A trip into a Banlieue of France

done editing

originally posted by: Bluesma
Then they disappear, for a month or more. They come back a new person.

They've just come back from Camp MK-Ultra!

Beautifully written, Bluesma, and gets the point across very well.

What is the answer to this dilemma? I don't know, but the first thing I would advise Jemaa to do is to communicate with her children openly and honestly. Tell them her story, how and why she came to be in France, how she wasn't allowed in school, how she sneaked into classes to learn French. Tell them her feelings on following her religion, how she does not judge others for following their own beliefs. Tell them how important it is to get along with the citizens of the country they now call home. Most important, warn them about the false image of power with the drugs, crime, money - as well as the false image of power with the violent extremist views.

I understand what you say about the children not respecting their parents, but they listen to them more than you think, if the parents will just communicate. I talk to my teen daughter constantly about drugs, sex, life goals, etc. until I know she is sick to death of hearing it! She appears to have the same attitude towards me that most teens have - "you're dumb and don't know what you're talking about". But I also know that all my jabbering has had a positive effect on her. I have eavesdropped on her conversations with friends where she tells them she isn't interested in being "dumbed down" by drugs and alcohol, and she won't have sex until she is ready and not one minute before, and if a boy puts too much pressure on her, she'll dump him. Oh, and she says that smoking is just plain stupid. That's my girl! She thinks they are her own opinions - and they are - with a lot of my influence.

I don't know what the Muslim culture is like when it comes to communicating with the children about life, but to me, open and honest (and constant) communication is essential. What are Jemaa's goals for her children? What would she like to see them accomplish in their own lives? Communicate that! A lot! It works!

I realize that you are bringing up Jemaa's specific situation as an example of a larger problem within the Muslim community in France. But I think my point applies no matter the situation - Chicago ghetto, Appalachian back woods, or "no go" zones in France. Wherever children have to make difficult decisions on which way to go in life. Children always look to their parents first for guidance. If they don't feel they are getting it, they WILL look elsewhere.

Can you give me one example of a wedding in France where they did shoot "automatic weapons" and "ak-47" in the air ? Pics, videos ?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Well written post.

But I think my point applies no matter the situation - Chicago ghetto, Appalachian back woods, or "no go" zones in France. Wherever children have to make difficult decisions on which way to go in life. Children always look to their parents first for guidance.

I live in those "Appalachian back woods"....fairly deep in them, actually.
The problem (here at least, and I'm sure it applies elsewhere, especially somewhere like Chicago or any big city really...as I have also seen first hand when I lived in Chi town) is that a LOT of these parents set horrible examples for their children. Lots of drug use (opiates and other pharmaceuticals, mostly) among parents....children looking up to that. Children seeing the easy money they can make...then realizing where it takes them. Sadly, often too late.

What is the answer to this dilemma?

I think you answered your own question, actually.
Education is the key. It is a sort of "back bone" when the dilemmas and problems arrive and if the education is "proper" then better decisions are made.
....it's all about the education, really.

a reply to: gosseyn

Pretty sure it'd take about 5 seconds to go find that yourself.
What are you implying? Your comment is actually lost on me. Can you elaborate?

a reply to: Bluesma
Thank you for posting this Bluesma. It is refreshing to get a REAL persons perspective and not the propaganda we typically get.
I referenced this thread in another as an answer to the OP.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Thanks again!
S&F

a reply to: Bluesma

The situation in France is not simple, and cannot be addressed with flippant answers.

Le Monde Diplomatique and silly me would disagree.

Serious crime, after all, prefers a quiet world, and religious leaders tried to mediate - at least until France’s Muslim umbrella organisation, the Union des Organisations Islamiques de France (UOIF), issued its bizarre fatwa against the violence (3). Anyway, a few villains or a handful of Muslim “brothers” can hardly be held responsible for the ghettoisation of more than 700 zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, government-designated problem areas) and their 5 million inhabitants. As Laurent Bonelli points out (see page 2), it makes more sense to attribute the recent violence to a process of urban apartheid - a stark contradiction of the French integrationist model - and to the discrimination and racism that afflict young Arabs and blacks. The smokescreen generated by the controversy over Islamic headscarves has blown away, revealing a brutal reality.

Point of intersection

The drama in Clichy-sous-Bois would have had less serious repercussions if so-called problem areas had not found themselves at the point of intersection of three major crises: social, post-colonial and concerning political representation. These demand comprehensive solutions and the abandonment of the neoliberal logic applied by the right - as previously by much of the left.

This certainly explains why, when the vast majority of the political elite rallied to the government’s call for “order and justice”, it had far more to say about the former than the latter. But as calm returns, is anyone prepared to address the crucial question of long-term solutions? If the banlieues are to have any future, there must be reflection, debate and action.

mondediplo.com...

Sometimes seeing the reality becomes impossible because we can’t let go of the urge to judge good and evil. Sometimes what we are calling evil came about because of a lot of different people trying to do good, and just not able to see the far reaching effects of actions and choices.

You can't just sit there and state it's 'their' fault, whoever they are. This is old news, nothing changed. The riots 2005 were a clear warning-sign and yet, some still try to ignore the apartheit in France.

So Jemaa fears for her kids, and what they will become. Will they be pulled into crime? Terrorism? Or be a victim of them, like the french people around?

Sure, all the French (white) people around are victims. And I'm the Prince of Persia, wanna join my Harem?

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: gosseyn

Pretty sure it'd take about 5 seconds to go find that yourself.
What are you implying? Your comment is actually lost on me. Can you elaborate?

Elaborate on what ? It has been said on this thread that "muslims in france celebrate weddings by shooting automatic weapons and ak-47". I ask for proof. Are you upset because I ask for proof ? That says a lot.

a reply to: gosseyn

Are you upset because I ask for proof ? That says a lot.

What exactly does that say? LOL

You asked for "proof" that is easily acquirable, via a simple damned youtube search. You cannot search youtube?
This is a very common tradition...

So, what is it that you are implying? Because anyone here could spend five seconds searching it themselves and find a ton of examples, both "positive" (like no one got killed in the process) and "negative" (dumb people with guns accidentally shooting bystanders)....it's not like it's some rare occurrence for such to happen [celebratory gunfire]...

...or do you just need someone to hold your hand and guide you to that precious "evidence"?

a reply to: Bluesma

That step child just abused the parents biological daughter.

Now watch what happens.

a reply to: stormcell

Fantastic responce

a reply to: Jakal26

YouTube?

www.youtube.com...

Liveleak?

www.liveleak.com...

Nothing, whatever. Nice story.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

What?
You lost me...

Why is your comment directed to me?

a reply to: Jakal26

You cannot search youtube?

I thought you may have a point but nothing showed up.
It's not your OP either, forget about that.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

10-4

But, actually, a lot shows up with a simple youtube search.
The tradition itself, maybe not inside France, but obviously those with said tradition are going to bring said tradition with them.

Still not sure what they posters point was...almost like he was implying that the OP was lying or that it's not a common thing [celebratory gunfire]...

Anyways....

So, there is no proof of any wedding in France where Muslims shoot "automatic weapons and ak-47" in the air ? No proof of a single instance nor of a widespread custom, in France ?

a reply to: Bluesma

Thank you for sharing your insight and experience with us in this matter.
I think the true human element is what we so often lack in our perceptions. It's over easy to generalize things and ignore the base element of humanity at the core of it all.

When any population is cowed, it becomes too easy for the powerful to take advantage in any situation. Be it by violence and fear, or distraction and propaganda. People generally just want to live a good life of their choosing. When there is a powerful destructive element preventing that from happening sometimes it is just easier to buckle down and focus inward. Unfotunately that's when power takes advantage.

The most important question everywhere then essentially is, " How do we peacefully counter such hatred, violence and aggression without becoming what we fight against? ". How do we do that without losing our own way? Self protection is obviously not the answer here either. Not for the families you speak of, nor for polite society to lay down and accept being overrun. Just as it's not helping the innocents in the refugee population.

The world at large seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, so to speak. On one hand there is a press of humanity mass migrating right now into populations that seem incompatible. That mass migration is unquestionably driven by war. War over religion, power and control. On the other hand we have the western world shaken by the influx and the violence of the incoming population. At the same time the western world is struggling with our own leaders and policies. People are trying to live the best they can in the constructs provided to them by society.

There is reference lately to "first world problems". People everywhere struggle with pain and death. Homelessness and rape and murder happen everywhere on different scales, it's wrong no matter who you are or where you live. People struggle to raise families and feed them, clothe them and keep them warm in all parts of the world. It's the divisiveness that enables those with real conviction to prevail. If good people could stop arguing over petty nitpicking differences and recognize the need to stand against evil then this fight would be easier. Instead people have been manipulated and jaded into infighting over things that really shouldn't matter since they don't affect others basic freedoms.

If we could all even attempt to simply live by the tenent of do no harm then things would just be too easy I guess.