Top U.S. Air Defense Commander: Turkey’s Shootdown of Russian Jet “Had to Be PRE-PLANNED”

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rosinitiate

It didnt have to threaten turkey. It violated sovereign airspace.. You guys are trying to change the narrative from didnt violate turkish airspace to didnt pose a threat to turkey.

Its simple - Russia needs to keep its armed aircraft out of sovereign turkish airspace.

True. An aircraft of another country does not have to threaten anything. Merely fly into another countries airspace and be warned .And there is an "unwritten" rule that in the times of military action there is a 12.5 mile buffer around any country around that engagement.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rosinitiate

yeah read my post, read what you posted and figure it out. You are trying to change the narrative. From didnt violate turkish airspace to only briefly violated it to didnt pose a threat to turkey.

What narrative? Yours? How about you start to discuss reasonably instead of trying to pretend in every post that anyone not supporting the terrorists is a Putinlover?

You think all of this is because Turkey is jealous of its borders? Not about oil, weapons and kurds? And doing this to a country that give you 50%+ of your energy and has more than 20$b per year of trades? And all this during a 17s violation of airspace and a drone and a few visual skirmish a month ago????????

Did you forget to take your pills in the last months??? Seems you forgot to read even your yellow journals.

You don't decide the narrative for everyone sorry, especially when it's as stupid as yours. No amount of legal right to shoot will justify this. It's a turkish suicidal move so it must be to cover a lot worse scandals.

a reply to: intrptr

No, I don't think it will turn out to be "OK", for Turkey if this escalates to something larger as a result.

Turkey did the wrong thing and it has been officially acknowledged now by a western military source. So if TSHTF, I think they will be very much on their own.

One would hope so anyway.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Thanks guys!
From your link there was an additional quote:

"This airplane was not making any maneuvers to attack the territory.

KAL 007 comes to mind....

a reply to: BobaFettish

No, I don't think it will turn out to be "OK", for Turkey if this escalates to something larger as a result.

Turkey did the wrong thing and it has been officially acknowledged now by a western military source.

Errr, Turkey is doing exactly what its NATO masters want it to. Any scolding by the US military is smoke and mirrors.

I think you might be correct the world has lost its mind this # isn't a video game, only a few million people suffering, oh well good thing we have sites like ATS so people can speak their opinion & get their rocks off...

Turkey is just simply following orders from higher up.

Such good little puppets they are... being so eager and willing to act as the bulldog to get the war battle party started with Russia once and for all.

Pre-planned? As in "if they violate our airspace again, then shoot them down"? Of course that was pre-planned. We'd expect the US military to do the exact same thing.

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
Pre-planned? As in "if they violate our airspace again, then shoot them down"? Of course that was pre-planned. We'd expect the US military to do the exact same thing.

How do you understand anything without the "local context"? You know the "environment" within which the event occurred? Never mind, you prolly don't understand the question, and I can't dumb it down any...


Actually, That is not what I would expect from any "reasonable" nation, especially the US, UK, EU, Russia, or China...The "excusing" the brief incursion is a more reasonable, peaceful, and more importantly, intelligent course of action. In all of this, Russia was not operating in Turkey, they did not, and were not attacking anything in Turkey; thus they were not a threat to Turkey in any way. The most that the incursion should warrant is a nasty email to Putin, but little more.

Now, Turkey will mistake Russia's kindness for a weakness that does not exist. They will shot at another Russian plane, Russia will shoot down the Turkish plane and the whole thing will begin to spiral out of control...Turkey has started WW3.

originally posted by: Orwells Ghost

You consider an air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16 to be "some old AAA"? Given a 17 second territorial overflight, I'd say it doesn't look good for the Turkish.

I didn't know it was a F-16, saw a picture of AAA. I guess the Turks now know they can take out the Russians at will.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The Turks know they can shoot down an unescorted bomber at will. Next time you can bet there will be an Su-35 not far away.

Of course it was pre-planned.

This wasn't the first time the Russians used Turkish air space un-welcomed. The Turks told the Russians to cut it out, the Russians didn't.

After the first time it happened, I'm sure the Turks were watching Russian routes and planning on delivering one simple warning that required immediate deviation of course or they would shoot it down.

October 6th, 2015:
www.theguardian.com...
From the Link:
“Nato has issued a stern ultimatum,” Erdoğan was quoted as saying at a press conference in Brussels by local media. “We cannot endure it. Some steps that we do not desire are being taken. It is not suitable for Turkey to accept them. This is also beyond the principles of Nato.”

But an escalation is what Russia wants. Russia wants ground troops in Syria. Hell, the Russians want ground troops in Turkey because Turkey is the source of rebel fighters in Syria. So, the Russians consistently ignored Turkish air space when flying sorties into Syria. Putin knew very well that Erdogan would respond by shooting a jet down; he also knew that it would provide an excuse to raise the acceptable amount of Russian escalation in the region so it can prepare the battle zones for Russian ground troops.

The missile defense and Russian navy emplacements are in the zone not to keep Assad in power, they are their to set the stage in a way that protects troops, armor, and supply lines.

The only question we can ask is if this is the Lusitania moment. Is this the escalation that leads to a new war to be declared?

A good write up on the situation:


www.zerohedge.com...
From the Link:
And again, all this is happening as both the French carrier de Gaulle and the US carrier CVN-75 USS Harry S. Truman are on their way to a very dangerous rendezvous off the Syrian coast.

a reply to: GenerationGap

I can agree with most of what you said. I'm not quite sure Putin particularly wants his ground forced stuck in another boondoggle. Fool me once and all that.

I think he already got what he wanted, S-400, 134 Sorties in Turkish friendly zones along the Turkish border. Yes ground troops but not Russian, preferably Assad's forces.

But I think most importantly was the crippling of the "human oil pipeline stretching the horizon" from Syria to Turkey.

I guess the only Turkey Obama will be pardoning this Thanksgiving is Erdogen.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

The fact Poland is throwing it's hat in the ring is interesting as well. They are likely just pissing their pants wondering if NATO will back Turkey. If NATO doesn't back Turkey, Poland is going to freak out. They watched Ukraine get gobbled up by the former head of the Soviet KGB with not so much as a Western whimper and now if Turkey is made unstable by Russian aggression they'll know that they too are with out Big Brother and will simply be a buffer zone that's flattened as Russia expands.

news.yahoo.com...
Moscow (AFP) - Russia's foreign ministry on Thursday slammed as "extraordinarily dangerous" Poland's call to annul a NATO act that prevents it from having permanent military bases on its soil.

Zakharova said that Waszczykowski's statement was part of an attempt to rally Western public opinion ahead of next year's NATO summit in Warsaw and that the annulment of the deal could "bring down the existing European security system."

The 1997 document stipulates that older NATO members "have no intention, no plan and no reason to deploy nuclear weapons on the territory of new members" like Poland, Hungary or the Baltic countries.

a reply to: GenerationGap

There is a russian base in Belarus and Russia and Poland share a border. Why should Poland not be able to enhance their security? I mean there is a russian airbase like 50 miles from turkey inside syria.

Also there are sanctions in place against Russia so there was a response.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rosinitiate

It didnt have to threaten turkey. It violated sovereign airspace.. You guys are trying to change the narrative from didnt violate turkish airspace to didnt pose a threat to turkey.

Its simple - Russia needs to keep its armed aircraft out of sovereign turkish airspace.

LMFAO!

You're funny, old sport.

originally posted by: GenerationGap
a reply to: Rosinitiate

The fact Poland is throwing it's hat in the ring is interesting as well. They are likely just pissing their pants wondering if NATO will back Turkey. If NATO doesn't back Turkey, Poland is going to freak out. They watched Ukraine get gobbled up by the former head of the Soviet KGB with not so much as a Western whimper and now if Turkey is made unstable by Russian aggression they'll know that they too are with out Big Brother and will simply be a buffer zone that's flattened as Russia expands.

news.yahoo.com...
Moscow (AFP) - Russia's foreign ministry on Thursday slammed as "extraordinarily dangerous" Poland's call to annul a NATO act that prevents it from having permanent military bases on its soil.

Zakharova said that Waszczykowski's statement was part of an attempt to rally Western public opinion ahead of next year's NATO summit in Warsaw and that the annulment of the deal could "bring down the existing European security system."

The 1997 document stipulates that older NATO members "have no intention, no plan and no reason to deploy nuclear weapons on the territory of new members" like Poland, Hungary or the Baltic countries.

The west didn't whimper because they're directly responsible for the cluster# in Ukraine. Russia knows this, and they know they can make America look extremely bad if provoked.

a reply to: Flesh699

It may be funny but its also true.

To attack the Russian bomber with a close-range air-to-air missile, the Turkish fighter jet had to enter Syrian airspace, where it remained for about 40 seconds. Having launched its missile from a distance of 5-7 kilometers, the F-16 immediately turned towards the Turkish border, simultaneously dropping its altitude sharply, thus disappearing from the range of Russian radars at the Khmeimim airbase.

Russia seems to be very clear in their accusations. Turkish F-16 in Syrian airspace for 40 seconds.

www.rt.com...

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Or they engaged while in turkish airspace and the missile, which had a 30 second delay from firing to impact, impacted after the jet left turkish airspace.