Opus Dei and Catholic fundamentalism

I was reading a thread that discussed the possibility of Christian fundamentalist groups crusading against the Muslims in Mecca and Medina. Personally I think it is a rather probable scenario.

Opus Dei is a sect of ultra orthodox funamentalism headquartered in NYC. They believe in strict ritualistic behavior including corporal mortification ( beating and causing pain to oneself ). The use cilces which are basiaclly barbed wire strapped around the thigh that they tighten to cause pain to remind them of Christs suffering. They also use a " discipline " whic is a whip that they whack themselves woth. Now I am all for sacrifice and empathy towards Christ , but self mutilation is IMO absurd.

Some questions:

Are there any members of Opus Dei that visit this website?

What is the likelyhood that Opus Dei would launch retaliatory strikes against the Muslim shrines?

The ancient sects as the Masons and the Knights Templar where originally started to battle the Muslims - have times changed for the memebers of these sects, is Opus Dei related ? and will they attack the Muslim religion?

I dont really know which topic is best for the discussion so I will leave it here and up to the moderators to position where they see fit



LINK TO OFFICIAL OPUS DEI WEBSITE: www.opusdei.org...

Any input , as always , is appreciated


ALias Jones

ok , I know , so before you start , yes , I am reading The Davinci Code , but I wanted to put some serious discussion forward as to the real events and real history of this most mysterious subject.

I will research the Sangreal, Priory of Sion, Opus Dei, and relevant favvts about them and post it here. I am doingthis mainly to educate myself, but as I have stated already any input from ATS is welcome.

Does anyone have any links to the vatican library ?

Does anyone have any links regarding the vatican observatory and its research findings. I am curious as to just what the Church is looking at ? for ?


Does anyone hane any links to anamolies regardingthe works of Da Vinci?


LINK to info on Sion: www.fiu.edu...

LINK to Priory of Sion : www.fiu.edu...

I don't think Opus Dei would do anything like that following the bad reputation it got from the Da Vinci code. But I could see a small group or person similar to timoth mcveigh doing it.

Are there any members of Opus Dei that visit this website?

Yes.

What is the likelyhood that Opus Dei would launch retaliatory strikes against the Muslim shrines?

Beyond unlikely. There is no outward violence at all in Opus Dei members. They are stringent in their own beliefs and behaviors. They do not direct their stringency toward other persons whether or not those other persons ascribe to similar beliefs. Sorry to burst your bubble. Makes a great fantasy, but not at all a likely scenario.

Again, those who entertain the idea of Christian terrorism are either misidentifying radical persons as Christians or do not understand the concept of professed Christianity.

I've lurked here for a while, and had to register when I read this. To cut to the chase, I'm a Master Mason, I've been through the Shrine, and soon will be going throught Scottish Rite (32 degree). Ironically, a family that we've been close to over the years is vehemently Catholic; they are Opus Dei members. They are great people, if somewhat pains in the a** with the religious stuff at times. The oldest son actually went to Rome a couple years back to see their saint get canonized.

While there are hints of a sub-organization somewhere in Masonry, most of the old farts in this group (I'm the second youngest in my early 40's) are lucky to get up in the morning. I like the historical stuff- and the guys are OK, too. For those that think there's a mystery, do a Google search for "Masonry Entered Apprentice" or some such- you'll find some guys that have had Jesus tell them that they have to get out to save their souls. They turn around and publish all the rituals on their websites...so much for mystery.

Before the oldest son of the family mentioned above went to the Naval Academy, I used to work out with him at the gym to get this stick of a kid ready for PT. One day he turned to me and said "Don't Masons worship Satan?" Sigh. I looked at him and said "Don't Opus Dei nuts beat themselves with barbed wire?".

Every group has nuts in it, and every group has, IMO, sub-groups that like to run around playing "I've got a secret". I'll be you $5 that there is a group of Masons somewhere with a hell of a lot of influence, AND that there's some Opus Dei members that literally hurt themselves.

Keep in mind that these folks are probably very much in the minority.

Originally posted by Alias Jones
I was reading a thread that discussed the possibility of Christian fundamentalist groups crusading against the Muslims in Mecca and Medina. Personally I think it is a rather probable scenario.

Opus Dei is a sect of ultra orthodox funamentalism headquartered in NYC. They believe in strict ritualistic behavior including corporal mortification ( beating and causing pain to oneself ). The use cilces which are basiaclly barbed wire strapped around the thigh that they tighten to cause pain to remind them of Christs suffering. They also use a " discipline " whic is a whip that they whack themselves woth. Now I am all for sacrifice and empathy towards Christ , but self mutilation is IMO absurd.

Some questions:

Are there any members of Opus Dei that visit this website?

What is the likelyhood that Opus Dei would launch retaliatory strikes against the Muslim shrines?

Extremely small to none. They'd need papal authority if nothing else and the pope has been a bit of a pacifist for a while now. In the lead up to the Iraq War he sent emissaries to the Vice President of Iraq, Tariq Assiz, a Roman Catholic. Emmisaries, not assasins.

The ancient sects as the Masons and the Knights Templar where originally started to battle the Muslims

Since when were the masons founded for this? And the Knights Templar, technically they were founded to protect pilgrims to jerusalem and the holy land, which happened to require fighting muslims. But their charge wasn't to wage war against the Caliphate and all of islam.

- have times changed for the memebers of these sects

The Templars were disbanded and eradicated and who ever survived and went underground apparently didn't 'keep the faith' so to speak. I'd think that htey have more of a problem with the Vatican than Mecca if they still existed anyway.

is Opus Dei related ?

I've never heard of any connections, indeed, how could it be connected to the Masons.

The Church Militant is a bit out of fashion, but if i were the pope and I wanted to strike against islam for some insane reason, then I'd leave it up to the Jesuits and send the Knights Hospitalar for support.

I will research the Sangreal, Priory of Sion, Opus Dei, and relevant favvts about them and post it here

i think you'd get further if you researched history rather than works of fiction like the davinci code and frauds liek the 'priory of sion'.

Does anyone have any links regarding the vatican observatory and its research findings. I am curious as to just what the Church is looking at ? for ?

The pope takes a keen interest in science and apparently is fond of astronomy.

cjane
Again, those who entertain the idea of Christian terrorism are either misidentifying radical persons as Christians or do not understand the concept of professed Christianity.

This is something of a 'no true scotsman' fallacy no? A person can certainly be a christian in every way and still be a terrorist and do things that terroritsts do. Look at the Falangists in lebanon and other parts of the world.


The Falangists are the ones who would launch terror attacks inside of 'islamdom'. They're like fasco-catholics or somesuch.

I think that you got it a little bit mixed-up: while it's sure that Opus Dei is a fundamentalist religious organization within the Catholic Church, they are surely no terrorists. While they have a number of "houses" in the US, their headquarters are in Rome, like most other Catholic organizations. They are particulary strong in Spain and Italy, but their numbers are growing worldwide. Opus Dei was founded by Spanish priest Father Jos� Escriv� de Ballaguer (recently made saint by Pope John Paul II) and is a very elitarian organization. While there are a number of priests acting as "spiritual guides" and as administrators, the bulk of Opus Dei is made up by lay members. While nothing (theoretically) prevents a commoner from joining the Opus Dei, they prefer to recruit their members among the upper strata of the societies: affluent lawyers and doctors, renown university professors, wealthy shop-owners. It's this elitarian attitude that's proving to be the winning ace up the Opus Dei's sleeve. It's like some kind of "penitents meet the Rotary Club". You are right in pointing out that their discipline is very strict, but all of these people joined out of their own free will and, while most of them spend short spells in the Order's houses, they live and pray in their own houses, meeting regulary with their "spiritual guides" in their area. What makes OD really scary is both its members' fanatical attitude and its huge political weight. They are the ones helping out the Spanish Church's fight against Zapatero's lay reforms (gay marriage, no religion in school, substitute tax-exempt offers to the current state subsidies, etc) and the ones controlling Italy's government. While they are no terrorists, they are not the kind of people I'd like to run my own country.

ok, i don't know much about opus dei, but i will say this, usually, groups or individuals that do "self-mutilation," "self-flagilation," etc. are only concerned with their personal relationship with whatever is causing them to act that way. they are not concerned with the outside world and especially, with other people's religious practises and are probably the least likely candidate for any sort of christian fundamentalist terrorism.

Originally posted by Alias Jones
They believe in strict ritualistic behavior including corporal mortification ( beating and causing pain to oneself ). The use cilces which are basiaclly barbed wire strapped around the thigh that they tighten to cause pain to remind them of Christs suffering. They also use a " discipline " whic is a whip that they whack themselves with.

Are there any members of Opus Dei that visit this website?

My best friend is Opus Dei, as well as other friends.
I'm Third Order Carmelite.
What you wrote about Opus Dei is silly.
(most things written about Opus Dei here are silly)
Attacking Mecca??? BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYOND SILLY!

ATTN - Anti-Opus Dei people - Go for a walk and get some fresh air.
Clear the conspiracies from your noodle and relax.

I am Roman Catholic, I do not always agree with, nor I do agree with all religions on some view points. As for Opus Dei, I do not belong to. This must be another branch off of Catholics, like Lutherans. I never heard of this group, may be I am to poor.......LOL
I do not believe in whips, or that what is like to feel what Christ did. That is weird.

[edit on 15-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

[edit on 15-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

I posted this already on another Thread - Mind you it is JUST A THEORY - but in my Mind not beyond the Lunacy of Catholic Facism:

Opus Dei is tied to CIA (Hence BUSH MAFIA) -> Pulled off 9/11 (The
*U.S. Economy was already Totaled before this anyhow*) -> Blamed it on the Moslems - hence
"Al-Queada" (Which was easy since they Control ALL the NEWS MEDIA in this Country - FOX News &
NBC News & CNN & Time & Newsweek & U.S. News & World Report & Washington Post & so on + there are PLENTY of ACTUAL Islamic Extremist Terrorist Groups in Existence)

-> Used it as a Distraction & an Excuse to Launch a Modern CRUSADE = the "WAR on TERROR" - Which people believed right away because of Ingrained Racial & Religious Bias/Prejudice. As soon as any
REAL Moslem Extremist Terrorist is Captured they throw it right in the front of the News - hey everyone we caught another "Al-Queada" Terrorist - see what a great job we are doing - Just give us & Israel Cart Blanche to Kill any Arab we want to - You like to keep that OIL flowing too don't you?

I think the Illusion Really Broke down when Bush had to Admit that IRAQ didn't Play a Role in 9/11 (an attack on the U.S.) - although the Right Wingers always bring up how They supported Palestinian Suicide Bombers (Maybe we should start calling ourselves the United States of ISRAEL - ot atleast make ISRAEL the 51st State & IRAQ the 52nd State Respectively).

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

It that a fact ? I was under the impression that American christianity was more protestant leaning than catholic ????

MEanwhile, this remains a classic read about what happens if a bunch of influential people start their own orders:

www.atheists.org...


[edit on 1-2-2005 by Countermeasures]