Complaints about atheists.

a reply to: DISRAELI

so an atheist is not going to get into theism without, at some point, an act of trust.

Are you talking about an atheist converting to theism? I'm talking about an atheist arguing against a theist. Apples and oranges. Anyhow, what is this "trust" you speak of? It is still unclear...

My own experience was that the turning-point came when I decided to commit myself to God in trust.

Ah, the ole "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em," right? I'm not knocking you for believing in God - we all believe things to be true which have equally lacking evidence - but I will knock the notion that for an atheist to argue with a theist, the atheist needs to trust God. How does that even make any sense?

a reply to: scorpio84

but I will knock the notion that for an atheist to argue with a theist, the atheist needs to trust God. How does that even make any sense?

Again I repeat, I did not say that. They can carry on the argument as long as they like. My point was that the conclusion was not going to be reached by logic. Either the argument remains inconclusive, or the atheist ends the argument by turning to trust.
I can promise you that no conclusive proof will be made available, so you can shut your ears on that excuse, or you can open them up.

The "trust" I speak of means what trust usually means.
If the word is an obstacle, I really can't help you beyond it.
Just reflect on the fact that all the disbelief reflected on these boards is coming from distrust.

If there were no atheists, noone would turn religious. Atheists have got the arrogance to claim atheism is the end station for humanity. The doctrine says it's the solution to mankind, the enlightenment. We'll see how far they will get.

a reply to: Ladybug201

There is no doctrine for atheism.
I'm still waiting for you to answer my question:

"Can you define "god" for me? Only then can I decide if I believe in it or not. "
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: windword

No, cause I can't define god for you.

a reply to: Ladybug201

If you don't even know what it is, then I can't acknowledge its existence based on your say so. You may believe that god is the sun or a black hole, in which case I'd say that your god does, in fact, exist.

a reply to: windword

When you come up yourself with the idea god can be a sun or a black hole you clearly aren't interested in god. And why decide to believe in god dependent on someone's view on god. Illogic.

a reply to: Ladybug201

I'm not a mind reader, and even if I was, I have desire to read yours.

This is what your said in our OP:

First of all, I don't believe there are people who don't believe in the existence of god. I believe they lie when they say they don't believe god exists. The thing here is they just might not worship him. Big difference.

You can't even define god, but don't believe in people who don't believe in your idea, whatever that may be, of what god supposedly is.

If you don't know how to explain what your idea of god is, then I can't agree with you that it exists.

a reply to: windword

It's not the idea of god which matters, it's god himself.

a reply to: Ladybug201

God is a self? How so?

a reply to: windword

God's a spirit.

a reply to: Ladybug201

So? So am I. Am I god too?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: scorpio84
They can carry on the argument as long as they like. My point was that the conclusion was not going to be reached by logic. Either the argument remains inconclusive, or the atheist ends the argument by turning to trust.
I can promise you that no conclusive proof will be made available, so you can shut your ears on that excuse, or you can open them up.

Until theists meet the burden of proof for their claims there is no good reason to accept them.

Faith in layman's terms is synonymous with trust, but religious faith is believing in something for no good reason.

Just reflect on the fact that all the disbelief reflected on these boards is coming from distrust.

You cannot distrust something you do not think exists.

originally posted by: Ladybug201
a reply to: windword

God's a spirit.

Could you describe or explain what a 'spirit' is?

You may as well have said 'gods a flangulbez' as it makes as much sense....

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Faith in layman's terms is synonymous with trust, but religious faith is believing in something for no good reason.

Believing in something for no good reason is an act of trust.

When I said "Just reflect on the fact that all the disbelief reflected on these boards is coming from distrust", I was actually commenting on conspiracy theory generally. "We don't trust them..." is almost the definition of conspiracy theory, going back to Dallas and Watergate.
If you don't believe in a Biblical God, it's because you don't trust what people offer as reasons for believing in a Biblical God.
Those who do believe in him have, to some degree, suspended their mistrust.
It's a difference of attitude.

a reply to: Ladybug201

Atheists have got the arrogance to claim atheism is the end station for humanity.

Then I am proudly arrogant. I fully believe the 'end state' for humanity is free of religion.

I don't speak for other atheists or other antitheists. I speak for myself.

a reply to: DISRAELI

My point was that the conclusion was not going to be reached by logic.

If logic isn't going to be used, it is not an argument worth having.

Either the argument remains inconclusive, or the atheist ends the argument by turning to trust.

That or the theist stops spitting in the face of observable reality and admits that while there COULD be a god, the likelihood of his/her god is just as probable as unicorns dancing on a faraway planet's rainbow. Then again, infinite universes...

I can promise you that no conclusive proof will be made available,

Yeah, see that's the thing about claims. You have to actually prove them otherwise they are what people often call BS. Theists have the burden of proof, since they claim "God exists." Atheists don't claim "God doesn't exist," but rather "I don't believe you" or "prove it." So if no conclusive proof is available, then it is a hoax.

The "trust" I speak of means what trust usually means.
If the word is an obstacle, I really can't help you beyond it.

If you can't understand a simple question, I can't help you much - but I'll try again. Do you mean the atheist needs to trust in God? You must have forgotten your atheist past if you think that will happen.

Just reflect on the fact that all the disbelief reflected on these boards is coming from distrust.

Disbelief does not come from distrust - it comes from a lack of convincing evidence. Not everyone will take it on face value that there is some Decider that chooses whether or not we burn in Hell for all eternity. Disbelief comes from seeing people of faith say "here, read this book - it has all you need to know" - then finding out that the ENTIRE book is a bunch of garbage.

a reply to: Ladybug201

Well, we've already seen how far theocracies get us.

Christians - Dark Ages
Muslims - Modern times

a reply to: Ladybug201

How do you know God is a man? After all, Jesus is God's only begotten son - so wouldn't pregnancy be more of a woman's thing?

Seriously though, if you aren't going to even tell us what you mean by "god," then you aren't making any sense.

a reply to: Ladybug201

How do you know God is a man? After all, Jesus is God's only begotten son - so wouldn't pregnancy be more of a woman's thing?

Seriously though, if you aren't going to even tell us what you mean by "god," then you aren't making any sense.