Hitler and Mohammed

Doing my thing, watching WW2 documentary, and I relayed to my wife that a good way to understand the ISIS, and why an Islamic State is dangerous, is to think of the resultant militarization of an aggressive theocracy to be like....Nazis.

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So then I'm thinking how Mein Kampf, My Struggle, may actually have a parallel in ancient literature. Moreso, the life of Mohammed and the military offensives he lead, really are kind of like WW2 Germany.

So, in rough terms, the Koran is maybe a template for gaining "living space" for Islam. Surely we can compare fervent Nazi soldiers with Islamists in their focus and ruthless dedication....an attitude where no written law applied, except one that was dictated by a spiritual leader. These guys also share an anti-Jewish agenda, which were all aware of.

As a thought exercize, yes, there are parallels. Taking the step of searching online for connections, I was surprised at the range of links. I'll post a few and then duck out until I have a chance to review them and think it over. I'm wondering if other members have any thoughts...


shariaunveiled.files.wordpress.com...

“..the only religion I respect is Islam, the only prophet I admire is the prophet Muhammad..”

“..Hence today, I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator, by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of ALLAH.”
-Adolf Hitler | Mein Kampf

shariaunveiled.wordpress.com...

www.frontpagemag.com...

www.quora.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

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Not even close. Your average Nazi was just following orders. ISIS foot soldiers believe in Jihad. ISIS wants to establish a theocracy. Germany was a democracy.

Your whole premise is ludicrous.

Islam does not have an anti-Jew bias. The Arab world has an anti-Israel bias. There is a difference. Many Jewish communities thrive well and are protected in a host of Muslim nations across the world, as well as secular states with Muslim majorities.

I would say that the closest resemblance to Nazi Germany today would be in Israel, where all of the Gaza strip and increasingly the West Bank, are treated much like the Jewish ghettos of WW2. Compete with annual destruction of Hospitals, power generation facilities, schools, water treatment plants, and little children clearly playing soccer on the beach made clearly visible with USA's supplied optics and camera technology supplied to Israel through direct military aid.

No I dont think Islam is close to NAZI. For starters they do not discriminate against you based on skin color, eyes, hair, handicap, or nationality. Now if you want to talk about Sharia law related to NAZI, I would say Sharia law is even worse!

However, the biggest practitioner of Sharia laws most all are Europe and USA's strongest ally in the Middle East. So yea, that being the case, Sharia law = worse than NAZI, and USA and Europe = friends of kingdoms who strictly adhere to Sharia law; then one could make the connection that at the very least USA ad Europe are allied with Nazis. OMG ... I would say I am surprised, but im not

originally posted by: Logman
Germany was a democracy.

While I agree what you say, I cannot agree with the above statement. Germany, under Hitler, was not a democracy. The concentration camps and prisons held Germans too, including those who politically opposed Nazism.

That said, Nazism and ISIS share this cult status, are both racist ideologies considering "difference" as something to be exterminated. They also both rely on brutality to keep in power, with the violence being a driving force. Neither Nazism, nor ISIS could exist in a peaceful state.

I have made similar connections between the insanity of Hitler and the insanity in the darker parts of the Quran. Wait for the people that will hate your view because of political correctness who want Muhammad to be something else to solve a problem with Islam. Blindness and whitewashing did not solve the Nazi problem and will not solve the Islam problem either.

To be fair there are 3 branches of Islam:
Sunni, Shia and Sufi. Each can have their fundamentalistic streak like the Sunni with Salafi and Wahhabisim. Wahhabis are the ones who cause the most problem in the Middle east (Saudi Arabia, Isis and Al Qaeda)

Sufi is the mystical kind that meditate and go for experience who have tempered the insanity in the Quran with the Sufi masters like Rumi that called himself a heretic of Love. Rumi in a way rejecting all bad things Muhammad had written in the Quran. The Sufi preach non duality just like for instance Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus,Yeshua in the bible, Bahá'í.

Muhammad preached his followers are good and no one who reject him can be good.
Rumi preached that all people who are good are his soul brother/sister regardless of race, nationality and religion.

Zionism, Nazism and Wahhabism is the same dualistic curse at the core. The same we are the chosen people who have a right to rule the others. The only difference is what people are the chosen.

a reply to: FlyingFox

Hitler did take some ideas out of Islam. I am not saying he was a muslim, but he borrowed things from different ideologies. He wrote Mein Kampf while in prison. I don't recall the charge he was convicted of, but attempting to overthrow the state may have been close. It could have carried a very long sentence, but he managed to give a speech in court that resonated with the Germans of the time and got a short sentence of 7 years or something and ended up only doing 6-9 months before being released. His party lost the next two elections and he had to transform his parties ideas and statements to get popular support.

I watched a documentary on the history channel about it a while ago.

It just shows the confusion that originated when the Islamic ideology became interwoven with the ideology of the Nazis.

Of course it is characteristic of the existing politically correct climate that such thoroughly researched and well-founded historical works do not constitute part of any basic debate about Islam in the mainstream media. Presently Islam is part of an obsolete multicultural society; anybody criticizing this is a kind of Nazi. That the truth is in fact the other way around is a very unwelcome message: both Islamic and Nazi ideologies not only have common elements, but also have a common history. This continues today and by itself provides enough reason to dig further.

Yes, we know that Mein Kampf is popular in the Muslim world.

Yes, we know Amin el-Husseini[11], the Jew-hating Jerusalem Mufti, who was linked to the Muslim Brotherhood and who hooked up with the Nazi empire. We know that one picture of his meeting with Hitler. We know that after the war he was left unpunished and remained active in the Middle East.

The popularity of Mein Kampf in the Middle East is no coincidence.

Source

ETA: I am still not sure which ideas went to the Islamic world and which Hitler adopted. I would have to get into much deeper analysis to figure it out. However, I think there were thousands of Hitler's broadcasts directed toward the Arab world concerning Jews, which makes the issue a bit more confusing.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: FlyingFox

Hitler did take some ideas out of Islam. I am not saying he was a muslim, but he borrowed things from different ideologies. He wrote Mein Kampf while in prison.

Hitler wrote only parts of Mein Kampf, the more esoteric digressions can be attributed to Hess who, while not arrested in the immediate aftermath of the Putsch, pushed to get convicted so that he could be at Hitler's side throughout. It was Hess though, not Hitler, who had the deep interest in religion, astrology etc, and being born and raised in Egypt, had some cultural sophistication, something Hitler greatly lacked. Hess adored Hitler, but he also put alot of words into his mouth in order to create the Destiny-Illusion of Hitler as Germany's messiah.

a reply to: FlyingFox

"Moreso, the life of Mohammed and the military offensives he lead, really are kind of like WW2 Germany."

I got that far and instantly saw the bigotry and utter ignorance of this thread.

What a lot of rubbish. Perhaps the most ludicrous attempted comparison I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Bigoted, intolerant TRASH!

a reply to: Anaana

OK. I recall now about him writing the manuscript while in prison, but didn't realize Hesse was from Egypt and that he put things into it. That makes sense because if I remember he was the one that did a lot of the communications and dirty deeds for Hitler after they were in power.

The broadcasts were translated into Arabic by specialists employed by propaganda minister Josef Goebbels. Die Welt in Germany called Professor Herf’s discovery of the 6,000 transmissions from 1939 until 1945 'nothing less than a sensation'.

Professor Herf said, 'This propaganda campaign comprised an important chapter in the history of the war. The Arab language propaganda produced in wartime Berlin was a significant chapter in the longer history of radical Arab nationalism and militant Islam.' The verbatim transcripts of the broadcasts were made by the American embassy in Cairo in wartime and classified until 1977 in Washington.

Two years ago Professor Herf became the first scholar to get access to them. He added, 'Islamic fundamentalism, like European totalitarianism in the 20th century, was and is a mixture of very old and very modern elements. 'It is also a product of a mixture of some indigenous currents in the history of Islam with the hatred of democracy, liberalism and the Jews that were so central to National Socialism. 'The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians would have been over long ago were it not for the uncompromising, religiously inspired hatred of the Jews that were articulated and given assistance by Nazi propagandists and continued after the war by Islamists of various sorts.'

Source

And Goebbles of course. So, the more I read into it, it seems that a lot of Nazi ideology was spread into the Arab world which helped to make the extremist Islamic ideology more of what we see today. at least that is what this article above is implying.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: FlyingFox

"Moreso, the life of Mohammed and the military offensives he lead, really are kind of like WW2 Germany."

I got that far and instantly saw the bigotry and utter ignorance of this thread.

What a lot of rubbish. Perhaps the most ludicrous attempted comparison I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Bigoted, intolerant TRASH!

Good job representing, immediately jump to name calling and character assassination for anything you don't agree with rather that discuss and argue the case. Why post at all then?

Now I never knew about this supposed Waffen SS Division that was comprised of muslims. They would have gained some critical mechanized warfare knowledge with the SS as well.


Soldiers of the 13th SS Division with a brochure about "Islam and Judaism", 1943.

On 6 December 1942, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and key Waffen-SS recruiting officer SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS[a] Gottlob Berger approached Hitler with the proposal to raise a Bosnian Muslim SS division. Both the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS were concerned about the rapidly deteriorating security situation in the NDH that tied down German military personnel needed elsewhere.[6]

A German source noted that by 1943 over 100,000 Bosnian Muslims had been killed and 250,000 had become refugees. In addition, a serious food shortage threatened the region. "The Muslims," remarked SS-Gruppenführer und Generalleutnant der Waffen-SS Artur Phleps, "bear the special status of being persecuted by all others".[9] The romantic notions that Himmler had about the Bosnian Muslims were probably significant in the division's genesis.[11] He was personally fascinated by the Islamic faith and believed that Islam created fearless soldiers.[9] He found their ferocity preferable to the gentility of Christians and believed their martial qualities should be further developed and put to use.[11] He thought that Muslim men would make perfect SS soldiers as Islam "promises them Heaven if they fight and are killed in action."[12]

Himmler was inspired by the noted successes of the Bosnian-Herzegovinian Infantry in World War I. He "endeavored to restore what he called 'an old Austrian' tradition by reviving the Bosnian regiments of the former Austro-Hungarian Army in the form of a Bosnian Muslim SS Division".[14] Once raised, the division was to engage and destroy Josip Broz Tito's Partisan forces operating in north-eastern Bosnia, thus restoring local "order". Himmler's primary concern in the region was not the security of the local Muslim population, but the welfare of ethnic German settlers to the north in Syrmia. "Srem (Syrmia) is the breadbasket of Croatia, and hopefully it and our beloved German settlements will be secured. I hope that the area south of Srem will be liberated by ... the Bosnian division ... so that we can at least restore partial order in this ridiculous (Croatian) state."

Hitler formally approved the project in mid-February 1943 and Himmler put Artur Phleps, commander of the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen, in charge of raising the first SS division to be recruited from a non-Germanic people.

Source

Apparently there were interests going both ways. Until reading this, I would not have thought there would have been muslims in the SS. Of course Hitler would use anyone until he decided to turn on them.


ETA add pic

originally posted by: spirit_horse
And Goebbles of course. So, the more I read into it, it seems that a lot of Nazi ideology was spread into the Arab world which helped to make the extremist Islamic ideology more of what we see today. at least that is what this article above is implying.

Woah there! The Nazis and the former Ottoman states had a common enemy. That whole slice up of the Ottoman empire, coupled with Russian and British fighting over the Pashtun regions, and the militancy that engendered. The British trained and raised up local militaries, as did the Russian Empire...and later the US. Nazism didn't really die, it only repackaged itself as legitimate corporatism, alongside The City of London, and other corporate entities that had existed prior to them creating the Nazi state. The Nazis also worked with the Israelis militants, who were fighting the Arabs and their British allies in Palestine...so radicalisation all around.

70 year old alliances have long since morphed into newer forms that can be traced and evidenced with far greater clarity and immediate relevance.

a reply to: Anaana

No wonder we see the things today like Corporatism and what I call the 4th Reich rising. It takes time to get things turned around. I think the world is going to be facing some old demons much more in the near future that we thought were put down in WWII if I am getting the jist of your post right.

Well, it's factual that Nazism chimed with some Muslims Nazi Germany received practical support at a number of levels.

It is no secret that the Mein Kamph still sells well in the Muslim world. What all this fascism and Nazism represent is a narrow and bigoted view of the world, where difference is not tolerated and order is represented by a controlled worldview. Sadly, we see this in some parts of the Muslim world today.

Is that any different from any war, warlord that has ever existed

I don't think you can just label nazis and the state of Islam without looking at a broader fiel

a reply to: FlyingFox

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Doing my thing, watching WW2 documentary, and I relayed to my wife that a good way to understand the ISIS, and why an Islamic State is dangerous, is to think of the resultant militarization of an aggressive theocracy to be like....Nazis.

No, it isn't ... because everything you THINK you know about WWII is hogwash.

Stick to current events, and reality ... not theatrics, with John Wayne as the hero.

your morals are your religion you see poor moral behaviour not isms

look at them as cavemen fighting to be the alpha male or psycho ..

if someone comits a crime in our culture did we debate their religion ?

With a title like that I thought this was going to be a joke.
Hitler and Muhammad walk into a bar...

a reply to: CallYourBluff

The bartender runs for his life screaming "NO! F*** THIS JOKE!"


That was priceless ty

originally posted by: FlyingFox
“..Hence today, I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator, by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of ALLAH.”
-Adolf Hitler | Mein Kampf

I don't believe it says Allah, I believe it just says, the Lord.

However, I do not own a copy of Mein Kampf to check.

I did make this thread once (not sure I fully agree with my OP anymore), with a bunch of Hitler quotes relating to Christianity.

Make of them what you will.