Religion, the MSM, why are we 'still' sucking it up??? Are we really this dumb as a race?

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Thanks man, I never really thought about taking solice or credit for how I feel. I'm just gutted and still in the dark, as to why the majority of our race don't see it, or make a point of the elephant in the room too.
I'm not sure what would happen if eveyone woke up to the BS and made a stand. In fact that's a bit too big and scary to think about. Imagine that much normality and truth around us! *shivers* I don't think my brain is capable of looking/seeing that far forward. :-/

originally posted by: OpenEars123

I don't belive in 'religion' and I don't believe in an omnipresent deity. If your God is who you say he is, and listens to yours and fellow Christian friends 'prayers'. Can you ask him to stop killing millions of innocent children every year please? And to stop giving innocent children cancer, HIV, malaria, and the thousands of other diseases please? and to instead, give these diseases and ill fortunes to rapists, murderers and paedophiles please? That would be great, and when it happens (as there's plenty of you to pray for it!) I will 100% convert, and apologise profusely for doubting in the first place.
Thanks, let me know how you get on with that.

I hope you note the sense of irony in the fact that you say you don't believe in God, then go into what can only be described as a fairly bitter rant on the manner in which He conducts business.

The problem here isn't a lack of justice, which you seem to bemoan, but the timing of it.
Justice will indeed come to rapists, murderers and pedophiles, but not when you wish it. God isn't at your mercy that he should do as you wish. The Bible is consistent on this point - that God allows "the wheat to grow with the tares" so to speak, until such time as His final judgment begins.

I do note that you also ignored my challenge. It's easy to be critical of something - far more difficult to actually engage with it and then hold a reasoned conversation on the topic.

a reply to: mOjOm

But to answer your question, sure, I'd go with choice one, if it was really an option. I don't see that as a real option however.

Thank you for allowing me to extracate the only answer
anybody with a brain would have for that question.

I ask you only to notice how the member to whom the
question was posed completely avoided it.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
No offense, you're right......

I'm a Christian....I don't have a religion.......cool huh....just a moment to moment relationship,,,,,really helps a wild one like me....!.just talk yo Yahushua and He will yalk to you!!!!

correctamundo....we should stop sucking up the sharade

You realize that simply by speaking about it, you have now shoved it on the OP?

Geesh! /sarc

Usually calls to not shove religion down anyone's throat are really calls to simply go in a closet somewhere and die.

wait, what? :-|

Usually calls to not shove religion down anyone's throat, are really calls to go in a closet somewhere and die?

Do you mean the religious people should die in a closet? Or the people who oppose shoving religion on other people should die in a closet? And why does anyone have to die in a closet? Are you in the closet? Why are you talking about closets???

originally posted by: randyvs
Thank you for allowing me to extracate the only answer
anybody with a brain would have for the that question.

I ask you only to notice how the member to whom the
question was posed completely avoided it.

But what is the point in asking a question like that?? It's like me asking you which would you rather have?? Every second of every day having someone stab you in the crotch or the ability to fly at will??? Well, gee, I don't know, that's a tough one.

The fact remains that there is no all knowing oracle for us to go to so unless you show where there is your question is pointless.

originally posted by: OpenEars123
a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Thanks man, I never really thought about taking solice or credit for how I feel. I'm just gutted and still in the dark, as to why the majority of our race don't see it, or make a point of the elephant in the room too.
I'm not sure what would happen if eveyone woke up to the BS and made a stand. In fact that's a bit too big and scary to think about. Imagine that much normality and truth around us! *shivers* I don't think my brain is capable of looking/seeing that far forward. :-/

I think you pretty much answered your own question...

There is a reason why we are all not meant to see the truth. The masses would revolt and pure chaos would occur.

TPTB will, have and will continue to do anything and everything they can to make sure a majority of the population are in the dark.

In my opinion, they are the true and only minority after all...

originally posted by: Awen24

originally posted by: OpenEars123

I don't belive in 'religion' and I don't believe in an omnipresent deity. If your God is who you say he is, and listens to yours and fellow Christian friends 'prayers'. Can you ask him to stop killing millions of innocent children every year please? And to stop giving innocent children cancer, HIV, malaria, and the thousands of other diseases please? and to instead, give these diseases and ill fortunes to rapists, murderers and paedophiles please? That would be great, and when it happens (as there's plenty of you to pray for it!) I will 100% convert, and apologise profusely for doubting in the first place.
Thanks, let me know how you get on with that.

I hope you note the sense of irony in the fact that you say you don't believe in God, then go into what can only be described as a fairly bitter rant on the manner in which He conducts business.

The problem here isn't a lack of justice, which you seem to bemoan, but the timing of it.
Justice will indeed come to rapists, murderers and pedophiles, but not when you wish it. God isn't at your mercy that he should do as you wish. The Bible is consistent on this point - that God allows "the wheat to grow with the tares" so to speak, until such time as His final judgment begins.

I do note that you also ignored my challenge. It's easy to be critical of something - far more difficult to actually engage with it and then hold a reasoned conversation on the topic.

Notice how you said that I said I don't believe in God? when I actually said I don't believe in an omnipresent deity? 2 completely different things.

Those who do believe in God (as an omnipresent deity) pray to this/these gods asking for things daily.
My point was, if you believe your God is listening to you (which you all do) why not pray for important things (like children not dying and suffering daily) instead of the usual stuff you pray for?

Sorry, but the 'in good time' crap is a cop out. If God listens to you, he should listen to all the little innocent children praying and BEGGING not to die EVERY SINGLE DAY. Not listen to you, and your followers asking for bread to be on the table every day for you and your family.

My point: If there is a god, HE IS NOT LISTENING TO YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS PLANET.

originally posted by: Awen24
a reply to: OpenEars123



Not offended, no...



I'd suggest to you that there is indeed a great deal of proof that demonstrates the existence of God. Christianity is unique in this aspect, in that "the Word became flesh, and walked among us". We're not pointing to histories written down hundreds of years after the fact, or relying on mythologies or hearsay. The King of Kings walked the streets of Jerusalem, sailed the sea of Galilee and died on a very real Roman cross.



The Bible says that "what may be known about God has been made manifest... for since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that men are without excuse."



All of heaven and earth are my evidence: design is everywhere you look, filled with irreducible complexity, complex mathematics and biological brilliance.



...and if all creation isn't enough, God Himself has given His Word to men - a book beyond comparison. 66 books, over 40 authors, written over 1500 years, and yet the same 'voice' speaks out of every word, every phrase, every passage. You think you're too philosophically sophisticated for religion? Read the book of Job, and tell me there isn't more wisdom there than you've ever dreamed of in your own mind. Think you're too smart? Read the book of Romans and marvel at the logical, legal mind of the apostle Paul. Think you're a visionary? Read Revelation and understand why the apostle John fell at the feet of Jesus Christ, portrayed in all His righteous glory as a holy, radiant judge.



You want to prove God doesn't exists? Humour me. Read through the book of John, and the book of Revelation - and come out the other side unchanged.

done it, didnt do a thing for me except compel me to reevaluate my appreciation of m night shyamalan movies and stephenie meyers novels. absolute gems in comparison to the several hundred pages i forced myself through, and thats just the writing style alone. the scientific and historical accuracy and philosophical rationale are all in desperate need of editorial services. and you arent going to change my mind on that score anymore than im likely to change yours. as to proof of the existence of your deity, i suggest in return that all of your evidence was borrowed from the results of scientific experiments using scientific tools in scientific techniques by trained scientists with years of experience in scientific principle and applied to unrelated questions sheerly, or largely, for the purpose of "validation by association". in other words, not a single bible, quran, or baghavad gita was involved. but that doesnt stop all of these cults from borrowing the credibility that science has fought persecution and superstition for centuries to earn for itself, in order to support an unrelated and untested hypothesis. there is no "theory of creation" except in institutes paid for the privelege of handing out exactly that information, because you have to pay to be lied to if you want to learn about how science supports the hypothesis of creationism. dont even try to tell us that "science supports it" because your god only fits in the gaps of scientific understanding, where we can only speculate until professionals give us a definitive answer or a clear, well founded basis for reaching that answer. your god is the god of exceptions and qualifiers, so much so that even the rule which demands his existence has an escape hatch if he needs it. a deity designed to meet the standards of a hypocritcal species without fail, able to bend with the winds of social convention and not snap. but no, i cant disprove him and i dont want to. the inability to prove a negative is every creationists ace in the hole, or so they think. being unable to say no doesnt imply consent, and being unable to disprove a hypothesis doesnt imply validation either. it could be as simple as a rigged hypothesis, or a "false dichotomy". another trick commonly observed on these forums. but just for the record, it deeply disappoints me when creationists borrow the credibility of science to make their own shoddy attempts at critical thinking look better. its intellectually dishonest and unworthy of the scientific arts.

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric

originally posted by: OpenEars123
a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Thanks man, I never really thought about taking solice or credit for how I feel. I'm just gutted and still in the dark, as to why the majority of our race don't see it, or make a point of the elephant in the room too.
I'm not sure what would happen if eveyone woke up to the BS and made a stand. In fact that's a bit too big and scary to think about. Imagine that much normality and truth around us! *shivers* I don't think my brain is capable of looking/seeing that far forward. :-/

I think you pretty much answered your own question...

There is a reason why we are all not meant to see the truth. The masses would revolt and pure chaos would occur.

TPTB will, have and will continue to do anything and everything they can to make sure a majority of the population are in the dark.

In my opinion, they are the true and only minority after all...

I agree. But why would there be chaos and revolt everywhere? That's what I want to know.
All I've got is, we're not evolved/advanced/intelligent enough to handle it. But why do 'you' think we need to be kept in the dark? Lied to? Why do you think there would be chaos following truth?

Basically I think my evolution theory is flimsy, and believe there are better answers out there. I'm just trying to dig them out.

a reply to: mOjOm

The fact remains that there is no all knowing oracle for us to go to so unless you show where there is your question is pointless.

Prove to me God does not exist? You can't.
And according to the record that doesn't have to
exaggerate your lack of knowledge to the topic.
That record states we once had a relationship with
the ultimate intel in the universe or possibly outside
the universe. Seems kind of fitting to me that we, us, mankind
wouldn't have made it to first primordial pool with out a
Creator. And that Creator God made us to have a relationship
with him. But you know, paradise lost! There goes that.
Further more I see no reason that lets you! Label anything
a fantasy.

a reply to: OpenEars123

Thinks weren't this bad back when we only had one television channel and a single open party line.....just sayin'.

Now there are more versions of the truth than there are people.

With that many believing whatever the hell they want, no wonder it's such a mess out there.

Word may travel faster these days, but don't mean it's true.

What would you prefer to believe or be offended by today?
There's an app for that!

*facepalm*

Oh, the humanity!

originally posted by: randyvs
Prove to me God does not exist? You can't.
And according to the record that doesn't have to
exaggerate your lack of knowledge to the topic.
That record states we once had a relationship with
the ultimate intel in the universe or possibly outside
the universe. Seems kind of fitting to me that we, us, mankind
wouldn't have made it to first primordial pool with out a
Creator. And that Creator God made us to have a relationship
with him. But you know, paradise lost! There goes that.
Further more I see no reason that lets you! Labeling anything
a fantasy.

I can't prove flying monkey's don't exist either but does that mean they are real too??? You can't prove a negative. Just because you can't prove something doesn't exist doesn't mean it does exist.

You can't prove you God exists any more than anyone else can prove theirs. Face it, you're not that different than me in that you Disbelieve all other Gods. You just believe in one for whatever reason. I on the other hand have no reason to believe in that one any more than the others.

Insisting that Your God exists and wanting me to believe it is no different than me believing that Zeus exists and wanting you to believe that.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: OpenEars123

Thinks weren't this bad back when we only had one television channel and a single open party line.....just sayin'.

Now there are more versions of the truth than there are people.

With that many believing whatever the hell they want, no wonder it's such a mess out there.

Word may travel faster these days, but don't mean it's true.

What would you prefer to believe or be offended by today?
There's an app for that!

*facepalm*

Oh, the humanity!

Good post and question, albeit the sarcasm

You're right about more exposure now for everyone, and yes it makes it all more messy. But the msm has always been the same, exaggerated truth with a whole lot of agenda based lies thrown in too.

I'm not sure what I would prefer instead, it's a pretty big realm of possibilities in it's place. I guess I'd like some options to consider, and also have a better understanding as to why we need to read/see this BS every day.
I'm all ears really, just wanted to hear from some forward thinkers.

a reply to: randyvs

well, ego does tend to lend significance to events or circumstances that are convenient to it. "i like this, it must be meant for me"

a reply to: mOjOm

I can't prove flying monkey's don't exist either but does that mean they are real too???

Sounds like you took the wizard of oz a little to serious as a child.
Seems odd you wouldn't take the more serious matter with
such accord?

NOBODY ASKED YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING ABOUT FLYING MONKEYS.

Why make such a weak observation?

And I know I can't prove God exists but i've not
heard anything convincing that would exclude him from
any explanation of existence that makes a lick G-D sense.
Except redundant dumbass claims pertaining to his absence.
Absence is only convenient for claims of none existence and
i don't think your experience in relation to life span of your
capacity for knowledge is anything I would take into account
what so ever concerning the topic. You can't say God doesn't
exist without making yourself obligated to a better account
for existence. Period.

Insisting that Your God exists and wanting me to believe it is no different than me believing that Zeus exists and wanting you to believe that.

And what in hells bathroom are you talk'n abpout here?

I like our last engagement better!

a reply to: OpenEars123

It's not just the MSM...people have been lying and gossiping since the dawn of humanity.

How does that old saying go?

"THE SECOND THE THIRD CAVEMAN WAS HATCHED A CONSPIRACY WAS FORMED AGAINST ONE OF THEM."

a reply to: randyvs

Sounds like you like your God, yes?

HE KILLS KIDS DAILY

Why do you like him?

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: OpenEars123

It's not just the MSM...people have been lying and gossiping since the dawn of humanity.

How does that old saying go?

"THE SECOND THE THIRD CAVEMAN WAS HATCHED A CONSPIRACY WAS FORMED AGAINST ONE OF THEM."

Yes good point. And you've highlighted the fact we are still behaving like cavemen when it comes to MSM. Which kinda reinforces my 'not evolved enough' to know better theory.

So now I'm wondering what's going to happen when we eventually stand up and reject MSM. Scary thought!

a reply to: OpenEars123

Do you have any evidence to what you most likely regurgitated?

No! Well now that is startling young man.

Why wouldn't I like him? I'm not demented and unless I wanted
revenge for be'n born? Not hate'n life so yippers I love him.
I also have no desire to be in with the cool crowd because
when I'm around that crowd is around me.

originally posted by: randyvs

NOBODY ASKED YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING ABOUT FLYING MONKEYS.

No, you asked me to prove God doesn't exist which is just as meaningless.

And I know I can't prove God exists...

That's right, you can't. So until you can there is nothing for me to disprove. You can't show it, so you don't know it. Yet you insist he's out there somewhere and want others to believe it too.

I like our last engagement better!

I don't know why, they all seem to be the same to me.