‘Blood on his hands’: CIA officials, others implicate Snowden disclosures in Paris attack

a reply to: InnerPeace2012

The CIA have a proven track records stained in blood... From overthrowing democracy, to assassinations and training of terrorists.

To me this just shows they want Snowden BAD. Obviously he has more information they are terrified of the public finding out.

They want the world to demand Snowden to be brought to the states for a "fair" trial.

To me it looks they are in fear because they don't know how much or what kind of information he might have.

Using every opportunity to call for his arrest... funny...

Yes, the powers-that-be are scrambling to get the most mileage out of the Paris attacks. Blame Snowden, blame Manning, blame all the whistleblowers.

They are using the story to justify their existence and the war on terror hoax. Shameful but predictable.

Snowden basically just brought it to everyone's attention that the government is spying on your dick pics. And that prompted a terrorist attack...how many years later?

Meanwhile, 14 years of intrusive spying on its own citizens and allies and all they have to show for it is 60 thwarted terror plots....almost all of which weren't actually stopped ahead of time (attempt to detonate a shoe bomb) and probably most of which involved undercover govt agents behind the scenes EGGING THEM ON.
Wiki Terror List

Yeah....totally Snowden's fault (sarcasm). Couldn't possibly be complete incompetence on the part of the people wasting resources spying on MILLIONS of people that are nowhere near actual terrorists (more sarcasm). And now that I've voiced my distain for the system I'm afraid I might be on a terrorist list (not sarcasm, an actual fear of mine). Because, ya know, an intelligent law abiding citizen who points out the ineptitude of the government is TOTALLY on the same level as terrorist extremists actually trying to harm people (back to sarcasm).

a reply to: pteridine

Snowden wanted to be a popular hero and spill the beans about the evil government spying on everybody. Now that his revelations have helped ISIS and other terrorists see how to circumvent surveillance and attack without any warning, he may be less a popular hero amongst all but the most starry eyed fanboys.

If terrorists had ANY intelligence whatsoever (an oxymoron, I know) they would go ahead and assume that governments and militaries would have a hard on to intercept their communications. And how easy is that if your communications are via computer? All it would take is one good hacker and they'd be reading every Tweet and e-mail and sext you ever dreamed of sending. IF they had any forethought, they would be avoiding a 'paper trail' anyway.

To blame Snowden for suddenly alerting terrorists to government spying is naive at best. His revelations woke up the MILLIONS of innocent citizens and allies who were being spied on with no justification. He shed light on the massive overreach of the government, the violation of rights of INNOCENT people. Nothing he's revealed could possibly be of concrete use for terrorists, and any change in their technique is a result of an ongoing reaction and natural evolution not because of the revelation that the government spies on everyone's electronic communications.

Hero not traitor.

And if you still believe he's a traitor, let me ask you....are you totally ok with NSA agents passing around your dick picks and laughing at them? Do you feel safer because of it?

Snowden did not see the whole picture of what he was doing. He honestly believed he was doing us a favor by leaking secrets, etc. He was a hero, a pioneer, someone brave enough to stand up to the machine!!!

Right????

He had no idea what is actions did, he could only see the trees. I think blaming him is NOT far-fetched. He made us vulnerable. Im sure he meant well, but there were consequences to his actions, some that we probably have not even seen yet.

He is a sad ignorant boy who failed to be a hero, IMO.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

"And if you still believe he's a traitor, let me ask you....are you totally ok with NSA agents passing around your dick picks and laughing at them? Do you feel safer because of it?"

He violated his oath. My opinion is that this seemed like a good idea to him at 3am after a half dozen beers and that he has come to regret it. Now he has to live it out and play the martyred hero to the masses. When Russia is done with him, the US will get him back while the Russians laugh at the contortions of the press and the government.

Yes, NSA has the time and desire to sort through every email and text looking for cheap thrills. Do you think that they have a human look at each communication or maybe just have a supercomputer sort for key words? What sort of photos do you send around that you are worried about? Do you have a fixation on certain photos?

a reply to: pteridine

Really? Lack of intelligence, you must be speaking about yourself...

BBC

Next day, the very next day, already demanding tech companies handover their encryption keys, alrady saying how they need to be able to access all data. No warrants, no oversight. Problem, reaction, solution. Happens every single god damn time

You are being played by the propoganda and cannot even see it. But don't worry they have already won as the headless chickens run around screaming "save me, save me from the evil terrorists, take away my privacy, lock me in a cage, just saveeeeeee me"

originally posted by: PrinceDreamer
a reply to: pteridine

Really? Lack of intelligence, you must be speaking about yourself...

BBC

Next day, the very next day, already demanding tech companies handover their encryption keys, alrady saying how they need to be able to access all data. No warrants, no oversight. Problem, reaction, solution. Happens every single god damn time

You are being played by the propoganda and cannot even see it. But don't worry they have already won as the headless chickens run around screaming "save me, save me from the evil terrorists, take away my privacy, lock me in a cage, just saveeeeeee me"

The government has been wanting encryption keys for a while now. This is nothing new; every time an terror event happens, they complain about it. They may get them and then again, they may not....or they may already have them and are leading the terrorists [and drug cartels and inside traders and other such] into a feeling of false security. This could be a play on the world stage. If I was the Government and had the keys, I would continue to whine about not having them. Reference WW2 and the code breakers.

You are being played by those who have their own agendas. Some are altruistic, some want accolades, some are worried because they are outside the law. When you broadcast an electronic communication, do you expect that no one but the addressee will see it? How many of your emails are encrypted? Do you send anything of cosmic importance?

As to the "lack of intelligence" line, that was a repeat of your drama queen text. Maybe you forgot you wrote it while in the throes of a genius seizure.

I know I am in the vast minority here but....

Edward Snowden is nothing but a slimy little weasel who deserves nothing less than a round right between the eyes after being found guilty of espionage. And he would be found guilty.

My guess is they wouldn't have have any trouble finding volunteers to pull the trigger.

a reply to: pteridine

You're probably on a watch list just for being a member of this site. Do you truly feel safer knowing that?

And as much as you condemn Snowden, you or I wouldn't even have an inkling that it was even a possibility before he came along. Now we accept it as fact.

And you're right, they don't have the personnel to sift through every piece of info. But if you're on a watch list you get top priority to be watched. And what gets you on a watch list? Who knows? How do you know if you're on a watch list? You don't. Who supervises the watch lists? Who supervises the supervisors? Like I said, just for being a member of this site every single keystroke from your IP address could be monitored by a human being working for NSA. You. Not a terrorist in Afghanistan.

It's Snowden's fault, sure, and not the French intelligence service that had the intel that a terrorist attack might occur, but yet they did nothing to at least try and stop it

originally posted by: RickinVa
I know I am in the vast minority here but....

Edward Snowden is nothing but a slimy little weasel who deserves nothing less than a round right between the eyes after being found guilty of espionage. And he would be found guilty.

My guess is they wouldn't have have any trouble finding volunteers to pull the trigger.

I have to disagree. Edward Snowden is a true hero up along other great Americans like Eisenhower, Washington and Lincoln. Some of us don't like live in a Soviet Era Surveillance State. You might, and if you do, they have a nice one up in North Korea. No Terror Attacks there ever. Very safe.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: pteridine

You're probably on a watch list just for being a member of this site. Do you truly feel safer knowing that?

And as much as you condemn Snowden, you or I wouldn't even have an inkling that it was even a possibility before he came along. Now we accept it as fact.

And you're right, they don't have the personnel to sift through every piece of info. But if you're on a watch list you get top priority to be watched. And what gets you on a watch list? Who knows? How do you know if you're on a watch list? You don't. Who supervises the watch lists? Who supervises the supervisors? Like I said, just for being a member of this site every single keystroke from your IP address could be monitored by a human being working for NSA. You. Not a terrorist in Afghanistan.

As to having inklings about watch lists and NSA computers, Snowden was a late arrival and really didn't add to that inkle. Why would they add people from this site to a watch list? I know some fantasize that they are treading the thin, dangerous line of rebellion by being on ATS, but this site is for harmless speculation and anyone from this site that is on a watch list is there for other reasons.
Home grown terrorists are a bigger threat than those from Afghanistan. Protocols are in place for who does what. Legal cases are built slowly unless an immediate threat is perceived. Key words and phrases bring attention to people who are then looked at more carefully. If I started publishing syntheses of TATP and visiting radical Islam sites, I expect that I would be investigated a bit further. Maybe agents would look carefully at my associates and keep track of my movements.
Maybe I am already on a watch list because of my skillsets. That is a distinct possibility. Maybe I am an agent provocateur helping others get on watch lists. I suspect that there are some of those on ATS and similar forums.
Maybe NSA just finds my posts fascinating reading.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: RickinVa
I know I am in the vast minority here but....

Edward Snowden is nothing but a slimy little weasel who deserves nothing less than a round right between the eyes after being found guilty of espionage. And he would be found guilty.

My guess is they wouldn't have have any trouble finding volunteers to pull the trigger.

I have to disagree. Edward Snowden is a true hero up along other great Americans like Eisenhower, Washington and Lincoln. Some of us don't like live in a Soviet Era Surveillance State. You might, and if you do, they have a nice one up in North Korea. No Terror Attacks there ever. Very safe.

Eisenhower, Washington, Lincoln, and Snowden? The other guys worked, long term, on great things that required ability and vision and had serious consequences if they failed. Snowden just published stolen information and ran away. Possibly, you might want to compare him to lesser 'heroes.'
This is probably news to you, but you are already living in a Surveillance State as is the rest of the first world.

Here's a list of Americans killed by terrorists, by annually...source, Wikipedia.

2000s[edit]
2000 - USS Cole attacked, 17 U.S. Navy sailors killed, 39 sailors injured.
2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks, 2,997 killed by Islamic fundamentalists
2002 - Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and beheaded in Karachi
2002 - Nine people killed by bomb blast near US embassy in Lima - seen as attempt to disrupt forthcoming visit by President George W. Bush.
2002-2006 - Karachi consulate attacks: three separate attacks killed 18 people (including an American diplomat) and injured 87.
2002 - Two Marines shot, one killed in Kuwait.
2003 - Riyadh Compound Bombings kill 35, including 9 Americans.
2003 - Three American diplomats are killed by a roadside bomb targeting their convoy in Gaza. Palestine Resistance Committees, an umbrella organization has taken responsibility for the attack."[2]
2003–present - Damascus terrorist attacks: American interests in Syria targeted by Islamists.
2004 - Civilians Nick Berg, Jack Hensley, and Eugene Armstrong kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq.
2004 - Paul Marshall Johnson, Jr, civilian working in Saudi Arabia, kidnapped and beheaded; five other Americans die in attacks in Saudi Arabia in 2004.
2007 - American embassy attacked in Athens, Greece.
2008 - John Granville, US diplomat, assassinated in Khartoum, Sudan
2009 - Thirteen people, mostly U.S. military personnel, were killed and more than 30 others wounded at Fort Hood, Texas, in a shooting rampage by disgruntled Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, who during his trial claimed to be waging an Islamic jihad against the United States.
2010s[edit]
2011 - 2011 Tucson shooting where U.S. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot. 6 others were killed.
2012 – US Embassy in Libya was attacked. The ambassador and three other Americans were killed.
2012 – Sikh temple in Wisconsin was attacked by a white supremacist. Six Americans were killed, not including the perpetrator, who committed suicide.
2013 – 2013 Boston Marathon bombings, 3 killed, 183 injured. April 15.
2014 – 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers, 3 teens kidnapped and murdered, Hamas suspected, including 1, Naftali Frenkel, an American citizen. June 12.
2015 - 2015 Charleston, South Carolina shooting, a prayer service attended by state senator Rev. Clementa C. Pinckney was attacked by a gunman. 9 people were killed, including the senator.

Edward Snowden came public in mid 2013.

Another fun fact: in 2014 about 1,100 American citizens were killed by police.

So...
terrorism fatalities did NOT increase following Snowden coming public
and...
according to the statistics gathered for 2014, you are 1,100 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than you are a terrorist.

'Murica F*ck Yeah!


PS to pteridine- You know, I used to think I had nothing to hide because I wasn't doing anything wrong. Then my previous employer took some things I said completely out of context and used it to trash my reputation and end my employment. Trust me, you may think you have nothing to worry about, but if 'they' are gunning for you, it doesn't take much to manipulate any little thing to their favor. THAT is what is so scary about Snowden's revelations, the potential abuse of an unsupervised system. Based on my past experience with the corruption in local government, I can only imagine how bad things get the higher up you go. Even high level politicians don't know what the hell the NSA is doing. THAT is scary.

Think about the family that got raided because the mom was doing internet searches for pressure cookers (she liked quinoa) and the son was doing searches for backpacks (he needed a new one). A completely innocent, American family was raided by government officials based on nothing more than a couple of internet searches. That does not make me feel safer.

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: RickinVa
I know I am in the vast minority here but....

Edward Snowden is nothing but a slimy little weasel who deserves nothing less than a round right between the eyes after being found guilty of espionage. And he would be found guilty.

My guess is they wouldn't have have any trouble finding volunteers to pull the trigger.

I have to disagree. Edward Snowden is a true hero up along other great Americans like Eisenhower, Washington and Lincoln. Some of us don't like live in a Soviet Era Surveillance State. You might, and if you do, they have a nice one up in North Korea. No Terror Attacks there ever. Very safe.

Eisenhower, Washington, Lincoln, and Snowden? The other guys worked, long term, on great things that required ability and vision and had serious consequences if they failed. Snowden just published stolen information and ran away. Possibly, you might want to compare him to lesser 'heroes.'
This is probably news to you, but you are already living in a Surveillance State as is the rest of the first world.

You have a point, but Snowden opened many eyes and took all of that out into the open. Things never change unless we acknowledge truth and reality. His revelations where/are huge! Keep in mind that he risked death and life in prison and torture. What's worse than that? He lost everything. You say ran away, I say escaped. I consider what he did on par with the greatest, like Washington. Just my opinion of course.

I don’t know that Snowden has ‘blood on his hands’, but I do think he’s self-promoting and delusional. I recall thinking back when the “revelations” of Fast Eddie went viral, “This is news?” I couldn’t believe that everyone on the planet didn’t already know this stuff was going on. It has always struck me how so many people voluntarily visit social networking sites, spilling their guts and opinions to absolute strangers, and use cloud services to store their data, and then were shocked and appauled that their “private” communications might be compromised. I mean, come on, gimme a break.

The USA, and every other country in the world, have spy agencies. We ALL spy on each other for a variety of reasons. Not only this, but we ALL spy on ourselves, as well. We’ve engaged in this activity for as long as humans have walked the planet. As populations explode, and the world gets increasingly crazy and complicated, the demand for security becomes greater and greater. This, coupled with the fact the we are now living in (surprise, surprise) the Electronic Information Age, inevitably results in a more sophisticated, more penetrating spying apparatus. It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out, and should come as a surprise to only the most naive and least informed of us. The spy agencies are in a lose/lose position. People kick and scream about them violating our privacy and spying on us, demanding that their scope of surveillance be limited, and yet if another 9/11 occurs they’ll be condemned for not adequately doing their jobs and being on top of it. They can’t win.

It’s odd to me that most folks are so troubled about the government collecting information about our online activities, while at the same time being so complacent about the large corporations doing the same damned thing. Especially considering the fact that these corporations have siezed so much control over our government and are rapidly taking the reigns. At least in the case of the security agencies I can see some legitimate value in the attempt to track bad guys. It’s a little harder for me to justify major corporations collecting my every keystroke. I guess more people are concerned about the government seeing their dick picks than some dude sitting in a Google/Facebook/Reddit data warehouse seeing them.

At any rate, whenever you connect to the internet, you broadcast to the world, “Hello world! Here I am, and here’s my address!” It’s just the nature of being a node on a network. Anyone with the proper skill-set can hack you and trace your activity. In my case, and most others, it would be a waste of time to monitor/analyze my activity in search of anything nefarious. So, it doesn’t worry me. For that matter, you might consider cookies an invasion of privacy since they do reveal info about you and your online activity. Most major companies plant these little spies on your system whenever you go online. Where are all the cries about the evil corporate cookie monster? I haven’t heard them. I read so many posts by outraged folks screaming about their Constitutional privacy rights being violated by the government, but not so much about all the countless companies/corporations who collect their data and spy on them routinely.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that I think it’s OK that all of this is going on. All I’m saying is, it is what it is. I’m a member of this forum and a few others. So, I’m not hiding anything from anyone who really wants to know. I guess I’m jaded, but I figure the government and major corps, at the very least, have whatever online data about me that they care to gather. I’m quite aware of the Big Brother scenarios that come to mind, but I’m just not going to allow myself to become paranoid over it. The ONLY thing Ed Snowden said that I agree with is that our privacy is a thing of the past. But then, I knew that already.

I think it may be too late to change this trend (electronic surveillance). I’m pretty sure it’s way too late. We’re slaves to the Internet and love our smartphones way too much to give them up. Technology will continue to advance and further tresspass into our private lives, becoming ever more easy and intrusive. Google, as well as many other major corps, are currently investing significantly in what’s called the “Internet of Things”. Talk about an intrusive violation of privacy, this one takes the cake. More and more our household appliances will not only be equipped and capable of talking to the internet, they’ll be able to talk to each other, as well. Nothing is sacred! Now, when my toaster starts spamming me, maybe then I’ll start getting a little paranoid.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: InnerPeace2012

Really?

OK, well, I blame the creation of Israel, the unfettered support for Israel by certain western governments even through blatant slaughter of Palestinians, the CIA, the invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent slaughter of innocent Afghans, the invasion of Iraq and subsequent slaughter of innocent Iraqis, western involvement in Libya and now Syria.

But yeah, lets all blame the whistleblower because he aired the US's dirty laundry.

Tom Clancy couldn't make this sh!t up, I swear, the western propaganda machine is scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses when it's blatantly obvious to blind Freddy who is to blame and why.

S&F for posting what is quintessential propaganda from the MSM.

Blame Israel?!

How about some accountability? I'm so sick of people finding someone else to push responsibility off on.

The cowards that pulled triggers and detonated suicide vests are to blame. No one forced their hands. It's not Israel's fault, not America's fault, not Snowden's fault.

ACCOUNTABILITY.

We are responsible for what we do in life. Period.