ISIS defector explains a key reason why people continue to join the group

a reply to: alienjuggalo

no, at least they are brought to court

4 men convicted for iraqi massacre

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I love how you can justify any behavior with your moral relativism. If I was given that choice I would be the one with the bullet in his head. My life isn't worth losing my integrity.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I love how you can justify any behavior with your moral relativism. If I was given that choice I would be the one with the bullet in his head. My life isn't worth losing my integrity.

ty

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
Did you witness it happening, or are you assuming it in a desperate defensive mode?

Witness what? Someone choosing to starve or join ISIS? Are you trying to deny that such things would happen?

I agree but making one up doesn't work either...

I didn't make anything up. I just talked about how situations in Syria may drive them to be in ISIS. It's not like I specifically called forth an anecdote about a Syrian family that choose ISIS over starving or anything...

There are people in this world who would sacrifice their own lives for the ones they love, these people are heroes

Fantastic. There are other people in the world who wouldn't. The world is full of all types of people, and you REALLY can't say you know how you'd react when the chips are down unless that is actually the case.

There are also people who would kill innocents and spread misery for a few easy buck, claiming they are feeding their families, those are scumbags that deserve no sympathizers from the civilized world...

There are also tons of people in between your two extremes doing things for all sorts of gray reasons.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Have you ever actually been starving or seen your kids starve to know how you'd react under those circumstance?

Oh for the love of God!!!!

Are you actually defending ISIS now? I believe you are. Have you developed "Political Correctness Psychosis"?

Those poor babies. They are out slaughtering thousands of people in the ME, and now in Western Europe because their kids are hungry. Too bad about the kids who are dying who will never know what it's like to even BE hungry, because they didn't live long enough. Too bad the ones that are permitted to live will do so without parents.

Don't ask me stupid questions, please. As I said earlier. I know myself. I know what I capable of and not capable of.
Mass murder is something I'm not capable of.

If my kids were hungry I'd probably put on my ninja suit and break into people's houses and grab a package of rice, or a jar of peanut butter if I could find one. I'm certainly not above that. Mass murder is out of the question.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I love how you can justify any behavior with your moral relativism. If I was given that choice I would be the one with the bullet in his head. My life isn't worth losing my integrity.

I'm not justifying anything. At the end of the day we all have to account for our sins. God or no. I'm just saying that I can see how the situation in Syria can drive people to do the unthinkable.

A fairly decent OP with some good information that puts this issue in a better perspective, and it's met with pages of ignorance.

It's sad that we cannot even discuss a topic without people's brainwashing forcing them to turn it in around to be about progressives, Obama and socialism.

What a joke.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Krazysh0t

there are how many thousands pouring out of syria, i'm sure many of those have had the same choice.
explain why those chose not to join and kill innocents instead of leaving, or the ones who stayed and are not doing the same.

Because different people all have different situations... Why should I have to account for the decisions of every person in Syria? Some people are weaker minded than others. It is what it is. Many get duped into being evil. Some don't have a choice. Ever situation is different. Ever join the military and ask your squad mates the varying reasons THEY joined? Because I have. I didn't talk to a single person who joined and told me they joined so they could rape and pillage foreign lands though.

it's not like there's no help elsewhere, even though it's hard to get there.

Just because YOU can see the help available doesn't mean it is visible to the people on the ground.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm not justifying anything

No you aren't. But you sure as hell are trying to.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I love how you can justify any behavior with your moral relativism. If I was given that choice I would be the one with the bullet in his head. My life isn't worth losing my integrity.

It's funny that you'd rather have your life taken to save your integrity, yet many of your posts damage your integrity and you continue to post.

Relativism indeed.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm not justifying anything

No you aren't. But you sure as hell are trying to.

No. I'm. NOT! If I tell you that I'm not justifying it don't call me a liar and say I'm wrong. I'm explaining how a terrible situation can lead someone to do the unthinkable. Such actions may be hard for you to conceptualize, but that is just because you lack perspective. Though NONE of that forgives their decision to join ISIS.

I'd appreciate it you'd stop constructing my argument for me and let me do it.

dbl post

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I love how you can justify any behavior with your moral relativism. If I was given that choice I would be the one with the bullet in his head. My life isn't worth losing my integrity.

It's funny that you'd rather have your life taken to save your integrity, yet many of your posts damage your integrity and you continue to post.

Relativism indeed.

its funny how you equate a few posts on ats to joining iSIS and murdering children.. Just wow..

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You've constructed your argument just fine.

Anyway, since ISIS is doing this to feed their starving kids, maybe we can end this war by sending them food.

Tell the world leaders you believe you are on to something.........

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Ok stop the sarcasm. The fact that you are demonizing me here and not trying to actually consider my words shows a very biased out look here.

Let me spell a few things out for you:
I don't like ISIS
I don't sympathize with ANYONE who joined or wants to join ISIS for ANY reasons
I think ISIS is an awful, awful organization
-I- would like to say that I wouldn't join such an organization if I was starving on the street in Syria, but it's hard for me to say because I'VE never been starving on the street in a war zone wondering if I'd make it to the next day or not.

With all that being said, I can still see how the situation in Syria could lead them to ISIS. It's a bad situation and every decision is the wrong one. That's how things are. Trying to analyze it from the safety of your home is naive and shortsighted. Like I said, get some perspective!

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: eisegesis


The article makes it sound like they are "regular people". Well any level-headed person would know that AFFILIATING with these groups that have just massacred all these people, ISN'T WORTH the financial incentives.

They are representing extremists who have no value for them or their family, other than to use them as pawns.

You sound like someone who either has never had kids, had to watch them starve or who doesn't know themselves very well.

When I was younger I had to make a choice, either my son ate or I did. Guess who ate? I weighed 87 lbs. How many "level-headed" people can sit there and watch their children starve or be shot? I don't think that most of these people have any illusions about the motives of ISIS toward them and their family. They just want to survive.

you are starting to sound like a sympathizer.. There are alot of other ways to get food tan join ISIS.

You're starting to sound like an assumptive-knee-jerking pawn. I'm not a sympathizer to ISIS. I am however, sympathetic to the plight of those people and more to the point, I understand behavior. Because I understand behavior I don't think that we should let the Syrian refugees in. I sympathize with their situation and I understand the choices many are making but I also know that the refugee population is... strange. Mostly young males and that is worth being nervous about. Also, it is a no-brainer that ISIS has their own loyal (not just in it out of desperation) agents imbedded in that refugee population.

For the rest of you on your moral high horses--I knew you would say it, and most of you are wrong; you absolutely would not stand there and watch your children die so that you can "stick to your morals, or ideals", or whatever you think you would put in front of the suffering and lives of your family. If you were in that situation, when it comes down to brass tacks your ideals will look petty and insignificant when you realize that you are making your children suffer and die for them. These vain-glorious, ridiculous soap boxes would crumble to splinters under your self-righteous feet, as they should.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I love ya to death, but there are all sorts of people who kill for money.

Soldiers of Fortune.
Mercenaries.
Private Military Contractors.

Neither here nor there though, really. Killing is wrong for just about every reason. Desperation is real.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I love how you can justify any behavior with your moral relativism. If I was given that choice I would be the one with the bullet in his head. My life isn't worth losing my integrity.

It's funny that you'd rather have your life taken to save your integrity, yet many of your posts damage your integrity and you continue to post.

Relativism indeed.

its funny how you equate a few posts on ats to joining iSIS and murdering children.. Just wow..

I did no such thing. What I did was point out that many things are relative to the situation we are put in and while many of you are dismissing what Krazy is saying, it all boils down to an individual's relative situation.

It's not a hard concept to grasp.

By the way, what you posted was a logical fallacy; an appeal to emotion. You will have to do better than using such sophomoric drivel.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So are we supposed to "feel bad for them"? Is there any reason we should be defending these peoples' choices of joining up? Not that I'm aware of. They are people just like we are.

I don't have to make those tough decisions so I don't know - but acting like "this was their only choice" is stupid - we have no idea what other options they could've had. Limited options, yes I'm sure. Would they be raking in as much cash doing labor/other work? No.

In some cases, maybe it WAS the only option. Even still - personally I don't think I would be a triggerman for these lunatics, even if I WERE on my last leg. That's kind of an empty statement since I don't have to make that decision but it is how I feel.

But the fact of the matter is that ISIS and groups like this are not only killing innocent people, but also causing the Western World to demonize all Muslims as a result. I don't feel bad and I don't condone these peoples' decisions to join up.

I understand journalists are trying to "find out more" about these issues but I don't think it's helpful when it starts a dialogue where we start making excuses for why ISIS has a growing following and what tough circumstances might have led people to follow.



ETA: I also don't have kids or a spouse, so if I had to be the head of the household to provide for my own - in this instance I can say there is a higher likelihood that if met with no other options, I would join

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: eisegesis

Sounds like they are taking a page from the cartels and what made them so successful.

And the Mongolians and the Romans and on and on... This is stick and carrot behavioral modification at its core. It is how you herd humans (or any animal) in the direction that you want them to go, both figuratively and literally. If you do the "wrong" thing (oppose the caliphate) we will make you suffer, if you do the "right" thing (join the caliphate) we will take care of you and you will prosper.

If I were faced with the choice of watching my children starve or survival well...

Allah Akbar or whatever they want me to say, whoever they want me to shoot, whatever.

Most of you will judge my lack of moral fortitude but at least I'm honest with myself. Most of you would also do the same whether you'll admit it or not.

Sadly, you're correct.