I loathe POLITICS And RELIGION!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

As long as religion teaches that mankind was created to be ruled by, and taken care of by gods, then mankind will look for gods to take care of them and tell them what to do. Since there are no gods around, people will vie to rule, either acting as gods or by their devotion to gods, acting on behalf of their gods' authority.

Religion distracts the people from finding representatives to protect our best interests, instead, the system has the masses seeking saviors. All I hear from politicians is how they're going to save us from the fear that they created, just like the priests preach that religion will save us from the fear they themselves promote.

The fact that most of the worst tyrants in history were not religious, would probably negate your reasoning.

Rational Wiki article on Dictators

My two cents....

1) Pepsi? Seriously? Pepsi had their chance. Maybe I'm old but does anyone remember the "New Coke" fiasco? THAT was Pepsi's chance to overthrow the king. They could have said, "See? We... PEPSI... are not only the choice of a new generation but also true to our roots." Don't blame Coke for.... remember this.... Pepsi Clear. Yikes.

2) I suspect that a lot of what people hate about organized religion is only a symptom of the human condition. If I understand a lot of what I read on this site and others... people can't stand religion, in part, because "Those darn religious folks are always trying to force their will and beliefs onto me." I can't say that they are wrong for disliking that. However, I see the same behavior in non-religious ways. Take vaccinations, for one example. Ever since my wife gave birth a few years ago I regularly get people "that know better than me" telling me I just HAVE TO get him vaccinated or I SHOULD NEVER get him vaccinated. Same thing goes for people telling me what kind of car I just HAVE TO drive or what type of place I just HAVE TO live in or what type of work I just HAVE TO do. Bottom line, some religious folk do make it easy to place the blame on faith.... but at the end of the day it's just people being jerks. Get rid of every memory of the Torah, Bible, Quran and every other religious text... and people will still be self-righteous, egotistical, "I know better than you do" jerks.

3) While it is true we call mayors, senators, presidents, etc Politicians.... Politics is NOT limited to those in capital buildings. It reminds me of something I posted to a thread earlier this evening. Too often the United States declares war on "things." (War on Terror, War on Drugs, War on Obesity, War on Bullying, etc). The OP says he hates politics but what is politics other than a human behavior? It's essentially taking a set of information + a goal + finding a way to get the majority of others to go along with your goal.

(Oversimplified) Example: A group of people are charged with constructing a building. There is a set of plans and specifications (the raw data).... Everyone wants it to be built affordably, quickly and with no injuries (the same goal).... the best way to get that accomplished? Several people will have several ideas as to what is the best way to do it. The politics? Person A thinks using a hoist to bring up material as the building goes up is the best way to do it. Person B thinks keeping a crane on site is the best way to do it. What happens next? Person A talks to the rest of the group, trying to convince them THEIR way is the best... as does Person C. Maybe some side deals are made or some friendly "dinners" take place to convince some people to come over to THEIR side.
This is a ridiculously simplified example... but....

I think the OP is complaining about parts of human behavior but it's not Religion or Politics that are the problem. It is, basically, people. And despite the horrible things we do, in some ways we aren't THAT bad and we (hopefully will continue to get better).

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

As long as religion teaches that mankind was created to be ruled by, and taken care of by gods, then mankind will look for gods to take care of them and tell them what to do. Since there are no gods around, people will vie to rule, either acting as gods or by their devotion to gods, acting on behalf of their gods' authority.

Religion distracts the people from finding representatives to protect our best interests, instead, the system has the masses seeking saviors. All I hear from politicians is how they're going to save us from the fear that they created, just like the priests preach that religion will save us from the fear they themselves promote.

The fact that most of the worst tyrants in history were not religious, would probably negate your reasoning.

Rational Wiki article on Dictators

You've completely missed my point, once again. They're two sides of the same coin. It's the currency that's bottomed out. There are no saviors, political or ethereal, coming to save the day or save us from ourselves.

As long as we as a society think that divinity can be elected, or reflected in the elected, we'll keep electing lying snake oil salesmen promising miracles, while taking us for all we've got.

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Sounds like you are blaming religion and politics where your true resentment lies in the people who dont agree with you.
Anybody with a different opinion than yours is your enemy.

I hate people like you, those who hate my beliefs or my political affiliations.

I dont really

Lol,

Did you actually read what I wrote?

I really hope you are kidding. lol

LOL

Did you read your opening post

Loathe synonyms: hate, detest, abhor, despise, abominate, dislike greatly, execrate;

Those are all verbs, you cant hate some one else who runs, you have to hate the runner, the person doing what the verb is

Use your brain, you cant hate politics, you hate other peoples politics. You cant hate religion, you hate others who have a religion you hate

If you cant work that out

Its called deny ignorance not deny intelligence. LOL, LOL

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

As long as religion teaches that mankind was created to be ruled by, and taken care of by gods, then mankind will look for gods to take care of them and tell them what to do. Since there are no gods around, people will vie to rule, either acting as gods or by their devotion to gods, acting on behalf of their gods' authority.

Religion distracts the people from finding representatives to protect our best interests, instead, the system has the masses seeking saviors. All I hear from politicians is how they're going to save us from the fear that they created, just like the priests preach that religion will save us from the fear they themselves promote.

The fact that most of the worst tyrants in history were not religious, would probably negate your reasoning.

Rational Wiki article on Dictators

You've completely missed my point, once again. They're two sides of the same coin. It's the currency that's bottomed out. There are no saviors, political or ethereal, coming to save the day or save us from ourselves.

As long as we as a society think that divinity can be elected, or reflected in the elected, we'll keep electing lying snake oil salesmen promising miracles, while taking us for all we've got.

Do you believe that "we as a society think that divinity can be elected, or reflected in the elected"?

I don't, nor do I know of anyone in society who actually believes that.

They (the elected) are all just human beings, being human.

a reply to: chr0naut

Do you believe that "we as a society think that divinity can be elected, or reflected in the elected"?

Do you think that most of societies problems revolve around religious and political-economic issues?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you believe that "we as a society think that divinity can be elected, or reflected in the elected"?

Do you think that most of societies problems revolve around religious and political-economic issues?

No, our most pressing problems are health and mortality issues. Then economic, then crime and corruption, then educational, then attitudinal or ethical (which might involve religion and political affiliation), then technological & scientific. I think that is the order, in my view.

a reply to: chr0naut

As long as people are taught to believe that some god is going to fix our problems and care for our needs, we'll be looking to priests and politicians to fill the ticket.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13

Until we realize that there are no gods, in the heavens or among us, to save us from ourselves, politicians and priests will continue to take advantage of the people, convincing them that their leadership is wrapped in divine authority and that they are deserving of our trust and obedience.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: chr0naut

As long as people are taught to believe that some god is going to fix our problems and care for our needs, we'll be looking to priests and politicians to fill the ticket.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13

Until we realize that there are no gods, in the heavens or among us, to save us from ourselves, politicians and priests will continue to take advantage of the people, convincing them that their leadership is wrapped in divine authority and that they are deserving of our trust and obedience.

The governments of the countries I live in use the Westminster system which has a 'separation of powers' as a core tenet. Church, State and Courts are separate entities. A politician is not allowed to also be an officer or representative of the church or an officer of the court.

The Westminster system has been in place in New Zealand and Australia for about 200 years and has been adopted by the majority of nations of the British Commonwealth.

Westminster system - Wikipedia

I could also add that I am a Christian and it is for that reason that I do NOT believe that any human government is capable of "fixing all our problems or fulfilling all our needs".

I can add to my assurance, the fact that no government EVER has historically been able to govern fairly and completely to everyone's satisfaction.

a reply to: chr0naut

You can't see outside your chosen prison cell. You're part of the system/problem. Believing that you must choose a master to serve, you've made your choice. You've chosen to serve religion. You justify your servitude because you believe that your religious gods, ultimately, rule earthly leaders. You don't believe that we have any other choice.

Meanwhile, others look to leaders and politicians to save them, protect them and care for them. They believe that they can elect a side to serve, that will in turn, serve them.

Two sides, same coin. The currency is corrupt.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: chr0naut

You can't see outside your chosen prison cell. You're part of the system/problem. Believing that you must choose a master to serve, you've made your choice. You've chosen to serve religion. You justify your servitude because you believe that your religious gods, ultimately, rule earthly leaders. You don't believe that we have any other choice.

Meanwhile, others look to leaders and politicians to save them, protect them and care for them. They believe that they can elect a side to serve, that will in turn, serve them.

Two sides, same coin. The currency is corrupt.

I'm not in prison.

Nor am I controlled.

I have been forgiven and so I can forgive. I now choose to live a life with a gentler ethic.

... and it is freeing!

a reply to: chr0naut

So, you don't serve a master/lord?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: chr0naut

So, you don't serve a master/lord?

Yes.

a reply to: chr0naut

As I thought. You've chosen a side of a coin.

I repeat, as long as mankind promotes the idea that it needs a savior to forgive them, take care of them and tell them how to live, we'll have people looking to politicians who drive trucks through the gaps that religions leaves wide open.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: chr0naut

As I thought. You've chosen a side of a coin.

I repeat, as long as mankind promotes the idea that it needs a savior to forgive them, take care of them and tell them how to live, we'll have people looking to politicians who drive trucks through the gaps that religions leaves wide open.

At least I have not chosen to be penniless!

a reply to: chr0naut

I'm kind of kidding but, you two should just go ahead a get a room already....

The tension between the two of you is beyond palpable.

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric
a reply to: chr0naut

I'm kind of kidding but, you two should just go ahead a get a room already....

The tension between the two of you is beyond palpable.

Cheerz! All in phun.