Putin will respond: Russians feel betrayed as Turkey stabs them in the back

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ahhh...I forgot, thanksgiving a North American holiday.

It just that, the Bear outweigh the Turkey by a half a ton or two. Also, a Turkey cant fly like an Eagle.

a reply to: Specimen

Yet all can be killed by a gun and arent invincible.

originally posted by: Mastronaut
Nobody is saying that russians, provided turkish data are correct, aren't at fault, I still need to see a tribunal decision tho, despite I tend to think they DID violate Turkey airspace. However legality this days is absolutely ignored by the same turkish airforce in Greece and Syria, but that doesn't matter does it?


Greek Turkish border is a joke . As i said it before , if I was to take Greek claims seriously then I would need a Greek Visa to swim in my own swimming pool .
You need to take a look at that Greek claim ; you may find it interesting so see the assumptions and presumptions behind their border violation claims.

So what is your point?

That Putin is a certified killer and Erdogan is most populary elected politician.

My use of Crimea was related to the alleged validity of Crimean votes for annexation. I didn't want to go into that diatribe since it had no connection to what I was talking about.

Considering the fact that Ukraine might ask for Turkish Military assistance against Russian aggresion , well , i think it is connected .
Russian aggresion in Ukraine & Syria are the main culprits imho.


It doesn't seem he is doing it openly, from one side he pretends to join EU and on the other suicides his country reputation with a move that could spark WWIII.

As I said , current model of EU is not suitable for Turks to join. As for Turks move to initiate ww3 ? Well I found that to be a bit of stretch too . Its only 1 plane that was shot down .

And you should ask why only America, the land of freedom. But seems your leader has been able to piss a lot of americans too. And remember, at the UN you need 1 voting day to get from king to nothing. If the US and Russia ends up with a deal in Syria it will be with kurds and that's why your president wants Russia and America to stay away from each other.

USA & Russia are on the opposing sides and Turks are allies of USA . I think you are reading too much into Russian & American alliance . It can only be a hostile takeover between the two , chasm between the two nations is unbridgeable . Kurds of Northern Iraq are getting ready to join with Turks in a proper referandum . I don't know where you get your information but you are lacking the basics . YPG Kurds are following a marxist - leninist political and economic model , I don't see how USA & Russia are going to make a deal with YPG Kurds .
Most Kurds are sunni muslims and they are more fundementalists or more islamists if you like , then the Turks themselves .




Ye, it will not cost concessions, it's free, it's there, Turkey can't go broke. Who's hypnotizing you?

Following the 9/11 event , all the muslim money has begun a flight from western banking . They are all heading for Turkey because it's the only one they can trust their money with . In the west ,their money is confiscated by bogus charges of terrorism.
So in a way the policy that the neo-cons & zionists followed have made it possible for Turks to recieve huge amount of investment .
Turkish central bank had 2 of it's workers arrested on the charges of spying . It's the billion dollar question ; How many trucks of dollars can Turks brign to Central bank if need be ?
I am not hypnotised , you are lacking vital information . I didn't say Turks can't go broke . I implied that they have enough funds to see thru a crises .



Back garden that is called ISIS in Syria, smuggling of oil and Sharia law. I'd bet Israel will not let the USA funding Erdogan too much.

ISIS has no real roots in the Islamic world. It is a bogeyman built to scare citizens into accepting a micro chipped livingand outlawing cash .
Servitute loop is actually around every westeners necks . Israel is not the only power hub in USA .
In fact I bet you that once the Russians release the info on 9/11 , USA will become the number 1 anti-israel country in the world.
Israel is scared that the Turks will take back their old lands and Israel also wants a greater israel too .
This is a subject for another thread though.



It didn't work at all, it just showed Turkey is so desperate that hopes to drag the US-coalition into war with Russia before ISIS gets flattened or gets boring on tv (either of the two).
We know Erdogan's target (removing Assad), we know that this move just rendered that target much harder in the eyes of western people who witnessed war crimes from turkmens and other anti-assad rebels and know who they are backed by.

What are the vital informations that I need to understand the mighty new islamic state milita of Turkey? Care to provide a link every now and then in your nationalistic ramblings?

Evidently there is no war in sight at the moment between Russia & Nato. Turks are going to send out 30.000 soldiers into Syria to fight off the ISIS menace while securing Turkmens future too .
If there is any conflict to happen between Nato & Russia , it is when the Turkish troops are on the ground.
You really seem to think that Turks are powerless to have any say in anything concerning their own security . Whatever on earth makes you think like that ?
Turks are 80 million and this is THEIR border with THEIR ethnic kins being murdered by Russians .
You think the Turks will just sit back and take whatever Russians dishes out on them and their border security ?
This is dangerously wishfull thinking and this type of basic error might actually cause WW3 .

Asad is a murderous genocidal thug and yo better off treat him as such. So far almost 400.000 Syrians died and ovr 3 million Syrians ae refugees .
The fact that the %80 of Syrians and surrounding population of Syria are against Asad's rule.
That is the most basic , vital information you don't seem to take into account in your evaluations.
I am not being nationalistic and I am certainly not rambling , maybe a bit ranting but thats all .
The new dynamics of the new world order gives back the Turks their old seat on the table .
Turks will go on to form muslim union of 1.5 miilion sunnis and revive the Caliph .

edit on 29-11-2015 by 23432 because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: 23432

You need to take a look at that Greek claim ; you may find it interesting so see the assumptions and presumptions behind their border violation claims.

You can provide a link to show how those claims are wrong. Until then it's just your words on an internet forum.

That Putin is a certified killer and Erdogan is most populary elected politician.

So the 40k kurds dead because of the war on PKK of which Erdogan is part of are not important compared to the unsourced possibility that the director of the equivalent NSA in Russia after the soviet union collapse MAY have killed somebody in a covop.

As I said , current model of EU is not suitable for Turks to join. As for Turks move to initiate ww3 ? Well I found that to be a bit of stretch too . Its only 1 plane that was shot down .

The EU is your only chance to survive, you would at least collapse when the BCE collapses which is at least half a decade more than what you could do by yourselves.
If you don't realize how big is the mistake of giving Putin the perfect event to brag about and put Turkey's connections to terrorism in the face of western media then you have a big issue in understanding what consequences will face an entire country for a stupid aggression. An overreaction that showed the world who are the people that you allegedly protected, war criminals.
In a single move you #ed up your relations with Russia/Iran, the BCE, the shia arab countries and the public opinion of all western countries. For what? To show you exist as a military force? You won't exist for long now thanks to this move.

USA & Russia are on the opposing sides and Turks are allies of USA . I think you are reading too much into Russian & American alliance . It can only be a hostile takeover between the two , chasm between the two nations is unbridgeable . Kurds of Northern Iraq are getting ready to join with Turks in a proper referandum . I don't know where you get your information but you are lacking the basics . YPG Kurds are following a marxist - leninist political and economic model , I don't see how USA & Russia are going to make a deal with YPG Kurds .
Most Kurds are sunni muslims and they are more fundementalists or more islamists if you like , then the Turks themselves .

You are delusional, source your claims because they are the opposite of the obvious situation. When Barzani won't be able to sell you oil you are done. Kurdistan will be formed with northern Iraq and Syria, with the Erdogan policy going out of the window since they were just used as smugglers.

originally posted by: 23432
Following the 9/11 event , all the muslim money has begun a flight from western banking . They are all heading for Turkey because it's the only one they can trust their money with . In the west ,their money is confiscated by bogus charges of terrorism.
So in a way the policy that the neo-cons & zionists followed have made it possible for Turks to recieve huge amount of investment .
Turkish central bank had 2 of it's workers arrested on the charges of spying . It's the billion dollar question ; How many trucks of dollars can Turks brign to Central bank if need be ?
I am not hypnotised , you are lacking vital information . I didn't say Turks can't go broke . I implied that they have enough funds to see thru a crises .

Source?

Evidently there is no war in sight at the moment between Russia & Nato. Turks are going to send out 30.000 soldiers into Syria to fight off the ISIS menace while securing Turkmens future too .
If there is any conflict to happen between Nato & Russia , it is when the Turkish troops are on the ground.
You really seem to think that Turks are powerless to have any say in anything concerning their own security . Whatever on earth makes you think like that ?
Turks are 80 million and this is THEIR border with THEIR ethnic kins being murdered by Russians .
You think the Turks will just sit back and take whatever Russians dishes out on them and their border security ?
This is dangerously wishfull thinking and this type of basic error might actually cause WW3 .

The dangerous wishful thinking is yours. There will not be 30k troops in Syria unless you send them directly with black bags. Your ethnic allies are fighting a proxy war and are war criminals. Pardon me if I won't believe that it's actually the reason for the shootdown. Your border security is to ensure ISIS and other rebels is supplied with weapons and paid back in oil. This won't last, your nationalistic ottoman bubble will explode and it seems it will explode soon given the desperate move of this week.

Asad is a murderous genocidal thug and yo better off treat him as such. So far almost 400.000 Syrians died and ovr 3 million Syrians ae refugees .
The fact that the %80 of Syrians and surrounding population of Syria are against Asad's rule.

Show the polls please. There is a reason that nobody wants new elections as a solution to the conflict: Assad will have the majority FOR SURE. And Turkey is a big player in the death of those 400k so blaming it on a scapegoat isn't going to clear your government murders

That is the most basic , vital information you don't seem to take into account in your evaluations.
I am not being nationalistic and I am certainly not rambling , maybe a bit ranting but thats all .
The new dynamics of the new world order gives back the Turks their old seat on the table .
Turks will go on to form muslim union of 1.5 miilion sunnis and revive the Caliph .

You are dangerously nationalists. The reality is Turkey just committed suicide and if is backed up by people like you I don't think there's going to be a better scapegoat to end this war.

originally posted by: Mastronaut

You can provide a link to show how those claims are wrong. Until then it's just your words on an internet forum.

Actually it is the truth not just words on an internet forum. You however might feel free to ignore the truth , as it is your progative to do so .




The EU is your only chance to survive, you would at least collapse when the BCE collapses which is at least half a decade more than what you could do by yourselves.

EU is not the only chance to survive . Economy might stagnate and deflate but it wouldn't collapse.


If you don't realize how big is the mistake of giving Putin the perfect event to brag about and put Turkey's connections to terrorism in the face of western media then you have a big issue in understanding what consequences will face an entire country for a stupid aggression.

Look Turks knew thats what would be cooked up and served . Of course , Turks the big bad baddies and they would be the choosen ones to be sacrificed at the altar of " New World Order " .
Turks not getting a favourable coverage or friendship from West & Russia & Iran etc , etc ?
Yeah as if that is the first time in history this is happening .

But it is certain that in 1922 Sultan Mohammed Vl put it quite succinctly and pointedly, when he told the American writer E. Alexander Powell:

“If we sent one, your newspapers and periodicals would not publish an article written by a Turk, if they published it, your people would not read it, if they read it, they would not believe it.

Even if we sent a qualified person to America, to convey to you in your language, the Turkish point of view, would he find an impartial audience?” [Gurun, File, p. 37] 1922 - Istanbul .

Turks don't expect any favours .





You won't exist for long now thanks to this move.

is that a fact or is that your wish ?



You are delusional, source your claims because they are the opposite of the obvious situation. When Barzani won't be able to sell you oil you are done.

Barzani and Peshmerga wants nothing to do with PYD - PKK Kurds . They rather align with Turks as they have plenty of relatives in Turkey. A Kurdish inner fight is what you are going to get in any case .

Kurdistan will be formed with northern Iraq and Syria, with the Erdogan policy going out of the window since they were just used as smugglers.

Kurdistan if formed across Iraq & Syria , thats going to need Barzani and peshmerga support .
Barzani just condemned Russians and promised Kurdish Gas for next 50 years . Also Aliyev of Azerbaycan has also promised to increase oil supplied to Turks . Turkmenistan is also offering the same .

Erdogan is the biggest supporter of Kurdistan in North Iraq , a visit to Arbil would tell you quickly that % 95 of investment is coming from Turkey .
When Kurdistan is formed , they will join with Turks . You see Kurds like also to be the owners of Istanbul and Turkey . You do know that Kurds jokingly call Turkey Kurdey ?
As long as you don't understand the bond that ties the Turk & Kurd together ; you'll never understand why things are the way they are .
I grew up with Kurd & Turk & Arab & Greek & Armenian & Persian peeps , I live in Istanbul and also have Kurdish Nieces and Nephews .
You paint a picture of a Kurd & Turk which has nothing to do with reality .






The dangerous wishful thinking is yours. There will not be 30k troops in Syria unless you send them directly with black bags. Your ethnic allies are fighting a proxy war and are war criminals. Pardon me if I won't believe that it's actually the reason for the shootdown. Your border security is to ensure ISIS and other rebels is supplied with weapons and paid back in oil. This won't last, your nationalistic ottoman bubble will explode and it seems it will explode soon given the desperate move of this week.

It is not a nationalistic bubble . Ottomans were not nationalistic they were for the Ummah . I understand that you've read some sources and haven't read some others . If it's a bubble like you say , firstly it is not a nationalistic one . Secondly it involves 1.5 billion muslims who look up to Turks & see Istanbul as their Capital too .

There is no evidence to prove Erdogan was doing anything wrong . Why do you think International Courts are silent ?

USA & Turks are having preliminary talks about the 30.000 troops to fight ISIS & Protect Turkmen .
If you are implying that the Syrians will kill these soldiers then I would have to laugh .
If you are implying that the Russians will kill these soldiers then I would have to ask at what cost to Russians ?



You are dangerously nationalists. The reality is Turkey just committed suicide and if is backed up by people like you I don't think there's going to be a better scapegoat to end this war.

Nationalism is a sin and is forbidden in Quran . So I am not a nationalist nor racist nor religionist . I not even an Islamist - as you would call some muslims.

I am just giving you the other side of the story you believe in and it is making you not very happy .

The source for the flight of muslim money from the west is in Turkish and as far as I can tell you don't speak Turkish .

You dehumanise Turks & Turkmen and you toe a line dangerously close to KKK vision of Turks.

Russian racism towards Turks are legendary , thugs hunt you down in the streets of Moscow if you don't look " Right " .
Dark skinned people have a nightmare with Russian nationalists and they chant all the KKK sh1te you can think of .

USA & Russia together ,hell yeah , let's kill some brown folks ideology could help explain your stand on this matter .

People like you wants to believe that West and Russia could murder lots of muslims and there would be no trouble .

You seem like pitting Christianity against islam and you are perplexingly convinced that Turks are stupid and easy to defeat .

Meanwhile the main opposition party has just nominated a Christian Turkish Woman in Turkey as Leader of the party .

Huntingdon much dear ? Have we Clashed the Civilisations yet ?

originally posted by: 23432
Actually it is the truth not just words on an internet forum. You however might feel free to ignore the truth , as it is your progative to do so .

You are free to educate me with a few links supporting your view.

EU is not the only chance to survive . Economy might stagnate and deflate but it wouldn't collapse.

As long as you are "useful" for NATO, but things are changing.

Look Turks knew thats what would be cooked up and served . Of course , Turks the big bad baddies and they would be the choosen ones to be sacrificed at the altar of " New World Order " .
Turks not getting a favourable coverage or friendship from West & Russia & Iran etc , etc ?
Yeah as if that is the first time in history this is happening .

But it is certain that in 1922 Sultan Mohammed Vl put it quite succinctly and pointedly, when he told the American writer E. Alexander Powell:

“If we sent one, your newspapers and periodicals would not publish an article written by a Turk, if they published it, your people would not read it, if they read it, they would not believe it.

Even if we sent a qualified person to America, to convey to you in your language, the Turkish point of view, would he find an impartial audience?” [Gurun, File, p. 37] 1922 - Istanbul .

If your country wanted some kind of freedom it's NATO that you should dump. But it seems your president is even more aggressive than the US would want.
Turks don't expect any favours .

is that a fact or is that your wish ?

Absolutely not, but compromising your bordering countries in favour of an oversea country that meddles in your affairs since a hundred years is going to blow up together with the imperialistic attitude of such country. And guess who pays? Your people.

Barzani and Peshmerga wants nothing to do with PYD - PKK Kurds . They rather align with Turks as they have plenty of relatives in Turkey. A Kurdish inner fight is what you are going to get in any case .

Kurdistan mafia is just that, a mafia. They go where there are money and will trade Erdogan's ass for their nation any day.
You think Barzani approved your raids in Iraq? Show me a link.

Kurdistan if formed across Iraq & Syria , thats going to need Barzani and peshmerga support .
Barzani just condemned Russians and promised Kurdish Gas for next 50 years . Also Aliyev of Azerbaycan has also promised to increase oil supplied to Turks . Turkmenistan is also offering the same .

Please provide sources for these claims. 50 years for how many barrel per year? Give us some percentage of coverage compared to the 90% provided today by Russia.

Erdogan is the biggest supporter of Kurdistan in North Iraq , a visit to Arbil would tell you quickly that % 95 of investment is coming from Turkey .
When Kurdistan is formed , they will join with Turks . You see Kurds like also to be the owners of Istanbul and Turkey . You do know that Kurds jokingly call Turkey Kurdey ?
As long as you don't understand the bond that ties the Turk & Kurd together ; you'll never understand why things are the way they are .
I grew up with Kurd & Turk & Arab & Greek & Armenian & Persian peeps , I live in Istanbul and also have Kurdish Nieces and Nephews .
You paint a picture of a Kurd & Turk which has nothing to do with reality .

Again, unsourced claims based on anectodal evidence. I'm pretty sure that no israeli jew would come here to say that Israel will support Palestine because he grew up with some arabs. That's more or less what you are saying.

It is not a nationalistic bubble . Ottomans were not nationalistic they were for the Ummah . I understand that you've read some sources and haven't read some others . If it's a bubble like you say , firstly it is not a nationalistic one . Secondly it involves 1.5 billion muslims who look up to Turks & see Istanbul as their Capital too .

There is no evidence to prove Erdogan was doing anything wrong . Why do you think International Courts are silent ?

USA & Turks are having preliminary talks about the 30.000 troops to fight ISIS & Protect Turkmen .
If you are implying that the Syrians will kill these soldiers then I would have to laugh .
If you are implying that the Russians will kill these soldiers then I would have to ask at what cost to Russians ?

Turkmen just committed war crimes live on youtube. You are sending 30k people to die to protect oil smuggling and anti-Assad terrorists, not protect turkmen. You believe in Santa if you think it's about turkmen.
Erdogan is basically trying to change the constitution to become a Caliph and is doing this with terror attacks on kurds and on its own people. In the west we call this a coup and 1.5 billion muslims will just want Turkey to go # off with their american backup. Not sure why you think any arab will want a turk owner after the # is going on in Syria.

Nationalism is a sin and is forbidden in Quran . So I am not a nationalist nor racist nor religionist . I not even an Islamist - as you would call some muslims.

I am just giving you the other side of the story you believe in and it is making you not very happy .

The source for the flight of muslim money from the west is in Turkish and as far as I can tell you don't speak Turkish .

If you have only one source post it. Nationalism is exactly what's doing Erdogan unless you have a personal definition for nationalism. Second step in Erdogan's plan is imperialism. I'ts VERY dangerous.

You dehumanise Turks & Turkmen and you toe a line dangerously close to KKK vision of Turks.

How? By not accepting your unsourced claims? Or because I think that your people will pay big time this overreaction which is asslicking muslims' n°1 enemy?

Russian racism towards Turks are legendary , thugs hunt you down in the streets of Moscow if you don't look " Right " .
Dark skinned people have a nightmare with Russian nationalists and they chant all the KKK sh1te you can think of .

I won't debate that, but if you justify last week's event (downing of a non aggressive plane, war crimes on a parachuting pilot + downing of a rescue mission, killing and imprisonment of journalists, etc) with counter-racism then you basically would justify flattening Africa from europe. It seems after all YOU ARE racist.

USA & Russia together ,hell yeah , let's kill some brown folks ideology could help explain your stand on this matter .
People like you wants to believe that West and Russia could murder lots of muslims and there would be no trouble .

I do believe that all muslisms killed are a shame for our society, but you forget that geopolitics is not about people, it's about money, and your leader isn't different, is just meddling with you people.
I don't think that turks are easy to deafet, they are ALREADY DEFEATED because you are not fighting for your country. Basically you are playing an unpaid mercenary country role.

Source your claim or they are worthless.