Black Lives Matter Protesters Were Just Shot by White Supremacists

a reply to: dragonridr

Can you link some of your research?

Your summary seems a bit ... brief.

Thanks.

a reply to: dragonridr

I agree wholeheartedly, I think you just won the thread. As far as black American culture I just don't know, seems like a huge negative feedback loop. But it also seems to me like blacks have been targeted to a certain extent, I think Alex Jones mentions the break up of the black family as a big reason, the divorce rate.. liberal policies of appeasement and a lack of functioning families.. couple that with fatherless children and the appeal of thug culture to young impressionable youth.. The CIA and the crack epidemic sure didn't help either. I guess this is what can happen when you remove a people from their context.

Garvey wanted back to Africa, but the ruling class wanted a permanent lower class. They should send all available tiger moms from China to the hood, see if they can make it work.. we'll probably end up with a fusion of classical music and rap though since Wu-Tang already did the kung-fu thing..

Oh, and sent you a PM Gryphon.

I keep being astonished at what I read here.

Black America does not exist entirely in inner city ghettos.

That's one of the many things I read here while shaking my head incredulously.

I live in Atlanta in an area known as Druid Hills near Emory University, the CDC, etc. Within two miles in any direction, there are predominantly Black neighborhoods that don't have any higher crime than the contingent predominantly White neighborhoods, the houses and yards are well-kept, new cars in the driveway, complete families, etc. Good people, friendly, some great restaurants, etc.

Now, there are "bad" neighborhoods some Black, some White, some Hispanic, etc. But those "hoods" are the exception rather than the rule and they are always associated with extremely low-income populations, again, Black, White, Hispanic ... and probably Asian, Native American and so forth (in different parts of the country).

I just feel like the only experience that some of you have with actual Black Americans comes from watching old reruns of Good Times or something or what you see plastered on the media.

All of Black America does not live in an inner city housing project rife with gangland violence.

a reply to: Xtrozero

First, thanks for responding -- I really didn't expect one. I may not have deserved one. I was angry and frustrated when I wrote it. At the same time, I am glad to the extent it you were able to expand on your position.

Second:

Cops mirror the society they work in. If the society is bad, like Chicago, then they will be bad too.

I think this says it all, but not the way you meant. Chicago is corrupt to its soul and pretty much ALWAYS has been. Like I said: The rot starts at the top!!! Or, to paraphrase your words, the people mirror the authorities in their society. If the authorities are bad, like Chicago, then the people will be bad too. And this works on various levels. Chicago, like Baltimore, was notorious for their redlining policies. Chicago, like Baltimore, is also notorious for high lead levels in paint, which we know causes mental impairment. Let's talk about the MMR vaccine which many say also cause mental impairment when given before 36 months, and at a much higher rate for Black boys than White boys, much higher than for girls.

If I can't trust the police... if I can't trust the authorities... then I cannot trust their laws, their procedures, their arrest reports or their statistics.

Yes, there is a problem. A HUGE problem. And no one wants those problems addressed and resolved more than the mothers who worry for their sons every single day. But they're working against a HUGE machine that is determined to keep them victims for political (and other) exploitation and extortion. And this thread is a perfect example of how that works... BLM has the support they have because people -- especially the Black people most affected -- know they need help, and they don't know how to help themselves, which opens them up to even more exploitation... and the vicious cycle continues.

Did the OP say that they were "alleged"?

Well, they're all the same thing anyway; they're all racists looking into the mirror.

But I think he said they were "alleged" to be white supremacists.

originally posted by: Fromabove
Did the OP say that they were "alleged"?

Well, they're all the same thing anyway; they're all racists looking into the mirror.

But I think he said they were "alleged" to be white supremacists.

Yes, in line with site T&C, OP titled the thread after the title of the article they cited.

The most direct source of evidence for the "white supremacist" charge is from the protesters themselves.

Hopefully, we'll know more at the arraignment of the four shooters.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Let's talk about the MMR vaccine which many say also cause mental impairment when given before 36 months, and at a much higher rate for Black boys than White boys, much higher than for girls.

I'm not sure where you are going with this. Are you saying that black boys are intentionally given this before 36 months as some kind of plan?

If I can't trust the police... if I can't trust the authorities... then I cannot trust their laws, their procedures, their arrest reports or their statistics.

But it is so much deeper than this. Drugs, gangs, dysfunctional families, alcohol, zero drive to do anything in life, education level almost nonexistent, society sponsored violence, and so on. Hard to blame authorities on all this. You kind of got a chicken or the egg situation here as in who came first. I'm not sure who did or if it matters, I do know that cops mirror the society they work in, and if not, bad cops just want to go to bad cities to work so they can get away with their evilness, something I really do not believe.

Also remember since Chicago has a high black population 33%, the IL government is made up of a large percentage of blacks too, that is just common statistics. It also been under far left leadership that one would think wants to take care of the people...hmmm. So I'm not sure how the whole evil authorities against the black man places into this, but we both can agree it all sucks. Chicago reminds me of Greece where everyone wants to get that government job and just vegs out for 35 years to draw a pension.

Yes, there is a problem. A HUGE problem. And no one wants those problems addressed and resolved more than the mothers who worry for their sons every single day.

I agree 100%, it seems only the mothers care. That is why I have an issue with BLM, it is not focused in the right area. Some guy who been going to college for 8 years (professional student) who's dad makes 8.5 million per year goes on a 8 day hunger strike and gets all the news. Last weekend 8 dead 45 shot in Chicago and maybe page 3 in the news. I say screw college students, and anyone who has figured out how to be successful in life since they do not need the help. The 9 year old kill in gang violence is the real BLMs. The teen high on drugs shoot by a cop 16 times is so wrong 50 different ways and is the real BLMs, The young black kids in a dysfunctional homes with zero chance to have a good life is the real BLM. The 53 people shot last weekend is the real BLM...I can go on with 100s more, but I'm sure you get the point.

All of those typical deficiencies like "drugs, gangs, dysfunctional families, alcohol, zero drive to do anything in life, education level almost nonexistent, society sponsored violence" that are fallaciously laid at the general foot of "Black culture" can also be said of Whites as well as Hispanics (an ethnic demographic, not really a race) sometimes in equal or greater numbers (since we're using "statistics").

Whites More Likely to Abuse Drugs than Blacks - TIME Magazine

More than 1-in-5 White Children Lives in a Single Parent Home

Alcohol-Related Intimate Partner Violence Among White, Black, and Hispanic Couples in the United States

Etc. Etc.

Many of these characteristics are more attributable to economic status than to race alone.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
All of those typical deficiencies like "drugs, gangs, dysfunctional families, alcohol, zero drive to do anything in life, education level almost nonexistent, society sponsored violence" that are fallaciously laid at the general foot of "Black culture" can also be said of Whites as well as Hispanics (an ethnic demographic, not really a race) sometimes in equal or greater numbers (since we're using "statistics").

Whites More Likely to Abuse Drugs than Blacks - TIME Magazine

More than 1-in-5 White Children Lives in a Single Parent Home

Alcohol-Related Intimate Partner Violence Among White, Black, and Hispanic Couples in the United States

Etc. Etc.

Many of these characteristics are more attributable to economic status than to race alone.

I checked those and didn't see much concerning whether the people from lower economic status, and from different 'races,' live in proximity to each other.

In large cities I could see this being the case, however a large percentage of poor white folks live in rural areas which could definitely contribute to the perception of black demographics, who largely concentrate in cities, that they are singled out. I am not saying that they aren't, but it could definitely play a role when they are always encountering the better off city-folk.

I live in the southwest and the town I live in is practically segregated around the downtown 'hub.' The mexican (latino? idk) folks generally concentrate in the southwest section next to extremely expensive (for our area) downtown apartments while the poor white folks spread out towards the east. So when there are discussions about the matter both groups seem fairly ignorant of the actual living conditions of the other group. There are probably like 5k black folks in my entire state (obviously more) and a lot of them are immigrants and refugees (I used to do a lot of business with them) who don't generally get involved in these sorts of politics.

The way pundits are trying to make this a national "discussion" really seems to fail at bridging the geography and demographic differences of the country.

-FBB

a reply to: FriedBabelBroccoli

The sources provided merely speak in general to the normal listed set of "deficiencies" of the Black Community.

My assertion at the end of my post that these characteristics are related more to economic status than race (or at least equally so) is a considerable topic on it's own.

Your point about poor White folks is very valid in my opinion. They're rural and more dispersed, thus creating different scenarios than the pool Black folks concentrated in urban areas face.

There are issues that get applied to race that have much different causes ... and would show up under different demographic statistics. Great post! Given me more to think about.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
All of those typical deficiencies like "drugs, gangs, dysfunctional families, alcohol, zero drive to do anything in life, education level almost nonexistent, society sponsored violence" that are fallaciously laid at the general foot of "Black culture" can also be said of Whites as well as Hispanics (an ethnic demographic, not really a race) sometimes in equal or greater numbers (since we're using "statistics").

Of course maybe greater numbers, but not percentages. I fail to see all the white hoods, white gangs in the 1000s etc. One would think with 70% of the population, whitey would dwarf 13% of the population, but they don't. I do agree it is all across the spectrum, but my point was BLM is not focused in the right area since there is a lot wrong within the black community that needs to be addressed.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Are you saying that black boys are intentionally given this before 36 months as some kind of plan?

No, that's not what I'm saying. And my apologies for not being more specific. I am saying that many "experts" claim a link between vaccines given before the age of 36 months with autism, with a higher incidence among boys than girls, and a higher incidence among Black boys than White boys. I do not believe a vaccine was created and mandated and administered for the sole purpose of creating an autistic population... although at this point, it wouldn't surprise me. I will also say that although the link is known, it is profits before people that keeps the link from being further researched, and the vaccinations postponed until after 36 months.

My other example, lead-paint poisoning, likewise impairs mental development and judgment, and is a huge problem in those neighborhoods that Black people were forced into after the civil war, and enforced by redlining. Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson/St Louis, New York, Cincinnati... all of the innner cities most affected by gangs and violence are well known for their redlining policies and lead-poisoning problems.

Why is this important? Because the premise is that we are all born into and raised on a level playing field, and everyone has the mental capacity and judgment to make appropriate decisions. I used to believe the same. But not now. These are just two examples of how we -- to be more specific, government -- has hurt the Black population with both short-term and long-term consequences...

"We" created this monster. "We" perpetuate this monster. "We" can fix the problems at their root, or we can let the monster continue to feed on our hate.

Drugs, gangs, dysfunctional families, alcohol, zero drive to do anything in life, education level almost nonexistent, society sponsored violence, and so on. Hard to blame authorities on all this. You kind of got a chicken or the egg situation here as in who came first.

As I stated above, actually, it's quite easy to blame the authorities who created this monster. It is indeed a chicken or the egg situation... but who has been in control since the first slave was brought to these shores??? It sure wasn't the Black folks.

I'm not sure who did or if it matters, I do know that cops mirror the society they work in, and if not, bad cops just want to go to bad cities to work so they can get away with their evilness, something I really do not believe.

It absolutely matters. One cannot fix the problem if one refuses to blame the root of the problem. And I will say again, the rot starts at the top. Bad cops cannot work where the top demands the best. They get fired... or never hired to begin with. So, yes, they work where they can: where the brass at the top excuses, enables and even encourages their bad behavior. How could it be otherwise?

Also remember since Chicago has a high black population 33%, the IL government is made up of a large percentage of blacks too, that is just common statistics.

All the more reason for all of us to stop playing into this divide-and-conquer racist crap. When all is said and done, it's about corruption and greed putting profits and power before people, which knows no racial divide. Black folks can be just as corrupt as White folk.

It also been under far left leadership that one would think wants to take care of the people...hmmm. So I'm not sure how the whole evil authorities against the black man places into this, but we both can agree it all sucks.

Chicago reminds me of Greece where everyone wants to get that government job and just vegs out for 35 years to draw a pension.

Yes, we can agree -- it ALL sucks!!! I understand how and why it works... when folks see government laws, rules and regulations holding them back, they conclude that they solution is for government laws, rules and regulations to give them what they need. Flawed logic obviously, but I see the reasoning. People do what they know... for better and worse. But on the plus side, when they know better they do better. So there is always hope.

...it seems only the mothers care. That is why I have an issue with BLM, it is not focused in the right area.

Yes!!! That's why I have such a hard time arguing this issue. I see the legitimate issues and problems that need to be addressed... I see that many/most of these issues apply to poor Whites and Hispanics and others as well... I see the good people who are just trying to stand up for what's right... and then I see the blatant political agenda being pushed exploiting good people and real problems as pawns for their self-serving purposes and it makes me want to scream.

Some guy who been going to college for 8 years (professional student) who's dad makes 8.5 million per year goes on a 8 day hunger strike and gets all the news. Last weekend 8 dead 45 shot in Chicago and maybe page 3 in the news. I say screw college students, and anyone who has figured out how to be successful in life since they do not need the help.

It is maddening, I agree. But then I ask myself who the hell is making it play out this way??? Why does the media seem to speak with one voice in only certain situations? And often providing exactly the same mis- and dis-information? But then play deaf, dumb and blind in similar situations? Likewise for our politicians? There is a coordinated agenda at work...

The 9 year old kill in gang violence is the real BLMs. The teen high on drugs shoot by a cop 16 times is so wrong 50 different ways and is the real BLMs, The young black kids in a dysfunctional homes with zero chance to have a good life is the real BLM. The 53 people shot last weekend is the real BLM...I can go on with 100s more, but I'm sure you get the point.

Yes, I get the point, and do agree. But I keep going back to the top... the ones framing the message... the ones defining the argument... the ones calling the shots.

I mentioned redlining above, the process by which Blacks were forced into certain neighborhoods and denied mortgages by law. This was genuine institutionalized government racism. This was wrong. It was finally addressed and changed under Carter with the Community Reinvestment Act... after (staged?) demonstrations at various banks and lending institutions. And it needed to be changed. But instead of fixing it, they used the "reform" to ultimately create a mortgage system that screwed ALL OF US. And we're still paying the price. And absolutely no effort has been made to fix the real problems in the system.

Government is the problem. Not the solution. But our only hope for getting government the hell out of the way is for us -- all of us -- to stand together and work together... fighting amongst ourselves only perpetuates the problem.

originally posted by: Boadicea
My other example, lead-paint poisoning, likewise impairs mental development and judgment, and is a huge problem in those neighborhoods that Black people were forced into after the civil war, and enforced by redlining. Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson/St Louis, New York, Cincinnati... all of the inner cities most affected by gangs and violence are well known for their redlining policies and lead-poisoning problems.

But we are 2015, when I was a kid in the 60s lead paint was everywhere and doctors said smoking was good for you. Though you might have a point I do not buy it as a big reason why today's black youths seem so aggressive. I would blame it more on young culture in the inner cities, gangs taking over as parents, and just no direction but a few bad paths.

All the more reason for all of us to stop playing into this divide-and-conquer racist crap. When all is said and done, it's about corruption and greed putting profits and power before people, which knows no racial divide. Black folks can be just as corrupt as White folk.

Also the poor pray on the poor. It seems kind of weird that those with little tend to pray on others with very little, but it is there.

Yes, I get the point, and do agree. But I keep going back to the top... the ones framing the message... the ones defining the argument... the ones calling the shots.

I guess I just have a different thought process. I really do not care who is president etc. I work towards to goals I need to take care of my family and so I do fine no matter who is in office. I'm not saying I'm smarter than anyone else, just more focused on what is important to me. This drives me to select where I live, what kind of work I do and also puts a lot of focus on my family. Because of this I personally put a lot of blame on the individual too since they can overcome their challenges, something we all have.

But instead of fixing it, they used the "reform" to ultimately create a mortgage system that screwed ALL OF US. And we're still paying the price. And absolutely no effort has been made to fix the real problems in the system.

You are right screwed us all...But once again what about the young blacks today that seem to be even worst off than those 30 or 40 years ago that had all these other issues to face.

a reply to: Xtrozero

And percentages are really meaningful only if the populations are homogeneous ... and they're not. (i.e. not all White or Black people commit crimes, so a per capita measure, particularly when there is such a disparity (6 to 7 times) in the total populations, results in skewed comparisons.)

I see you went with "gang membership" as your exception, and yes, that is a reasonable statistic to compare ... generally overall street gang membership 45% Latino, 35% Black and 11% or so White. Sure, that's one-sided (but since Hispanics are the greatest concentration, and Hispanics have not been "targeted" by "leftist policies to control" as many claim Blacks have, don't have the same issues etc., that stat is weakened in relevance in this regard in my opinion.)

However, let's consider, again that this vector you want to look at "gang membership" has historically been a feature of dense populations in urban areas. For example, in one study, 41.6% of gangs operated in larger cities (higher population density), while only 5.5% operated in rural counties (lower population density). Other studies show an even greater disparity between city and countryside.

Source

I would still argue that, along with economic status, the population density in some areas (highly concentrated low-rent housing, public housing, etc.) is as large or larger a factor in the consideration of gang membership as race.

(And then of course, we could talk about the much higher White membership in gangs in prison, another high-density population type).

I keep seeing these that BLM is "not focused in the right area" ... and that makes no sense to me. There are many groups in the Black Community who are focused on these issues (family, crime, education) that so often get pointed out ... but that was not and is not the focus of BLM ... which was started and has evolved, specifically in certain areas of concern.

Why do folks feel they have the right to tell BLM members what to focus on??? It seems like a cop out.

And the Black Community IS focused on Black-on-Black crime with some success ... the homicide rate for example has dropped between 1991 and 2008 by almost half. (Source)

And Black people ARE concerned and ARE aware of the problems facing them ... from the same source ...

... according to a 2013 survey for NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, and the Harvard School of Public Health, 26 percent of black Americans rank crime as the most important issue facing the area they live. That’s higher than the ranking for the economy (16 percent), housing (4 percent), the environment (7 percent), social issues (4 percent), and infrastructure (7 percent). And in a recently published survey for Ebony magazine and the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, 13 percent rank violent crime as a top issue—which sits in the middle of the rankings—and 48 percent say that the black community is losing ground on the issue.

So, I am profoundly unconvinced by the droning complaints that BLM should be focused elsewhere and, by extension, that the Black community AT LARGE is doing nothing at all to help their people.

Here's a thought: why don't we support BLM when they are in the right, call individuals out for true racism (not just stuff we don't want to hear) when that happens, and most importantly, actually take a look (since the argument is that racial groups should be policing themselves) at White racism rather than continually spinning on our heads trying to deny that it even EXISTS.

What's good for the goose ...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I see you went with "gang membership" as your exception, and yes, that is a reasonable statistic to compare ... generally 45% Latino, 35% Black and 11% or so White. Sure, that's one-sided (but since Hispanics are the greatest concentration, and Hispanics have not be "targeted" as many claim Blacks have, don't have the same issues etc., that stat is weakened in relevance.)

Gangs is a big issue, maybe part of it is the Latinos have a different structure for gangs since they tend to keep their strong family values and are still part of a gang where blacks tend to replace they family, or lack of, with that of the gang. It is hard to figure out why 53 black people were shot in Chicago last weekend with 8 dead and we do not see the same or worst with Latinos. I'm also sure much of the influences in Latino gangs comes from the south border too so they might be more into making money though crime than wanting to rain bullets at each other.

I would still argue that, along with economic status, the population density in some areas (highly concentrated low-rent housing, public housing, etc.) is as large or larger a factor in the consideration of gang membership as race.

These hell hole places to live is a big issue, but once again being poor does not create violence. Lots of poor people, many more poor whites than blacks just by the numbers, so why is there so much violence in these heavy black areas?

(And then of course, we could talk about the much higher White membership in gangs in prison, another high-density population type).

Well of course there is for survival, I think everyone is in a gang, but how many whites go to prison that were already in a gang on the outside? Got some motorcycle clubs and maybe a few small Nazi type groups, but not 1000s.

Why do folks feel they have the right to tell BLM members what to focus on??? It seems like a cop out.

Not sure what you mean by "having the right to tell" they can do what they want, and I can agree or disagree with their choices, very simple. I really do not care what they do, but I can also elect to not support them.

So, I am profoundly unconvinced with the complaints that BLM should be focused elsewhere and, by extension, the Black community AT LARGE is doing nothing.

Its just my personal views. I do not see any changes from within. When 6 black young adults jump out of a van and beat to death some guy just standing by a convenience store then jump back in their van and take off I have to think that each one of them comes from a family and where is that family and how did they get to that point to want to beat a stranger to death for fun. Personally I think this is a good example of what I see BLM should be working on. When 16 people are shot in a park I think that matters as it was black on black, so that is another rather BLM moment that was just not addressed.


But what do I know the BLM can do what they want and blacks can keep dying by their own weekly in large numbers.

a reply to: Xtrozero

So ... the explanation for gang violence is different for different peoples ... it's just that Black gangs are all the results of drugs, weakened families, poor education, lack of goal-orientation???

That's hard to see that as anything but a racially-based argument. How many Latinos were killed last weekend? In Chicago, in LA, in Atlanta ... and how many Whites in any of those places or others ... and if you don't know that number off the top of your head, ask yourself why.

I'd love to see your proof that there isn't a correlation between poverty and crime, because there obviously IS.

Nope, the percentage of the prison population that is in a gang is about 10%. My argument is that gang membership, or at least one factor of it, is a function of population density.

Yes, yes, you have freedom of speech and can say whatever you like within legal limits we all face. You know that's not what I'm saying. Why do you feel like you have a right to tell the people (who have the same rights to assemble and speak as you do) what they should choose to focus on? How do you have a right to make that decision for them? They aren't children.

RIght ... and the key words are "what YOU think BLM should be working on" ... that's not what they were founded to do, that's not the focus of the people who have joined, others are focusing on and working with Black-on-Black crime, poverty levels, educational levels, strengthening families etc.

Your last comment seems rather bitter ... and not at the level of commentary I would expect from you.

Why don't YOU get involved with community groups working on Black-on-Black crime if it concerns you, rather than pointing out what you think others should be doing?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

But we are 2015, when I was a kid in the 60s lead paint was everywhere and doctors said smoking was good for you. Though you might have a point I do not buy it as a big reason why today's black youths seem so aggressive. I would blame it more on young culture in the inner cities, gangs taking over as parents, and just no direction but a few bad paths.

I blame it on a combination of those factors and others, and the results are predictable... exactly what we have now. Garbage in, garbage out. We have one political party promising them the world, but we both know they just want to exploit the people's misery for their own personal gain. Then we have the other party blaming them and offering no help whatsoever. So the problem grows, with no real solutions. Obviously, we cannot condone nor ignore violent behavior on anyone's part, and if that's the path one chooses, then they have to suffer the consequences. But we need to do more to address root problems. I want the wanton violence to stop. All of it.

I guess I just have a different thought process. I really do not care who is president etc. I work towards to goals I need to take care of my family and so I do fine no matter who is in office. I'm not saying I'm smarter than anyone else, just more focused on what is important to me. This drives me to select where I live, what kind of work I do and also puts a lot of focus on my family. Because of this I personally put a lot of blame on the individual too since they can overcome their challenges, something we all have.

And I'm guessing you haven't had to deal with many of the debilitating problems so many inner city kids have, and have had many benefits they did not have... one way or another, you had the ability and opportunity to learn a better way. Those of us who know better have to find a way for everyone to know better. For everyone's sake, everyone has to look at what they are responsible for, what they can change, and how they can do better. When some person or group says, "Hey, we know we need to do better about this, this and this, and we're going to work on that... but you need to do better with this, this and this, and we want to work with you on that," then I'll be singing it from the rooftops.

You are right screwed us all...But once again what about the young blacks today that seem to be even worst off than those 30 or 40 years ago that had all these other issues to face.

A good question, and once again, it's a combination of factors. But part of it is emotional/psychological; demonizing those who are too successful -- too "white" -- unless it's as a drug dealer or gangsta rapper, or calling anyone who isn't politically correct enough an Uncle Tom or worse, or glorifying Planned Parenthood and/or welfare all while belittling/minimizing fathers and fatherhood, and as I mentioned earlier, convincing people that only the government can help them (which isn't hard when everyone else is just throwing them under the bus).... what so many people call a "culture," I think is more like a cult in that the "beliefs" are artificially induced and the "rituals" staged for the mastermind's personal gain. Seriously... they can't actually fix the problems, right? They'll just be doing themselves out of a job! (And poor folks don't make campaign contributions.)

a reply to: Xtrozero
a reply to: Gryphon66

And percentages are really meaningful only if the populations are homogeneous ... and they're not. (i.e. not all White or Black people commit crimes, so a per capita measure, particularly when there is such a disparity (6 to 7 times) in the total populations, results in skewed comparisons.)

This is way over my head... can you explain what you mean by this? Think "Statistics for Dummies"...

But regarding these statistics, do either of you know if these numbers represent the number of crimes commited by race OR the number of people who commit crimes by race?

So, for example, if one person commits ten crimes, is that reflected as one person by race... or ten crimes by race?

I sure hope that makes sense...

originally posted by: Gryphon66

So ... the explanation for gang violence is different for different peoples ... it's just that Black gangs are all the results of drugs, weakened families, poor education, lack of goal-orientation???

Who knows, I'm saying that they are two different cultures, so don't go there. So you explain to me then...

That's hard to see that as anything but a racially-based argument. How many Latinos were killed last weekend? In Chicago, in LA, in Atlanta ... and how many Whites in any of those places or others ... and if you don't know that number off the top of your head, ask yourself why.

The numbers are easy to get but this is about BLM. I'm sure I would feel the same if there was a Latino LLM and they did not focus within to stop the inter violence.

. Why do you feel like you have a right to tell the people (who have the same rights to assemble and speak as you do) what they should choose to focus on? How do you have a right to make that decision for them? They aren't children.

Stop with the "I feel I have the right to tell" lol I thought this was explained, why do you fell I need to agree with them?

RIght ... and the key words are "what YOU think BLM should be working on" ... that's not what they were founded to do, that's not the focus of the people who have joined, others are focusing on and working with Black-on-Black crime, poverty levels, educational levels, strengthening families etc.

It is called black lives mater and I just feel the large loss of life from black on black violence is not addressed and I see that as a bigger issue.

Why don't YOU get involved with community groups working on Black-on-Black crime if it concerns you, rather than pointing out what you think others should be doing?

Just my point of view take it or leave it. It is not my fight either way, and it really doesn't concern me. I put forth my point of view of where I see as big issues within the black community that are not addressed by the BLM.

I guess we are done, I hope they are successful with their BLM movement... I just hope the 8 years of college student whose dad makes 8.5 mil per year has pasted his 15 minutes of fame.

a reply to: Boadicea

Makes perfect sense to me, the "best way to lie is to use statistics":

An argument goes that that Blacks commit say 40% of total violent crimes committed and Whites commit 55%.

(I'm making these numbers up for example only.)

As portions of the total US population, Whites make up about 70% and Blacks about 13%.

Then, the observation is made that per capita (in other words, in comparison with the total population) Blacks the 40% of the crimes committed by Blacks is far greater than that of Whites COMPARED WITH POPULATION.

So ... 0.40/0.13 = 3.07 (Black crime rate over Black population) as compared with 0.55/0.70 (White crime rate over White Population) = 0.785.

So, here the Black Crime Rate per Capita compared with White CR / Cap is 4 times larger.

... and this is then used to claim that Blacks are 4 times more likely to commit crimes as Whites.

EXCEPT (my argument)

Using the total populations (especially since there is such a wide disparity there are 5-7 times as many Whites as Blacks) is particularly meaningless BECAUSE ... neither all members of the Black Population or all members of the White population commit crimes, in fact, most of both do not.

Those who argue for the first interpretation are claiming that proportionality is important in terms of population which is errant for the reasons I just outlined.