Is Mt. Rainier Volcano in Washington State Experiencing Tornillos? (I hope not)

Greetings all. I created an account specifically to reply this thread.

I'm one of those idiots that live close to Mt. Rainier. In fact I live on the White River, which originates from the Emmon's Glacier on the NE side of the mountain. If I open up my window right now I can hear the river flowing and gurgling in the distance. My town is built on the mudflow from an eruption 5000 years ago.

Beautiful area. Nice and flat with the foothills of the Cascade mountains rising abruptly to the East. Fairly rural with a good number of horse and dairy farms although as housing prices rise in the Seattle area m once little town is turning into more of a commuter / bedroom community.

Close to the base of the foothills, situated in flat cow pastures, are little hills dotting the landscape. Just perfect little wooded mountains popping up out of the carpet of green. A lot of the locals use their trails to hike and stay in shape. The highest hill sticks about 1000 feet above the plateau.

One of the fun things to do with visitors is to take them on a drive around the area. I'll point to those out of place hills and say, "Hey! You know what those are?" To which of course they'll answer 'hills' or something similar. I'll then explain that no, those are in fact the tops of mountains. They look like hills because we are standing on top of the 500 foot mudflow that I mentioned previously. That hill that rises 500 feet is actually a 1000 foot tall, just buried halfway in mud. Then I'll cock my head and look at the mountain with a concerned look on my face. Ah, good times, good times.

So I have a bit of a vested interest in all things volcanic.

Now, about the small tremors near the peak. We have had a few really bad storms in the last couple of weeks that dumped massive amounts of snow on the mountain. I would bet that the activity near the peak is due to avalanches. Could be wrong but it is a fairy common occurrence. As for the other activity? The mountain is constantly shaking and rumbling. It steams and breathes. The nature of the beast I'm afraid. It is, after all, an 'active' volcano.

Does that mean it's not going to blow in the near future? Nope. The mountain could explode as I type the next sentence or in 1000 years. There is no way to tell until it happens. Hopefully we will have some warning, but I wouldn't be the rent on it.

Am I screwed if the mountain goes? Ah yup! No doubt about it. Dead dead and double dead. The heat from an eruption would melt the Emmons Glacier and send a HUGE wall of water and mud and rocks and enormous trees and God knows what else straight to my doorstep. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

There is not a day goes by that I don't look out my window at the mountain and wonder if today is the day. Shoot, we have lahar drills in the river valleys around here. Complete with big old scary sirens mounted on towers and road signs pointing to 'volcano evacuation routes'. Which, as far as I can tell, is anywhere away from the sign. The schools take the threat of eruption very seriously. My kids had to pack volcano survival kits full of juice boxes and tuna fish, and take to school 'just in case'. Now that I think about it, that may explain a lot about my children.

But do we dwell on the fact that we are in the pathway of unexpected, and possibly imminent death? Not really. You can't live that way. Look, I drive a car. I could die at any moment behind the wheel through absolutely no fault of my own. I ride a motorcycle up in the Cascades and around Rainier all the time. How safe is that?

Don't answer.

We all have levels of acceptable risk. The balance of the beauty and recreational opportunities the the mountain offers is worth the risk to most of us. After all, we're all going to die. MIght as well be doing something we enjoy when the Reaper knocks. And chances are with a volcano at least the end will be quick. That's a bonus.

Yep, I can live at the base of an active volcano just fine. But living in tornado alley? That's insane.

a reply to: Sloat

Nice post, and it might be a good idea to keep an eye out for any visible increases in steam, any visible swelling of the sides, or any new fumaroles that might open up. I never quite understood this mentality: With all the things that can kill you already, why in the world would you tempt fate by adding "being in the direct path of a monster volcano" to the list?

a reply to: TrueAmerican

An emerging challenge in modern volcanology is the apparent contradiction between the perception that every volcano is unique, and classification systems based on commonalities among volcano morphology and eruptive style. On the one hand, detailed studies of individual volcanoes show that a single volcano often exhibits similar patterns of behavior over multiple eruptive episodes; this observation has led to the idea that each volcano has its own distinctive pattern of behavior (or “personality”). In contrast, volcano classification schemes define eruption “styles” referenced to “type” volcanoes (e.g., Plinian, Strombolian, Vulcanian); this approach implicitly assumes that common processes underpin volcanic activity and can be used to predict the nature, extent and ensuing hazards of individual volcanoes. Actual volcanic eruptions, however, often include multiple styles, and type volcanoes may experience atypical eruptions (e.g., violent explosive eruptions of Kilauea, Hawaii, Fiske et al., 2009). The volcanological community is thus left with a fundamental conundrum that pits the uniqueness of individual volcanic systems against generalization of common processes. Addressing this challenge represents a major challenge to volcano research.

emphasis mine

Common processes at unique volcanoes—a volcanological conundrum

Yes, there are some similarities between one type of volcano and another, but this shows that even within those similarities, there exists plenty of room for individual variations. There are even variations in different eruptions from the same volcano.

This leads me to the idea that each volcano is unique unto itself and while some generalities can be made, it is the small differences that can lead to the greatest discoveries.

To answer this question, it is important to assess the goals of volcano research. One goal is to improve the safety of communities that live close to active volcanoes. Here identifying one or more reliable precursors to an impending eruption [e.g., identification of tornillos at Galeras volcano, Columbia (Lourdes et al., 1997)] may not only be sufficient to meet that goal (that is, knowledge of the individual volcano may be enough), but may be the most appropriate and accurate approach. Individual volcano knowledge, in fact, underpins recent advances in developing effective strategies for volcano monitoring (Ewert et al., 2005; Miller and Jolly, 2014) and forecasting (Lindsay et al., 2010; Marzocchi and Bebbington, 2012; Bebbington, 2013) using statistical approaches such as risk trees and probabilistic models. A second goal is global, and focuses on acquisition of volcano parameters that can be used to identify regions of high volcanic hazard (and risk), and to place hazard assessments of specific volcanoes within a global context.

Out of curiosity. Does a Tunnel Boring Machine produce a tornillo?

There is a rumor of a DUMB in the area. Deep Underground Military Base.

just a thought.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

originally posted by: rickymouse
Are you saying the people living around there may be screwed?

No. I'll let the authorities determine that.

How is seismic data from one of those different than other seismic activity?

1) In that what little is seen of tornillos, they are almost always associated with fluid movement of some kind, and they only happen at select volcanoes. Apparently they happened at St. Helens and at Redoubt before eruptions.

2) Whereas both quakes and tremor can be associated with hydrothermal activity, or even gas activity, most of the time tornillos indicate magma movement (or at least so they think).

In studying some of these signatures more, like the ones from today, the apparent lack of energy in the 1 to 2 hz bands leads me to believe they are probably very shallow. In some of the other ones I sent to them, however, the exact opposite is true. The actual predominate frequency of them is exactly in the 1 to 2 hz bands, complicating this mystery. It could suggest two separate source mechanisms, if they are both tornillos in the first place. In those cases I think they are deeper. Much deeper. See the OP for the pics.

If you don't mind my (maybe very) silly question, however, not long ago there was a topic here saying about some sort of cannyon that cracked open in Wyoming (www.abovetopsecret.com...).

Now, this tornillos in Mt Rainier... considering that both States (WY and WA) are surrounding the Rocky Mountains (forgive me if I'm mistaken, geophysical maps is not exactly my strongest), wouldn't it be too much of a coincidence? Maybe there is some tectonic movement really taking place?

Also (and I don't want to be alarmist - please take into account my ignorance on the subject), if there's something going on up in northwestern US, could this cause or be a consequence of impact in southwestern US (read St. Andreas)?

As I keep reading ATS's topics (as well as other fora), time and time again recently people are writing about all sort of phenomena in that west "strip". Birds behaving strangely, dead fishes, insects plagues.... I dunno.

Maybe those are all unrelated... maybe not. Do you have any insight about it?

originally posted by: tsctsc

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

originally posted by: rickymouse
Are you saying the people living around there may be screwed?

No. I'll let the authorities determine that.

How is seismic data from one of those different than other seismic activity?

1) In that what little is seen of tornillos, they are almost always associated with fluid movement of some kind, and they only happen at select volcanoes. Apparently they happened at St. Helens and at Redoubt before eruptions.

2) Whereas both quakes and tremor can be associated with hydrothermal activity, or even gas activity, most of the time tornillos indicate magma movement (or at least so they think).

In studying some of these signatures more, like the ones from today, the apparent lack of energy in the 1 to 2 hz bands leads me to believe they are probably very shallow. In some of the other ones I sent to them, however, the exact opposite is true. The actual predominate frequency of them is exactly in the 1 to 2 hz bands, complicating this mystery. It could suggest two separate source mechanisms, if they are both tornillos in the first place. In those cases I think they are deeper. Much deeper. See the OP for the pics.

If you don't mind my (maybe very) silly question, however, not long ago there was a topic here saying about some sort of cannyon that cracked open in Wyoming (www.abovetopsecret.com...).

Now, this tornillos in Mt Rainier... considering that both States (WY and WA) are surrounding the Rocky Mountains (forgive me if I'm mistaken, geophysical maps is not exactly my strongest), wouldn't it be too much of a coincidence? Maybe there is some tectonic movement really taking place?

Also (and I don't want to be alarmist - please take into account my ignorance on the subject), if there's something going on up in northwestern US, could this cause or be a consequence of impact in southwestern US (read St. Andreas)?

As I keep reading ATS's topics (as well as other fora), time and time again recently people are writing about all sort of phenomena in that west "strip". Birds behaving strangely, dead fishes, insects plagues.... I dunno.

Maybe those are all unrelated... maybe not. Do you have any insight about it?

The san andreas and juan de fuca plate have corresponding boundaries. The juan de fuca is directly responsible for the cascadia region being volcanic.


There is a correlation between san andreas and the juan de fuca plates. Id imagine a large san andreas slip could lead to a juan de fuca slip at worst.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Thanks for the reply. I had never heard of a tortilla. Does sound like a Mexican tortilla lol.

So we maybe should be concerned magma is on the move?
I need to look up if Rainer can affect my area. I'm closer to Baker and St. Helens. It depends if there's Lahars.
Ash would drift my way.


Did they ever get back to you? I'm behind on the thread. Need to catch up

a reply to: schuyler

Honestly, at a distance of 50 km, I'd think the real concern for Tacoma would be the lahar rather than the pyroclastic flow. If I recall correctly, subsurface Geotechnical exploration (soil borings) have consistently shown that the entire valley from Ranier to Puget Sound bears evidence of soil and debris layers from a massive lahar, and Tacoma is no exception.

I noticed on the promo for King 5 news they mentioned all the quakes they've been having in the Seattle area.

originally posted by: OneGoal

originally posted by: tsctsc

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

originally posted by: rickymouse
Are you saying the people living around there may be screwed?

No. I'll let the authorities determine that.

How is seismic data from one of those different than other seismic activity?

1) In that what little is seen of tornillos, they are almost always associated with fluid movement of some kind, and they only happen at select volcanoes. Apparently they happened at St. Helens and at Redoubt before eruptions.

2) Whereas both quakes and tremor can be associated with hydrothermal activity, or even gas activity, most of the time tornillos indicate magma movement (or at least so they think).

In studying some of these signatures more, like the ones from today, the apparent lack of energy in the 1 to 2 hz bands leads me to believe they are probably very shallow. In some of the other ones I sent to them, however, the exact opposite is true. The actual predominate frequency of them is exactly in the 1 to 2 hz bands, complicating this mystery. It could suggest two separate source mechanisms, if they are both tornillos in the first place. In those cases I think they are deeper. Much deeper. See the OP for the pics.

If you don't mind my (maybe very) silly question, however, not long ago there was a topic here saying about some sort of cannyon that cracked open in Wyoming (www.abovetopsecret.com...).

Now, this tornillos in Mt Rainier... considering that both States (WY and WA) are surrounding the Rocky Mountains (forgive me if I'm mistaken, geophysical maps is not exactly my strongest), wouldn't it be too much of a coincidence? Maybe there is some tectonic movement really taking place?

Also (and I don't want to be alarmist - please take into account my ignorance on the subject), if there's something going on up in northwestern US, could this cause or be a consequence of impact in southwestern US (read St. Andreas)?

As I keep reading ATS's topics (as well as other fora), time and time again recently people are writing about all sort of phenomena in that west "strip". Birds behaving strangely, dead fishes, insects plagues.... I dunno.

Maybe those are all unrelated... maybe not. Do you have any insight about it?

The san andreas and juan de fuca plate have corresponding boundaries. The juan de fuca is directly responsible for the cascadia region being volcanic.


There is a correlation between san andreas and the juan de fuca plates. Id imagine a large san andreas slip could lead to a juan de fuca slip at worst.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't believe in coincidences, and there's too much happening to pass by unnoticed

a reply to: Sloat

Thank you for your post. I am past the point of contemplation, and full force into the process of moving to the Astoria area of Oregon. But I'm paranoid about the Pacific. Now this thread's got me paranoid about volcanoes and earthquakes. I found a cute apartment in.....St. Helen's...(nothing to be paranoid about there). I was just coming on the thread to ask if there's ANY part of Oregon that is not directly in the danger zone of a tsunami or volcano or fault line.

But you're right, it doesn't matter. I really want to live up there, and I always have. Now I just have to try not to worry about all that. Lol!


PS I just re-read your post and I am currently IN Tornado Alley! Lol! I've watched them form right over my house and wipe out a small town to the North.

I know nothing about volcanos or this area of the US, but I do know that various tribes and cultures see the earth as a living being. If that was the case, then it is quite possible that one area has some kind of internal harmonic connection to another, not just a physically close area but one some way off and possibly half way around the world. Rather like if you injure your foot then your back may ache due to walking with a limp and muscles being exercised unevenly. We do tend to think of things which happen to the Earth in a disconnected way and we do the same for our bodies too. We forget each part is connected to the whole.

The picture painted in this thread of any kind of eruption is rather bleak but we also have forgotten to factor in the impact of any destruction of factories and nuclear power plants which may be in the path of the destruction. If that happens the area affected will be far worse due to the fall out of radioactive or toxic chemicals in addition to the ash from the volcano.

Could these strange signatures be the result of harmonics, rather like a wind instrument being blown and producing a note, so the volcano may be blowing magma down some tubes and producing ultrasonic sound waves which are being picked up on the instruments? We already know that volcanos do produce atmospheric noises and flashes of light and maybe this is what you are seeing and if we looked at other areas where noises/flashes are heard, we may see a similar thing on the instruments at those areas perhaps?

Anything which is large and moving quickly ending up in the lake is going to produce a tsunami and so that is likely to effect other areas of the lake with flooding and destruction as well.