What are your basic RIGHTS, and what should they cost YOU?

Some protesters today say university education is a right and therefore should be free. I disagree. I think it is a privilege. It is also an investment in yourself that (if you invested wisely) will pay off in years to come. Cost is another issue. Plenty of things that are rights are not free. People claim food and water are rights - neither are free. Shelter is supposed to be a right. Not free. Some people even claim, laughingly, that transportation is a right.

I am aware of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the 30 rights it includes. That isn't what I'm getting at. On any given day I can browse threads on here or news articles on various sites that say "We have a right to free groceries" or "Free college is a right!" or even "A car is a right". Those are the types of topics I want to talk about. The physical items that people claim are rights.

SO...what are your basic rights, how much should they cost, who should pay for it, and why?

I ask that if you say something is or is not a right that you state why or why not.

My two cents:
Education - I believe people have a right to learn how to read and write, and perhaps basic math. Beyond that it is a privilege, and in some cases it should cost money. See my opening statement.
Transportation - Not a right unless you're walking. You certainly don't have a right to a car.
Food, water, shelter - I think people have a right to these things but certainly not free. If you think it should be free explain how you implement it. Does everyone get 5 lbs of rice and beans per week? Or do we give each person 21 nutritionally balanced meals that include a variety of ingredients from all food groups to mix things up? What about water? Do you have a right to visit a local well or pond, or do you have a right to bottled water? Do you have a right to purified tap water paid for by a local government? And shelter? Do you get a lean-to made of sticks or do you get a 3 bedroom house with a garage?

Where do rights end and privileges begin?

Well if you think about it, nothing is free. We pay taxes to have these 'free services'. That being said, if we fixed the tax brackets and taxed the rich the way they should be taxed instead of taxing the poor in this country the way we do, then I could get on board with this free college/education. We already pay for k-12th grade, whats another 4 years of schooling.

If they end up going to college then they will hopefully end up in the higher tax bracket and eventually they will pay back the money that was spent on their higher learning. Seems sustainable to me.

a reply to: stolencar18

right to life, liberty, and pizza

One right that is always left off of this type of list is the right to fail.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Some people abuse this right lol.

Our basic rights are to go about our own business unfettered and free from Government interference. We also have the right to protection of our person and property.

If you were to say health care or education were rights I would disagree. Those are entitlements, not rights.

originally posted by: WonOunce
Well if you think about it, nothing is free. We pay taxes to have these 'free services'. That being said, if we fixed the tax brackets and taxed the rich the way they should be taxed instead of taxing the poor in this country the way we do, then I could get on board with this free college/education. We already pay for k-12th grade, whats another 4 years of schooling.

If they end up going to college then they will hopefully end up in the higher tax bracket and eventually they will pay back the money that was spent on their higher learning. Seems sustainable to me.

Interesting...So should people who pay more be entitled to more? (since you're basing it on taxes)
What about people who pay nothing?
What about the rich guy who pays 40% of his income, and the poor guy who pays 5% of his income on taxes? Do they get the same? Or the poor guy who pays 40% and the rich guy who pays 5%? Do they get the same?

A right should be a right regardless of money. I don't think education is, especially not post-secondary.

a reply to: stolencar18

IMO, a tax-funded education (and higher education) are major benefits to the economy and society. I want to live in a society where people are educated.

I would view such a program as an investment that would contribute to a goal of having a workforce able to compete in a capitalistic economy. There aren't a lot of social welfare programs that actually invest our tax dollars -- we mainly throw money at the problem of wealth inequality and create generations of under-educated people dependent on the social welfare system. A tax-funded education is one social welfare program I would support.

a reply to: stolencar18

Life, liberty, right to your property (which includes the food, clothing, shelter that are yours through your efforts), right to defend yourself, right to speech, right to religion.

Basic test: If you were stranded on an island, anything you can have for yourself or provide to yourself is something you have a right to. It generally costs nothing except the effort you put in and it incurs no obligation on anyone else for you to have it.

Anything else is a privilege. You have it only and solely because society agrees to it, and it can be changed on a whim.

Therefore you have the right to learn as you do that on your own, but you do not have a right to be educated as someone else must teach you.

"Rights" make no sense at all without social context. Left alone, what "rights" does the Earth give you? None. Therefore "rights" are a social construct that come out of consensus and depend upon the culture you are in. Yes, some folks have gotten together to make over-reaching statements about what our "rights" should be. If you read those statements your conclusion is that you're entitled to just about everything it's possible to have, from Internet access to "free" speech.

I would suggest that a more restrictive definition of a "right" is one that is inherent with the individual and does not require the work of others to provide to you. In this context you have a "right" to free speech and a "right" to not be discriminated against because of your race, but you do not have a "right" to education because that requires others to work on your behalf and they may not want to. It may be in the best interests of society to provide education, but that doesn't make it your "right" because it requires the enslavement of others.

I was thinking of selling my hunting license on ebay.

It occurs to me you are referring to this student movement.

Breitbart has been documenting the stupidity.

Has it occurred to none of these kids that no one forced them to step on to campus? That they all could have taken trade jobs, saved their money and then stepped on to campus maybe 10 years later? That had they done that, their horrible burden would have been much lightened?

originally posted by: Metallicus
If you were to say health care or education were rights I would disagree. Those are entitlements, not rights.

In the UK they are rights. That pleases me.

*Edit*
It's interesting that the right to free speech is considered more important than a right to healthcare in the US.
I find it strange, but then cultural differences and all that, you get what the people in your country wish for I suppose.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Metallicus
If you were to say health care or education were rights I would disagree. Those are entitlements, not rights.

In the UK they are rights. That pleases me.

*Edit*
It's interesting that the right to free speech is considered more important than a right to healthcare in the US.
I find it strange, but then cultural differences and all that, you get what the people in your country wish for I suppose.

Are they really rights though?
Are they paid for by your taxes or other indirect means, making them entitlements? Or privileges. I don't think they are rights in the true sense of the word.

originally posted by: ketsuko
It occurs to me you are referring to this student movement.

Breitbart has been documenting the stupidity.

Has it occurred to none of these kids that no one forced them to step on to campus? That they all could have taken trade jobs, saved their money and then stepped on to campus maybe 10 years later? That had they done that, their horrible burden would have been much lightened?

Breitbart was the first site I saw for todays protest, and the only site documenting it in so much detail. Other sites also report on the story, but not in the same manner. What caught my eye was the two students holding a "education is a right" sign. For these two, education is a NEED. They need to be educated as to what human rights really are. In no sense of the word is education a right. If it was, that means you have the right to force someone else to teach you something, or produce materials based on their knowledge so you can self-teach. That isn't a right. Forcing that on someone else is exploitation for your own benefit. That is a privilege.

These privileged twits holding the sign are entitled to their own opinion, but that doesn't make it a right.

a reply to: ketsuko

Ha I just noticed an update...one girl with a sign "My only sex life is getting "screwed" by student debt". She used another word this site filters.

So...you signed up for something, agreed to pay what the costs were, but changed your mind and now think it should be free?

I'm going to try that at the local Chev dealer tonight. I need a new Corvette.

There's more...
People comparing "having to pay for college education" to the troubles that women and black people had in civil rights movements. F off lol..
Students blocking traffic on sidewalks and roads. Their imagined "rights" are so important that they can impede the free movement of other people?

These are the people that really grind my gears. It's pure greed and selfishness. Never mind the cost of the millions of dollars of educational facilities (classrooms, labs, gyms, dorms, grounds, libraries, etc). Never mind the fact that people have to work to provide the education. Never mind that they all eagerly agreed to pay for it. Now they just want it free at someone else's cost.

I'd prefer my tax dollars didn't go to paying for university for these babies. University is a right in the same way that driving a new Camaro is a right. You sign on the dotted line, you make the payments, you get the benefit. If you stop, you lose.

Wait...that makes it a privilege...oops.

originally posted by: stolencar18

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Metallicus
If you were to say health care or education were rights I would disagree. Those are entitlements, not rights.

In the UK they are rights. That pleases me.

*Edit*
It's interesting that the right to free speech is considered more important than a right to healthcare in the US.
I find it strange, but then cultural differences and all that, you get what the people in your country wish for I suppose.

Are they really rights though?
Are they paid for by your taxes or other indirect means, making them entitlements? Or privileges. I don't think they are rights in the true sense of the word.

Yes it is.

Diffrent country diffrent values.

Dont like the idea of healthcare being a right? Stay in the USA.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Metallicus

*Edit*
It's interesting that the right to free speech is considered more important than a right to healthcare in the US.
I find it strange, but then cultural differences and all that, you get what the people in your country wish for I suppose.

And it is interesting to me that you would equate the two. Your "right" to free speech does not require anything of anyone else. They are not compelled to listen to you or act upon what you say. It's just that you have the right to express yourself and no one else, theoretically, can throw you in jail because of what you say. Free speech is an INHERENT right in that it originates with you and ends there, too. You can get on your soap box and that's it.

Healthcare may very well be in the best interests of society, but it requires someone else to "fix you if you are broken," as it were. It requires someone else's time and effort to attend to you, or someone else's resources to pay someone to do that. In order for you to demand your "right" to healthcare you must create an enslaved class that is compelled to serve you.

But in theory the health care professional could say, "Screw it. The government is proscribing so many regulations and malpractice insurance is so high that I can no longer afford to stay in the profession, so I'm going to go dig ditches and to hell with you people." And they have the right to do that. And if they all did it, there would be no one to provide your "right" to health care. So where are you going to get it? Is the government going to FORCE people into the healthcare field so you can avail yourself of the right to healthcare? And if they did, would that not be enslavement?

Now the government can certainly incentivize people to enter the field, which is exactly what they do in the US. They say, "We'll pay your very expensive tuition to medical school and subsidize your education if you agree to practice health care for X number of years." The practice is otherwise known as "indentured servitude" and is illegal in any other context. But if a real shortage of doctors happens, so much for your "right" to healthcare. We live in a large enough culture that in theory there will always be those who want to enter the healthcare field as practitioners, but that's not a given. There are any number of small towns and hamlets where there are no doctors in residence, so people have to exercise their "right to transportation" to even get near a doctor.

Nothing about this means that providing healthcare is a "Bad Thing"(tm) And though you seem to think healthcare is NOT a right in the US, it IS "required." And if you don't insure yourself you are fined by the government, and if you really are too poor to insure yourself, the government, indeed, will pick up the tab and insure you do have healthcare. That's what Obamacare is all about.

But is healthcare a "right"? Not if you enslave me to get it it's not.

originally posted by: stolencar18

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Metallicus
If you were to say health care or education were rights I would disagree. Those are entitlements, not rights.

In the UK they are rights. That pleases me.

*Edit*
It's interesting that the right to free speech is considered more important than a right to healthcare in the US.
I find it strange, but then cultural differences and all that, you get what the people in your country wish for I suppose.

Are they really rights though?
Are they paid for by your taxes or other indirect means, making them entitlements? Or privileges. I don't think they are rights in the true sense of the word.

Then you are using a US definition, here, I'll post some UK quotes:
www.nidirect.gov.uk...

When the treaty came into force, every child in the UK has been entitled to over 40 specific rights.
...
the right to education

UK Citizens advice

Right to a GP (local doctor) - Right to hospital treatment - Right to refuse treatment - Right to die

Have a read if your interested but here in the UK Healthcare and education for children is a right, not a privilege.
Maybe you consider rights differently in the US so it's just a semantics thing, perhaps you huys don't consider healthcare as something important regardless of taxes paid or money in the bank, just being a citizen in need.

...again, just a cultural thing, doesn't affect my life