the most powerful alliance, Russia-China

As we have seen lately president putin is taking russia back on the communist path. He has taken over russias media and replaced it with state controlled media. The state controlled company which is also a monopoly Gazprom is now a monopoly and is expanding. While bill clinton was president and was expanding nato he privelty talked about building a land bridge to ukraine (by expanding NATO) so the west would be able to limit russian aggresion into the Ukraine. The ukrainian presidentail candiate MR. Yushchenko was poisned by a poison by a poison only available to the CIA and KGB and because the only people who would benifit from Yushchenko dying is the KGB that makes them the most likely suspect. Also russia testing a new nuclear missle which makes one wonder if they are seroius about disarming. I beleive taht russia is headed back to its communist or at least socialist days. In 2001 Igor Ivanov the russian forien minister said:We are set to step up bilateral contacts in all areas. after meeting with the chinese embassadors Russia recently held military training excersises with china and has also promised to increase trade. If russia and china ally they wil control 1.3 billion people, the world largest army, and a massive nuclear arrsenal. Russian and chinese military reserch could wield the most powerful weopons ever created. Imagine merging the russian mig 1.44 and the chinse J-10. IN conclusion a russsian chinese allaince would be the most powerful ever.

Forgive my spelling

[edit on 4-1-2005 by bushfriend]

yes this would be a very massive and scary army. IMO this is one of the only alliances that could bring down the U.S.

P.S.- by 1.3 billion people i think you meant that is how many people would be in the armed services, because china alona has about 1.4 billion people in it. Correct me if 'm wrong. Thanks.

Peace~Smurf

lol

i think chinas army is 10 million strong with maybe 10million reserves
russias is around a million or perhaps 2 million

that hardly amounts to a billion

if we combine their entire populations its like 1.4 billion plus 300 million so thats around 1.8 or so billion give or take a few

anyhow, even if they formed a Formal Strategic Alliance; i wholeheartedly believe that it still wouldnt compare to the NATO and ANZAC alliances

do you truely believe Russia and China can take on the whole world by themselves???

USA + Brit +Canada France Germany Spain Turkey Italy Greece Netherlands Norway Belgium Poland and the rest of NATO + Australia Japan S Korea Taiwan Indonesia
and everyone knows that India will fight agianst China
heck in this particular scenario we may even be able to convince pakistan to mount up on our side along with the indians agianst the Russo-Chinese alliance
im sure this massive western alliance could convince alot of other nations like Brazil Argentina Mexico Egypt Israel Iraq Afgani South Africa Nigeria maybe even Thailand an Cambodia to join in on our sides in the name of "peace and freedom"

so basically Russo-Chinese alliance is big and bad and all
but im afraid the World Coalition that would result from their agression
could quickly defeat them

so Russo-Chinese alliance wont work in the end
they will lose

and i think everyone OVERestimates their technological capacity greatly
just because the su30 or su37 or mig31 are nice jets
they just arent Rich enough to afford the state of the art weaponry the usa purchases daily

remember? thats why West beat Russia in Cold war
the West "Outspent " them into an economic collapse

remember in the vietnam war or korean war? vietnam or north korea used Communist supplied weaponry
because the commies wanted to know how well their weaponry would perform agianst american weaponry

what was the kill ratio of vietnam war agian?
20 to 1
not very good odds for the Russo-chinese alliance.....

even if they bring their 20million man strong military agianst the Western-Pacific alliance of roughly 5 to 10million man strong military

the pure technological advantage of the west-pacific alliance would easily trash the aging russo-chinese militarys

so in conclusion
i think the russo-chinese alliance doesnt have a single chance in a Conventional War

of course in the event of nuclear -chemical-biological war
we ALL die....

but ya its fun to talk about that stuff
good thread

At the rate they've been growing for the last decade or so, in 25 years China's GNP (gross national product) will be equal to that of the U.S. By 2050-2060, their per-capita income will equal that of the U.S. Let's hope that as the strongest and richest country in the world they don't adopt GWB's current 'pre-emptive strike' policy. Also, at current growth rates, India will be the 2nd strongest country in the world by about mid-century.

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Senator]

sorry about the population error i was looking in my ol' 1999 world encyclopedia. That makes them even more powerful then i thought.

How does this tie into the NWO?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
lol

i think chinas army is 10 million strong with maybe 10million reserves
russias is around a million or perhaps 2 million

that hardly amounts to a billion

if we combine their entire populations its like 1.4 billion plus 300 million so thats around 1.8 or so billion give or take a few

anyhow, even if they formed a Formal Strategic Alliance; i wholeheartedly believe that it still wouldnt compare to the NATO and ANZAC alliances

do you truely believe Russia and China can take on the whole world by themselves???

USA + Brit +Canada France Germany Spain Turkey Italy Greece Netherlands Norway Belgium Poland and the rest of NATO + Australia Japan S Korea Taiwan Indonesia
and everyone knows that India will fight agianst China
heck in this particular scenario we may even be able to convince pakistan to mount up on our side along with the indians agianst the Russo-Chinese alliance
im sure this massive western alliance could convince alot of other nations like Brazil Argentina Mexico Egypt Israel Iraq Afgani South Africa Nigeria maybe even Thailand an Cambodia to join in on our sides in the name of "peace and freedom"

so basically Russo-Chinese alliance is big and bad and all
but im afraid the World Coalition that would result from their agression
could quickly defeat them

so Russo-Chinese alliance wont work in the end
they will lose

and i think everyone OVERestimates their technological capacity greatly
just because the su30 or su37 or mig31 are nice jets
they just arent Rich enough to afford the state of the art weaponry the usa purchases daily

remember? thats why West beat Russia in Cold war
the West "Outspent " them into an economic collapse

remember in the vietnam war or korean war? vietnam or north korea used Communist supplied weaponry
because the commies wanted to know how well their weaponry would perform agianst american weaponry

what was the kill ratio of vietnam war agian?
20 to 1
not very good odds for the Russo-chinese alliance.....

even if they bring their 20million man strong military agianst the Western-Pacific alliance of roughly 5 to 10million man strong military

the pure technological advantage of the west-pacific alliance would easily trash the aging russo-chinese militarys

so in conclusion
i think the russo-chinese alliance doesnt have a single chance in a Conventional War

of course in the event of nuclear -chemical-biological war
we ALL die....

but ya its fun to talk about that stuff
good thread

1.i was talking about there populations not army size. But the chinese

could mobilize a 379 milion army force plus russias potential 39 million and

for comparison assuming that russians and the chinese ally with some

other like minded countries N. korea LIbya, syria, iran,and pakistan they

would have an addtional 27.6 addtional troops.

2.Canada's military is nearly non exitant and assuming russia and chinas

plus friends attack in 2050 europe will have a small and shrinking

population. I think india and pakistan are up for grab because they would

favor the side that would support them against each other.

3. Assuming china recives the bulk of russian military technology and

combine it with the most powerful ecnomy in 2050 they will easily

outspend the US.

4. In nam and korea the communist troops had little or no training and

virtuily non existant air support and still tied in korea and WON IN NAM.

5. I agree all will die in a nuclear war.

In conclusion if the US can knock out iran, syria, and pacify libya and

solves the india- pakistan conflict the west will win. But the cards have not

even been set on the table yet....


[edit on 4-1-2005 by bushfriend]

The communists hardly won in nam, the US casualties was around 50,000 yet the North Koreans lost 1,000,000+. And i doubt china has a trained military of 379 million. The chinese army has down sized twice since the 80's at a total of 1.5 million soldiers. and it is planing to downsize anoither 200,000 by the end of 2005, making the PLA 2.3 million strong, but wouldnt stand up to a more technologically adavnaced western army. in 1999 Russia spent a mere 9,000 on aevery soldier in their 1,000,000 man army. so together they have a military of roughly 3.3 milllion.

and how would one supply a 379 million man army, you simply cant produce the food, ammunition, and equipment.

Supplieing them isn't that hard if your ruthless. Steal as you go. Most succesful large conquest campaigns in history have used that method.

Anyway. They did win in Nam.. do you see US bases there? US political structure? It DOES NOT MATTER that they lost more lives. The point is.. if we loose 1 million compared to their 10 million. Our current military would be all but obliterated. Theirs would have lost under half.

If you have the ability to throw 20times the number of men at your opponent then you can stand to loose 20 times as many also.

And... at the moment China and India are in the middle of basically rewriting their countries ties. The new deal supposedly allows china to supply India with up to date military technology be it theirs or hardware acquired through Russia. It also includes war games between some of their divisions. This doesnt paint the picture that India would surely side with the US/Euro in a war.

Remeber at the moment the we have our hands squarely up Pakistans rear.. we move a finger and Musharraf talks. I'm betting India doesnt like us for that at the moment.

Originally posted by kinglizard
How does this tie into the NWO?

Agreed.
Move this onto the NWO or ill have this thread moved.

Haha, this thread is one of the funniest i've read in quite a while.

You do realise that China only has a standing army of 2.5 million that is being cut and mechnised, so in a couple of decades, it will be around of less then 2 million.

Some of you still seem to live in the Cold War era, perhaps a sign that American propaganda has worked better then the Russians or the Chinese?

I have one thing to say. Against the US, and possibly the EU, this alliance wouldn't stand a chance. And for two reasons.

1. Nuclear warfare leaves no victor.
   
2. China will switch to capatalism within the next half-century or so.
   

And if China goes capatalist then that causes so many problems that Russia would pretty much be on it's own. And personally I think Russia would have a fair chance against just about anybody, except for NATO. With China out of the picture NATO would continue to be the world's strongest alliance.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
And if China goes capatalist then that causes so many problems that Russia would pretty much be on it's own. And personally I think Russia would have a fair chance against just about anybody, except for NATO. With China out of the picture NATO would continue to be the world's strongest alliance.

You mean NATO without "Old Europe"?

The US nuclear arsenal is greater then Russias and Chinas combined.

Chinas economy is at it's peak - it will NOT continue to grow as it has for 25 years.

China will face HUGE economic problems from keeping it's currancy artificially low for so many years.

Besides, NATO could take them both, and as it was said before, if it came to major war, India would be on the side of the US.

In otherwords, they don't stand a chance.

Nevertheless, attempts to add other major Asian powers to this strategic partnership have been problematic. Moscow has tried to woo India into the strategic multipolar relationship by holding out the carrot of access to Russia's military hardware to boost its military capabilities. 17 The problem is that China and India have long been strategic competitors. Russia also has longstanding issues with other Asian countries, such as its dispute with Japan regarding the Northern Territories (Kurile Islands) that the U.S.S.R. occupied in 1945. In addition, Japan is apprehensive about China's bid to dominate East Asia. The task of drawing more countries into this plan may prove very difficult.

China has made it clear that it is interested in creating "pockets of excellence"--local weapons development programs based on foreign technologies; but to do so it must first obtain that foreign technology. The large number of Russian weapons scientists who moved to China over the past decade may be the most dangerous aspect of the Sino-Russian strategic relationship. 18 China was the leading customer of the Russian military-industrial complex in the 1990s. Chinese leaders turned to Russia for weapons systems that were designed to counter the U.S. military in the Cold War. In particular, they have focused on boosting China's missile forces and related space systems as well as air and naval force capabilities.

China is building a modern air force to operate over the East China and South China Seas. In 1993-1997, it acquired 74 SU-27 Flankers and the rights to produce 200 more under a Russian license. 22 These planes are similar to the American F-14s and F-15s. Earlier this year, China acquired 40 SU-30 MKK multi-purpose fourth generation fighter-bombers (a modernized version of the SU-27) as well as the in-flight refueling capability needed to extend the Flanker's range. The Chinese military also purchased a license to produce 250 SU-30 fighters domestically. Altogether, China has bought or is planning to manufacture up to 525 of these combat aircraft. Its air force already has acquired the over-the-horizon targeting capability that may prove crucial in future conflicts, and it is seeking airborne early warning capabilities for wide-area air and naval battle management, most probably by purchasing the Russian A-50 Beriev. 23

source

The China - Russia alliance is born out of mutal self interest and a means to counter balance Americas super power status. China - Russia are unlikely to start a global war they have to much to lose and very little to gain.

remember in the vietnam war or korean war? vietnam or north korea used Communist supplied weaponry
because the commies wanted to know how well their weaponry would perform agianst american weaponry

what was the kill ratio of vietnam war agian?
20 to 1
not very good odds for the Russo-chinese alliance.....

America and its allies were defeated in Vietnam thats proof pure technological advantage dosnt win wars . Insteresting comment about the Anzac alliances history has shown that given proper training, equpiment and leadership you dont mess with Anzac forces.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by ReeVeeR]

reply to post by ReeVeeR

I take it that you've revived this thread because you think the issue is topical?
I'm certainly as concerned as the OP about the revival of Russian power.
But I believe there's a lot of mistrust between Russia and China, and I would not expect them to become friends again easily.



[edit on 12-7-2010 by DISRAELI]