Can You Keep the U.S. Safe Without Invading Our Privacy?

We lose more freedoms to our own government than we do to some outside entity! I'm fired up about the freedoms at stake when the NSA increases its power to spy on United States citizens. Do I think we need to be kept safe from terrorism? Or is there something more insidious in our backyards that we should be kept safe from?

a reply to: JesseVentura

In my city, the police squad cars no longer read "to serve and protect". They now read "serving the community".

If the people I live near, grew up with are no longer wanting to protect me, do I think total strangers who take my right to pursue MY happiness , that being the NSA and cohorts, will protect me?

Let me have my rights and leave me to protect my own and those around me.

a reply to: JesseVentura

Yes, we can.

All we need to do is clear out the idiots in Washington, D.C. and stop bombing people in the Middle East. We have people in D.C. that don't have our best interest in mind and frankly I am tired of being part of a country that bombs people 24/7 for no good reason.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: JesseVentura

Yes, we can.

All we need to do is clear out the idiots in Washington, D.C. and stop bombing people in the Middle East.

Stopping the bombing in the ME is going to keep Radicals from attacking anyone else, as well as prevent the Puzzle Palace from listening in..?

I remember my first joint too...

No, you can't keep the US safe without invading our privacy. Nor can you keep the US safe by invading our privacy. Freedom is not safe. Being alive isn't safe. Safety is an illusion.

a reply to: JesseVentura

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have suggested before that I personally do not care if they read every e-mail or eavesdrop on any of my phone calls, I have nothing to hide.

Question is where terrorists cells are involved, and I do believe they exist on American soil, don't we want them caught before they blow up or shoot up American citizens? Are we not willing to allow them to keep tabs on us for the sake of our children? Or our parents?

If you have nothing to hide why do you care? You want your privacy? They only care if your are doing something illegal that has direct overtures or tendencies towards violence.

I say reinstate it, give us Patriot Act II. Do it now.

The answer is NO.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
No, you can't keep the US safe without invading our privacy. Nor can you keep the US safe by invading our privacy. Freedom is not safe. Being alive isn't safe. Safety is an illusion.

That's right, they can't keep us safe no how much they spy on us but they sure can and do waste and steal money, and take away freedoms in the name of keeping us safe.

Yes!

Do what you did before the tech!

a reply to: JesseVentura

Do I think we need to be kept safe from terrorism? Or is there something more insidious in our backyards that we should be kept safe from?

With the NSA, Echelon, Five Eyes, things like 9/11 and Paris last weekend still happen.

All this technology does is ensure that nothing gets in the way of the "false flag events" and the planning thereof by our "elected" cough cough Legislators! Bring on Patriot Act 2, 3, 4...etc

We can if people stop believing they are going to be involved in a terror attack. We don't need governments keeping a permanent eye on us to keep us safe. Simply accepting there are possible dangers in life is enough for me. I will still get in a car and walk the streets, which is statistically much more life threatening than being involved in terror incidents . Life has risks it always has, my grandparents survived 2 world wars responsible for millions of deaths without having restrictions on their freedoms or even the appetite for more security measures given to the government. If people assessed the potential risks in their life, they wouldn't be eating unhealthy foods and guzzling down sodas or driving on the freeway, but for some reason people are # scared of the terrorist boogie man, when assessed is very low down on your personal risk assessment.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
No, you can't keep the US safe without invading our privacy. Nor can you keep the US safe by invading our privacy. Freedom is not safe. Being alive isn't safe. Safety is an illusion.

More like a delusion. There's no such thing as "safety" in REALITY. It's all a bunch of bull#. COMPLETE "safety" never has, and never will be a reality.

a reply to: JesseVentura

Of course you can

How was it done before lol

You can't defeat "terror" with bombs, bullets or more "security". TPTB aren't ruling with an "iron fist". They're ruling by "fear".

a reply to: Metallicus

This. Nothing more needs to be said.

originally posted by: JesseVentura
We lose more freedoms to our own government than we do to some outside entity! I'm fired up about the freedoms at stake when the NSA increases its power to spy on United States citizens. Do I think we need to be kept safe from terrorism? Or is there something more insidious in our backyards that we should be kept safe from?

The answer to your direct question is no. No amount of security can protect us from every threat. If we increase security to the maximum possible (and correspondingly decrease freedom) there is still some degree of threats that can get through. If taken to the extreme, if every citizen in the US were put in an 8x10 cell and none of us had any contact with anyone else, there would still be security threats from the government officials that aren't in cells or from foreign nationals that we can't do anything about.

The broader question that you're getting at is this: Should we even try to keep people safe from terrorism? And I think the answer to that is again for the most part, no. Benjamin Franklin was quite wise when he spoke of liberty and security. It always costs more to defend against potential threats than it costs for someone else to carry them out. 9/11 cost us how much in money and lives? How much have we lost since then in terms of liberties and money despite there being no evidence of there being any followup direct threat to our airliners? Those security costs are always going to exist, and the bad guys don't even have to ever plan to make that type of attack ever again, the mere threat that they could do it means we have to address it.

Terrorism can never win a military battle, it wins through economics. A few low budget highly visible attacks can cost the victim nation billions and even trillions of dollars. Al Qaeda spend a couple million on 9/11 and they've cost us #3 trillion dollars so far in a response. All they need to do is similar attacks a few times and the nation will break. Not to give anyone ideas, but imagine if a couple Muslim extremists went around killing police officers, what would our response be? 5 executions would be enough to seriously ratchet up a police state just in the name of safety.

The best response to terrorism isn't one of reactive defense where we try and stop attacks but one of making proactive policies that avoids the situations which creates these extremists in the first place. If we had left Saddam in place in Iraq ISIS never would have become the threat they are today. If we got Iran on board 20 years ago rather than trying to encourage the populace to overthrow their government OPEC would have lost relevancy long ago and the radicals their oil money funded (particularly through the Saudi's) never would have happened.

What we are facing now is only a domestic security threat because of decades of compounded foreign policy failures. We never should have been asking this question on the need of a police state because we never should have let the world get into this situation in the first place.

Keep this in mind, from our perspective these people are terrorists, but from their perspective their freedom fighters opposing powers that have invaded them and controlled their government for a very long time. How would the people of the US react to China if China had come in, removed our government, propped up their own puppet government, and then dictated policy to us for a generation? I think we would be striking out too.

There's no easy or short term fix to this, but we can start taking actions now to alleviate the problem in the future and that begins with getting out of the Middle East, and then going about our lives without fear of retaliation. The moment we give into that fear is the moment we vote away our freedom.

I keep wondering why do people care so much. For all those analysts at nsa we are just the numbers. I don't care if they look at pic of my d*ck or what hour I leave my house.
The other thing that's really interesting though is if they use all that data as Intel or if it's some sinister agenda.

a reply to: JesseVentura

With the current mention of terrorism and terrorists being well and truly spun round and round on the news, it is no surprise that the NSA wish to condone this kind of 'protection'. They enable media to push the fear of terrorism into the hearts and minds of American population and that of the world to. They then ask the population (once they have caused enough worry) you want to be protected? They openly say yes and the government says, sure. Let us monitor everything you say and do, in all day and life. Let us create profiles on you in order to understand the person you are, without you knowing we have a profile on you. Thus allowing any government with this in place to then manipulate the websites you visit with propaganda, furthering their agendas. Inject your chats and ideas, with a knock at the door to lock you up for having a view...... I could continue.

Worrying, for everyone.....

a reply to: JesseVentura

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Ben Franklin

True now as it was then.

Safety is an illusion. You are never safe. Anything can and will happen, at any time.

To pretend that a Government can keep it's citizens safe, is the ultimate form of propaganda.

The only way personal safety can be anything close to attained is by the individual, and even that's never 100%.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
No, you can't keep the US safe without invading our privacy. Nor can you keep the US safe by invading our privacy. Freedom is not safe. Being alive isn't safe. Safety is an illusion.

An outstanding post!

So they've been invading our privacy and assaulting our constitution for about 15 years now, and it works so well they did not have a clue about Paris or Mali, at least according to the official story.

The Global War On Terror is a hoax of epic proportions.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
No, you can't keep the US safe without invading our privacy. Nor can you keep the US safe by invading our privacy. Freedom is not safe. Being alive isn't safe. Safety is an illusion.

There is another reason we will never be safe - it doesn't serve the interests of the PTB or the NWO for us to be safe.
Fear is the greatest motivator there is.
That is the one tool they will never stop using on us all.

ETA: What else is there for them to look at?
They already monitor everything we write, say and do.