Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

originally posted by: oddnutz
So if Turkey play nice and stay on their side of the border and leave Russian aircraft alone then all will be fine?
If Turkey make incursions into Syrian airspace they will been seen as hostile and be attacked by Russia or if Turkish aircraft move to intercept russian aircraft they will be seen as hostile and attacked by Russia?
So Turkey has the choice to back right down or engage in hostilities with Russia leaving Nato to decide whether they start WW3 or abandon Turkey?

The problem that seems to be missed is that Turkey has not been playing nice on their side, when it comes to Daesh, they have safety within Turkey. They use this as a means to go back and forth and continue their onslaught upon the people of Syria.

We have the world calling for action against Daesh, however those within NATO are eerily silent about where these people have been originating. They do not magically appear in Syria, all one needs to do is tune into the growing rebellion against Erdogan within his own country to understand how the good people of Turkey are understandably uncomfortable with the safe haven Daesh has on their side of the border.

nice compilation of revelations over the past couple of years.

A year later, further evidence of support for ISIS emerged when an ISIS jihadist indicated that the Turkish government had delivered stocks of weapons and military hardware to the group's fighters in Syria. Mehmet Askar, now being tried in a high criminal court in Turkey along with eleven other suspected ISIS fighters, revealed that a 2011 plan to transfer arms to ISIS and to an-Nusra Front, as well as to the more moderate Free Syrian Army, was hampered by the Syrian army's capture of a key border town. Askar's accomplice, Haisam Toubalijeh, who was involved in a weapons transfer thwarted in 2013 by Turkish forces, reassured him that contacts inside the Turkish state would help facilitate the movement of the cache, which included some one hundred NATO rifles.[6] The secret was out.

a reply to: elementalgrove

I think TURKEY i splaying both sides of th efence here. Openly they oppose ISIS but sceretly they are going behind NATO's back and supplying them.

a reply to: Now_Then

I don't think they actually violate your borders though do they?

Actually they did it happened multiple times..
And they turned around while heading to your airspace, and violated ours a second time on the same day

a reply to: Now_Then

They enter the ADIZ, which is the positive identification point before crossing into the airspace. They usually enter then turn away, sometimes allowing an intercept to monitor radio and radar frequencies.

Almost half the flights near the US last year we didn't even bother to launch aircraft to intercept them.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: elementalgrove

I think TURKEY i splaying both sides of th efence here. Openly they oppose ISIS but sceretly they are going behind NATO's back and supplying them.

Aye and it is a very dangerous game that they are playing!

a reply to: Now_Then

I don't think they actually violate your borders though do they? They fly into your area's of interest to probe your reaction times just like they do with ours (UK) - I know this is such a tiny difference in that part of the world, I mean they are talking down to a few hundred meters realistically and in a jet aeroplane! But the UK would have to shoot them down if they continued on into our actual airspace.

I knew a jet pilot back in the cold war that was tasked to intercept and escort back Russian bombers intruding into Canadian airspace. It was no "few hundred meters" intrusion and considered normal routine. The usual response was to escort them politely out of Canadian airspace.

But to shoot down a Russian jet for such a small incursion demonstrate clearly an intent to draw NATO into a fight with the Russian. I hope NATO will warn the turkey to play it safe, as such Russian misbehavior does not constitute an attack against a NATO member, thus not against NATO itself.

originally posted by: 0bserver1
The Russian violated our airspace many times and we the Danish and the UK escort them politely out of our airspace. If we shot down every Russian bomber any time Russia was invading our airspace we would have had WWIII just behind us right now.

But to actually shoot down like Turkey did is just foolish..

If they comply with the warning , sure you dont take them down. If they were to continue on , you order them to land. If they do not , within a reasonable amount of time , you take em down. That is the "rule of thumb" for all countries. And there are no military actions going on around those countries. That makes it a difference as well.

This incident will pass into history as well. No WW3 over this one. I know , pity isnt it ? To let this fade from memory with no escalations on either side. It has happened before and may well happen again. Gonna take more than this to start the "Big Un"

originally posted by: Gothmog
This incident will pass into history as well. No WW3 over this one. I know , pity isnt it ? To let this fade from memory with no escalations on either side. It has happened before and may well happen again. Gonna take more than this to start the "Big Un"

One thing can be learnt from this, and that is the lines have been drawn, and if one crosses the line. Whoever respond to crossing that line decides whether this tensions escalating any further.

Saying this will pass into history is too earlier to call, imho. Right now, Russia is most likely weighing out it's options by now, for a potential war with Turkey, and that means pulling NATO in on this as well.

It's still a high stakes game, given the motive is as we know, it is about the "oil rich middle east". It's a gamble and anything can go wrong from here.

Let's see it this way rather, if any more military actions are taken by Turkey against Russia no matter how valid it maybe for Turkey, it will only anger the Russian public to pressure Putin into war.

It really is month of the doom-porn isn't it?

The papers have jumped all over this like it's the beginning of the end of the world, with other recent events propping up these clickbait/paper selling beliefs.

It seems like all the major players have experienced some "terror" incitement to take punitive military action against a force within Syria's borders, with the exception of US/UK and Saudi Arabia.

Remind me, who bombed the peace protest in Turkey just a month ago...Turkish govt goons?

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Remind me, who bombed the peace protest in Turkey just a month ago...Turkish govt goons?

Yep Turkeys got some internal problem alright - Turkey: Next stop civil war?

ETA:

Turkish tourism to be first victim of Russian jet crisis

In a deeply worrying turn of events on Tuesday, Turkish tour operators were biting their nails after Turkey's downing of a Russian fighter jet provoked Moscow to urge citizens to avoid Turkey trips, potentially meaning a major blow to the country's nearly $4 billion in revenue from Russian visitors per year.

For many years, millions of Russian tourists have been the primary source of tourism revenue for Turkey. In 2014 alone, 4.48 million Russian tourists visited Turkey, bringing in revenue of nearly $4 billion, official figures showed. Turkey hosts some 40 million tourists who generate $34.3 billion in revenue every year.

Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border on Tuesday, saying it had repeatedly violated its airspace. Hours after the event, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Tuesday advised Russians not to visit Turkey, adding that the threat of terrorism there was no less than in Egypt, where a bomb attack brought down a Russian passenger plane last month.

a reply to: 0bserver1

The UK department of defense has stated that the Russians have never violated UK airspace. They come close, but have never crossed the 12 mile border across the sea. There is a vast difference between testing borders (at sea) and actually crossing a land border with a fricking armed bomber.

Putin is an arrogant d.ckhead and Turkey have slapped him. He will not provoke the situation but he won't say/do nothing. Quite what line he will take midway to appease the Russian voter but at the same time save face we shall see in the coming days.

On a side note but highly relevant I think this incident should highlight to the "bomb the ISIS ba.stards" that Syria is a complicated tinderbox. Additional shooting from the hip by France now and the UK before Xmas does not help but will increase the possibility of further "accidental incursions and friendly fire incidents".

Cameron will get his way once he has bought the rebellious backbenchers into line (NB bought not brought !). The papers will ignore this and blame the evil baby eating terrorist sympathiser Jeremy Corbyn for the delay.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

I wasn't talking about the UK. .

Imo it would take a series of following events cascading into something that no side will budge on to even begin to consider it turning into a world war. If Turkey shot down repeated jets over the course of days.. even ones moderately close to their border.. ok.. maybe that would escalate into something. People think WWIII will start every time a country gives another one an allegorical punch on their arm.

I think it was a dumb move by Turkey, but Russia is hardly faultless. I am sure Crimea will be in many surrounding countries minds for a while.

Random thought...maybe this is why Obama recently purged his top brass in the military? How many generals and admirals did he lay-off/fire/force retirement of? Probably just enough to get the rest to go along with whatever it is he's doing for ISIS.