Immigration Reverse! More Mexicans Are Leaving U.S. Than Coming In

originally posted by: Annee
Many Mexicans are in agriculture.

They can't get field workers anymore. Crops are rotting in the fields.

One farmer I know who had produce fields in both the US and Mexico. A couple years ago he moved his whole operation to Mexico.

It's easy to say: "Send everyone back to their own country" --- with no real thought of what it will mean.

Our manufacturing is gone. Soon our agriculture will be gone.

this is right and wrong. Most people against illegal immigration would not care about mexican or other latin american immigrants (especially migrant workers) if there was a system in place to verify identity vet for criminal records in the country of origin and here and an expiration date after which they need to leave and re-enter. Said migrant workers could then get international licenses which suffice for identity purposes but not for voting but would allow them to drive and get insurance. Legal guest workers could do most things legal citizens do including renting or buying property send their kids to school or college, get medical and dental care interact with law enforcement without fear and so forth. AND the damned corporates and agri types could not abuse or underpay them.

We would be more secure, get revenue, have our crop pickers, landscapers, construction workers and so forth, the migrant workers get what they want and be protected from abuse from exploitive employers, local criminals and politicians.

this and better border security and a review of the immigration and naturalization process for streamlining if prudent and to see if the current throughput numbers could be adjusted sanely (bearing the citizens standard of living economy and cultural status quo in mind) would actually solve america's immigration politics and remove the issue as a scoundrel's wedge issue once and for all.

it is something that is actually doable so long as the word comprehensive is not appended to the process. "comprehensive" is politician speak for i am about to screw everyone over again for my own political/ideological benefit. there is no reason not to handle this trio of reforms separately because the end result will still cover all three main issues with immigration in the end.

as an alternative to international driver's licenses an additional code could be created for existing state's driver's licenses such that the holder can use it to legally operate a car, use it as a form of official ID, and just about everything else but vote.

this ID along with a migrant worker ID card would allow a migrant worker to show themselves as a lawful long term guest (longer than a typical tourist visa or business trip stay) of the united states with all attendant rights and privileges( excluding what should only be a right of full citizens.)

the idea should be to allow lawful aliens to stay and keep unlawful ones out and provide a way to trace migrants who commit crimes here so that they can be expelled and barred re-entry when required.

That is one third of the problem with illegal migrants largely solved right there.

a reply to: Abysha

LOL! "Keeping Mexicans hostage since 2016."

Love it.

(Satire follows) In the 2020 campaign the Republicans will be offering incentives to Mexicans to move to the US, including jumping the immigration queue, and training Special Forces press gangs to kidnap Mexican farm laborers and bring them north.

a reply to: ParasuvO

www.law.cornell.edu...

I believe "employers of illegal immigrants" are breaking the law. No one enforces that law. Ah, the love corp cult.

A parasite is an interesting creature, if it continues to feed until the host begins to die, it is kind of self-defeating. Then it has to seek out a new host.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko

That's impossible. Also, why aren't you demanding that we secure our northern boarder than since your rhetoric is expanding beyond trying to keep current waves of people out and all? After all, it's really easy for a sneaky Canadian to just cross the boarder and start stealin yer jerbs!

Clearly that boarder needs securing too. It's completely open!

Rolling on the floor and laughing does not do justice to what I just heard, thanks for the laughs krazy!

I have actually never heard of a Canadian wanting to even travel to America in a long while, much less to go for work.

What makes you think it would be easy to sneak across this border, anyways ??

Thank you! I can't believe it when the Canadian border is compared to the Mexican border. Worst argument ever. Millions of illegal Mexicans are flooding here, because Mexico is a terrible, poor place, and before they started flooding in so quickly, America was at least doing perceivably better. Everyone knows Canada is doing great, and Canadians do not, and will not ever want to come here. Canada isn't a threat, as far as mooching, illegal aliens are concerned.

The same people who use the "Canadian borders" argument also has a nasty habit of calling illegal immigrants "immigrants".

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: xuenchen

So in other words, it's not true because YOU don't want to believe it is true? You're gonna have to try better than that hun.

No, because illegals, by another definition are "undocumented" . That is one of the biggest points of contention when it comes to illegal immigration in the first place! That they are essentially invisible to the government. That is the point he is trying to make, we don't know how many Illegals are really here, so how can we make an estimate of an unknown? That is an equation that is impossible to solve.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
A parasite is an interesting creature, if it continues to feed until the host begins to die, it is kind of self-defeating. Then it has to seek out a new host.

i don't blame illegal immigrants for wanting to come here. i do blame them for not following the law to do it. and i think that there is a way to greatly increase the incentive for following the law. a work visa (with tracking vetting and expulsion systems in place) directly targeted at unskilled and skilled labor other than engineers, doctors etc...

An end to abuse and exploitation by employers and criminals by giving them the ability to go to police without fear (if they are lawful) and limited ability to organize to advocate for better wages and benefits.

full enrollment in all applicable U.S. tax systems.

periodic required exit or reenrolling in the visa system.

naturalization citizenship remains a separate system though a person's long term good standing in the guest visa system should be considered when vouching for an applicant and should shorten the process if warranted.

originally posted by: somnum
The most bizarre thing to me is the fact that conservatives are generally the most proud to be American, but are the first to toss out American values like welcoming immigrants. The hypocrisy is astounding. My grandmothers father immigrated illegally here from Germany, and then in the next breath had the audacity to complain about immigrating Mexicans!

You're comparing 2 very different sets of circumstances. When your great grandfather came to America, there were more jobs than people to be had, and America's social safety net was nowhere near as extensive and governmentally costly as they are today. Today is the opposite, there are more people than jobs and illegal immigrants who have children here immediately put them on social welfare which causes a massive drain on our system. Yes I know illegals themselves can't claim benefits, but they can claim benefits on their anchor children's behalves due to it being illegal for government agencies to question the citizenship status of said parents.


That's why their is such pushback and resistance and resentment, and why your comparative argument attempt is a folly and completely baseless.


All of this being said, while so don't support illegal immigration, I am all for the US investing in our fellow Americans (the continent). If these assholes who ship jobs overseas ABSOLUTELY have to ship the manufacturing out of America, the least they could do is keep them a bit closer to home, to countries who's value system is akin to ours and who's capable interests aren't such at odds with American interests.

This is the biggest load of lies I have seen in quite awhile, nothing could be further from the truth. Somebody fabricated some imaginary numbers because of all the current hype about the Syrian refugees. Basically the lying liberal loons want to deflect from any discussion about the open borders being a serious threat to National Security because they know that debate is coming next. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: somnum

OK, let's play that game...
Where is the logic in accepting more people into a country in which 35% of the working age population has dropped completely out of the workforce due to frustration over finding employment? Where is the logic in accepting more people into a country in which half of the population is already on some form of government subsidy or assistance? Where is the logic in accepting even more low skilled, low income workers into a country which has a massive trade deficit with the rest of the world because our manufacturing sector has packed up and move elsewhere? Where is the logic in accepting more people into a country which already is struggling with failing schools that are stressed beyond their maximum point in terms of budgets? Where is the logic in accepting more immigrants into a country already fractured when we know from past and present experience that there will be little assimilation, yet further demands of accommodation by the entering immigrants... at what point does the "great melting pot" crack and spill us all out onto the fire because of these evergrowing internal pressures and arguments? Where is the logic in introducing even more searching for affordable housing into a country in which most communities are woefully short already and ultimately just put even more fiscal pressures on the middle class who can barely afford the present demands on them and the markets?

There is NO logic in allowing further immigration to America. The only solution which is pragmatic and fair is to say "NO MORE" to all and close the borders, no exceptions.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. 35% of the working age population not working? That's considered good, why don't you educate yourself en.wikipedia.org... it's considered bad when it drops below 50%
our unemployment rate is low en.wikipedia.org...
our population density is not high, especially considering all of our land is essentially easily habitable, compared to countries with lower population densities, like Canada.
There's little evidence that Mexican immigration has cost jobs. And if it has lowered wages, the the argument should be made for easier access to legal work so that they are not underpaid.

Face it, you're the child of immigrants, the difference here is they speak a different language, and are a different color.

You gave woefully small data, and a bunch of hyperbolic ("dey took ur jerbs" and "our country is fracturing because of them!"

The thing that makes me smile is that irrespective of what you want and what you think, it's not going to happen.

a reply to: ketsuko

if you dont care about the ammount of immigrants and all you want is a secure border why arent you advocating for a wall on the canadian border

how about walls all along our territorial waters?

youre intentions and feelings here are very transparent

a reply to: Krazysh0t

We all know those statistics are just a bunch of lies put out there by the liberal propaganda machine.

Hell, I saw a Mexican right here where I live in Texas just the other day, so the whole thing must be a hoax.

On a more serious note, about a week ago I made a similar statement to my ultra conservative older brother and he was instantly ready to physically fight over the issue. After all, he's been to the border and actually saw some Mexicans, so he knows those stats. are just a lie.

I don't even know what to say to them anymore. They've chosen to live in a bubble where facts are totally ignored and bigoted opinion rules the day.

to my best knowledge there are not hordes of canadians jonsing to cross illegally to take advantage of the american dream. most canadians who do cross cross at border crossings. those that don't are normally either lost or are doing so for harmless mischief. there are a few criminals with bad intent and a few radical muslim operatives that come in that way.

But it is a matter of volume and danger. the Southern border is the focus of most illegal border crossings for criminal purposes. It's a fact. nice try on that well worn race card you tried to throw though.

anyway to secure the northern border is far more difficult that securing the southern border. the same natural boundaries that make passing the northern boundary more dangerous and arduous that the southern crossing make it nearly impossible to either fence or patrol. and portions of the northern boundary are rivers or lakes that freeze solid enough to walk or drive over at will.

as a matter of fact recently there has been increased illegal traffic over the northern boundary that way and a lot of them speak middle eastern languages. but that is very recent and has just started being reported on. the first time i saw it in the media was a few months back and it was about the previous winter. folks including forestry or park officials and border patrol individuals brought it to reporters attention and they went and filmed it happening.

There are middle easterners crossing the north border and it is likely at least some of them have bad intent.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

The southern border has always been heavily controlled. Do you think people are just now figuring out the northern border is open? If you have the means to get into Canada it's much easier to smuggle people in through the North than the South, it has been that way for 50 years. In fact, if you want to go back further than that just look at rum running in Detroit.

Also, I want to point out that once you're in the US there's no restrictions on moving from state to state, it's even more open than the EU. Because the US has so much land and so few neighbors our country is pretty much borderless and it always has been. Borders only matter as far as determining legal jurisdiction, we don't really have the means to confine people within a border, or to lock them out of a border.

To put this another way. What if we fully secured the northern and southern borders? Someone docking a boat in Florida could then drive anywhere in the country completely circumventing our wall. While I have no problem with a secure border for peace of mind, it's going to be expensive, and we have to recognize going into it that it's going to be ineffective.

Wow...the South Park episode has finally come true...
m.imdb.com...

a reply to: stormbringer1701

Not bad. Please ammend that to include "and during the first 10 years following being awarded citizenship, any monies earned in the United States must be spent in the United States. Forwarding monies to other countries will invalidate citizenship and the individual will be deported immediately."

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Not bad. Please ammend that to include "and during the first 10 years following being awarded citizenship, any monies earned in the United States must be spent in the United States. Forwarding monies to other countries will invalidate citizenship and the individual will be deported immediately."

Lol!
'The new American Dream...cuz # your family back home'

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Not bad. Please ammend that to include "and during the first 10 years following being awarded citizenship, any monies earned in the United States must be spent in the United States. Forwarding monies to other countries will invalidate citizenship and the individual will be deported immediately."

really though; while it is true that migrant workers do funnel us dollars to their relatives back in their home countries, the fact that they are here and physically have to live here means they spend the bulk of their money here where it is at least taxed municipally and by the state. the real money drain on the economy is by corporations moving south. and if mexico wasn't so damned corrupt eventually the economies would reach equilibrium which would remove the motivation for corporations to move south as an alternative to U.S. taxes, labor and material costs.

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Not bad. Please ammend that to include "and during the first 10 years following being awarded citizenship, any monies earned in the United States must be spent in the United States. Forwarding monies to other countries will invalidate citizenship and the individual will be deported immediately."

Lol!
'The new American Dream...cuz # your family back home'

Or:
The new American Dream...where we only accept you if you're as selfish as we are