deck is stacked, displays those characteristics that happen to be present at the time of their conception.

It really is just that simple. It is as simple as the sum of our parts. I don't care how many, what color, which type, or how you connect them, at the end of the day you end up with a pile of Legos.

Even back in the days of Noah, this simple truth frightened the people. Even his own family believed that Noah was not of this world, because he was born with skin whiter than they had ever seen before.

Noah wasn't, strange or otherworldly. It was the luck of the draw. You see news articles from all over the globe announcing the birth of an anomaly. Woman in a remote village in Africa, give birth to a white baby. African children and Asian children born with violet, or sky blue eyes.

The truth is as simple as it gets, but it doesn't support the I am better than you, and I can prove it, because I am lighter, darker, taller, etc., crowd. Sorry folks you are just going to have to own up to the fact that you are not special, even in your bigotry and your prejudices. That is another characteristic that we lucked up on from that universal gene pool.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Isn't it funny how the definition of racism stops the scientific method of classification in it's tracks when it comes to humans?

Did you know that the less pigment you have in your skin, the better you process vitamin D? Is that a superficial difference as well?
Am I really a racist bigot for considering that an evolutionary advantage?

a reply to: Spider879

Of a Japanese mom and American dad, It is more likely the world in due time look Brazilian than drift into breeds, if a different species arise it will be due to trans-humanist movement where the super rich merge with nanobots and other enchanters to make them super-humans with very long lives.

Even then not very likely.

Many evolutionist have pretty much accepted the fact that there are no new species, per say. Just evolved members of a previous species that went extinct for the purpose of survival. So by their logic man would evolve into to a full blown robot with time, at the hands of trans-humanist.

I don't see it happening. Nature still is very much a big player in the game, and it has been playing this game a lot longer than man, who is no more than a significant inconvenience, and a pustule on Earth's backside, at the moment.

Species make adjustment and alterations made on that prime objective; survival. Life forms adapt, they do not go extinct, without a catastrophic event, either naturally occurring, or by intervention. A species can't evolve and still have members of that species still existing along the same path as the un-evolved species in the same area. This could happen if a species made adaptations to accommodate the survival in a changing environment.

Adaptations made for survival will have to utilize the building blocks that are already available to the life form. If it is able to use a building block that is not already present in the life form's stores. It will only be able to use it, if it is compatible, otherwise it will reject it. If considered a significant threat, it will build defenses against it.

Left in the hands of nature, a man with grafted, unnatural components, will not develop into the super human that man may be looking for. It is most likely that man would not adapt to the integrated parts, but build up super defenses against what our bodies, would consider an invasive and unnatural organism.

My family is a perfect example of what the world is going to look like in the future, and I have good news. All the characteristics that each individual person considers, unique, desirable, and or special, is present and counted for.

We have a family reunion every Thanksgiving. This year is was so big we had to gather in more than one state. We hooked up lap tops with Sykpe, and we had several phones with Face Time, floating around to connect the multiple groups, so we could see and talk to everybody. The children always get a kick out of the old family photos and it is amazing how 4 and 5 generations later, a child is born that looks exactly like a distant relative, that may not even have had children of their own.

It is just soup, and just like that box of chocolate that Forrest Gump spoke of; you never know what you are going to get, or what is going to pop out.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: ghostrager
Only the article you linked to was largely retracted by its author. In part as one of his sources was a white supremacist.
www.slate.com...

Unfortunately almost all of those studies are going to be the smoke and mirror versions, that I commented on.

It is nearly impossible to have a truly "unbiased" study. Anyone that goes into a study wanting to prove something, or is being paid to prove something, has corrupted the data before they even started collecting it.

We are too mentally invested in the Stars Upon Thars mind set to let it go. If we can't be God then we have to at least be better than something or someone else on this planet. We love puppies but hate dogs. We love babies but we hate people. We love lemonade but hate lemons. We are so screwed up.

We don't own the planet. We are just a few of the building blocks, it uses to keep this little blue marble going on its journey, to wherever it is taking us. Until we become a package that is not worth the burden of transport.