Dutch Parliament Member: We Must Close All Mosques & Ban Islam

a reply to: angeldoll

If people want to act like the bible doesn't say the same things that people condemn Islam and the Koran for then yes it will be pointed out.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: angeldoll

If people want to act like the bible doesn't say the same things that people condemn Islam and the Koran for then yes it will be pointed out.

You do realize almost all of that is directed at Israel and only applies to other Israelis right?

Whereas the Koran is directed at non Muslims.

Here is a verse you mentioned ...

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Since the US is not Israel it does not apply. The OT laws do not apply to Christians as explained in the Bible. It only applies to Jewish Christians.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: nunka

And there are all kinds of violent passages in the Old Testament:

Yes, which are for Israel, and only apply to the Jews. Very different than violent passages that talk about Muslims being violent to non Muslims.

No non Muslim friends.

Sura 3
118 O believers, take not for your intimates outside yourselves such men spare nothing to ruin you; they yearn for you to suffer Hatred has already shown itself of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is yet greater. Now We have made clear to you the signs, if you understand.
119 Ha, there you are; you love them, and they love you not; you believe in the Book, all of it, and when they meet you they say, 'We believe, ' but when they go privi
120 If you are visited by good fortune, it vexes them; but if you are smitten by evil, they rejoice at it. Yet if you are patient and godfearing, their guile will hurt you nothing; God encompasses the things they do.

Sura 4
114 No good is there in much of their conspiring, except for him who bids to freewill offering, or honour, or setting things right between the people. Whoso does that, seeking God's good pleasure, We shall surely give him a mighty wage.

Need me to find verses where all non Muslims are idolaters and what should be done to them?

That is the difference. Bible talks about Jews and what they should do to other Jews, Koran talks about Muslims and non Muslims and what Muslims should do to non Muslims.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: nunka

And there are all kinds of violent passages in the Old Testament:

Yes, which are for Israel, and only apply to the Jews. Very different than violent passages that talk about Muslims being violent to non Muslims.

Which is why I asked why they are included in the Bible used by all Christians, but that's beside the point and not the real issue.

If someone is going to make claims that Islam condones murder and killing, its only fair play to point out that other religions do so as well.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: nunka

And there are all kinds of violent passages in the Old Testament:

Yes, which are for Israel, and only apply to the Jews. Very different than violent passages that talk about Muslims being violent to non Muslims.

Which is why I asked why they are included in the Bible used by all Christians, but that's beside the point and not the real issue.

If someone is going to make claims that Islam condones murder and killing, its only fair play to point out that other religions do so as well.

Yes. Difference being the OT condones murdering treacherous Jews under specific conditions. Koran condones murdering everyone, and the only condition needed is being a non believer.

ONLY Jews are held to the OT laws, Muslims hold EVERYONE to their laws. It's an important difference.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Here's one from the OT about kiling people from other religions:

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

And here's one from Numbers about killing non-Israelites:

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

So, the argument that the OT was "Jews against other Jews" is patently false. There are many passages in the OT about killing non-Jewish people. In fact, there were entire wars fought against non-Jewish people. Here's one about storming Babylon:

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

And what about the people living in Jericho?

When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)

All Abrahamic religions (which Islam is one) have stories of murder against non-belivers. Islam isn't alone in this by any stretch of the imagination.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Ya heard that cop put but yet the 10 commandments are still alive and well and so is creation. Seems like modern day just likes to pick the 'good' stuff out if the ot and then ignore what gives them the black eye.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
And here's one from Numbers about killing non-Israelites:

Sure about that?

Num 25:5
So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”

Those of YOUR people. Who do you think "YOUR people" are when Moses is talking to Israeli judges?

a reply to: Sremmos80

Nope, feel free to choose anything you like, just don't remove the context, because then you are only showing a lie.

So what is the take away from this? Do we lower the IQ of the average person to that of a raw egg? I remember years ago a friend told me with a few dollars you can have someone quote - in yer back parket. And he only went up to school like to like the the 8th grade. Other than that, i have no other answer here. Butother than than that...hey things didnt work out too well for lenny bruce right? We would listent to his tapes over and over and i remeber lenny said the truth is what is and well he dead now.

I always loved this guy and sometime i watch this video because its all we have. he died really young

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: scubagravy

Maybe you didn't understand me but i did agree with you on having faith within oneself.

originally posted by: DaExpletive
a reply to: Krazysh0t
So you admit that it is really happening. And so your argument is now that it will take a few generations, so it is not a problem? Wth?

No actually I said that according to the math it would take a long time to happen. I said nothing about my opinion on the matter. You'd realize this if you stopped being so derisive to me and actually read my words a bit more carefully.

''Progressive'' people in Eu, talk about multiculturalism all the time but do you think most muslims want to be part of a multicultural society?

You would assume they are adapting to their new societies, but in reality very few are adapting, instead they are creating parallel muslim societies in the countries they live, keeping their Nationalism strong and alive while demanding your Nationalism to loosen up.

They demand us to accept their culture in our countries, but they have ''religious'' difficulties accepting ours.

As they grow in numbers they are changing societies, creating no-go zones, ''ghettos'' and expressing their xenophobia to you, in your own country, city, neighborhood...
for ex. European citizens are not allowed to cover their face, identity wt....
Furthermore women in Europe are not the slaves of their husbands,

Why should we make exceptions, change our laws and allow their burkas, veils, suppression of women, and various dark age traditions that are against the principles and ethics of Eu?

If you want to come to Western societies, you have to adapt to, and respect the laws, and forget your dark age traditions
You can't demand the society to change and adapt to you.
This is at least disrespectful... and undemocratic for the minority to get it's way.

Political correctness, should be expected from both sides
otherwise when you play the sheep, the others play the wolf.

Imagine for a moment yourself being an immigrant in their theocratic countries and demanding churches, atheist schools, gay rights, women freedom, or even no -go zones in their countries. etc.
Can anyone guess the outcome?

Generally speaking now,
It's ok to be open minded and have good feelings for all, but with caution and understanding of each situation.
Respect those who respect you back.... otherwise you are just their ''sucker''.
Because we unfortunately don't live in a heavenly Utopia, and most people want to take advantage of your liberal ideas.
If we wait for a cold shower of reality to change our minds, it might be too late...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
All Abrahamic religions (which Islam is one) have stories of murder against non-belivers. Islam isn't alone in this by any stretch of the imagination.

Islam is the only one of the Abrahamic religions that still kills non-believers today.
The others left that in the middle ages...

comparing verses of violence isn't helping your argument either
Check this out and then compare Islam with Christianity or even Judaism.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: angeldoll

If people want to act like the bible doesn't say the same things that people condemn Islam and the Koran for then yes it will be pointed out.

I don't know anybody who's acting. Do you? How? Christian said: Old Testament? What's that? Never heard of it. lol. Right.

But I've got it now, the scales have fallen from my eyes thanks to your brilliant perspective!

Islam: Awesome Angels incapable of doing wrong except in self defense. They follow their book!

Christianity: Evildoers. The OT instructs them to kill people, yet they ignore it. Must be evildoers.

Jews: Satan's spawn.

*note I post on these threads unwittingly, wouldn't do it if I knew in advance it was Christian paranoia. But sometimes they get Off topic, (I'm sure not intentionally lol) and in that event I leave. Sometimes I get enough Atheist 'enlightenment' for one day.

a reply to: earthling42

your probably right, my mind is in all sorts of late.

originally posted by: Klassified Are they causing any real problems? Are they lawless?

The Dutch are just people. We have madmen, idiots and saints. We have smart and dumb people. Women, men. Christians, Muslims, Atheists. Socialists, Liberals. White, black and yellow. Those that were born in the country, those that were not. Those that obey the laws. Those that do not.

We are just people. Weak, stupid, ignorant at times. Strong when we love, care, befriend. Weak when we hate and point at others - worst case with a live gun.

"They" do not exist. But "we" do. And we need to find a way to clean up this mess, preferably without killing any more people.

a reply to: angeldoll

I don't think your outline is accurate at all. Should just say just that all have small sects that are extremist that make the rest look bad.

And that they are all really the same religion but just changed names through time.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: angeldoll

If people want to act like the bible doesn't say the same things that people condemn Islam and the Koran for then yes it will be pointed out.

You do realize almost all of that is directed at Israel and only applies to other Israelis right?

Whereas the Koran is directed at non Muslims.

Here is a verse you mentioned ...

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Since the US is not Israel it does not apply. The OT laws do not apply to Christians as explained in the Bible. It only applies to Jewish Christians.

Mmmm hmmm! You tell it!

(NT says- You are dead to the law!)