Immigration is not a right!

a reply to: deadlyhope

You are willing to have your autonomy and privacy violated to maintain those security measures so that the collective of society feels safer? So are you OK with being constantly tracked with RFID chips? Are you ok with people accessing your personal data and trading it around? This is all in the name of security of the homeland. You shouldn't have any problems with that.

The banner on one of those sources proclaims
"Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
Can you not see how partisan this source is?

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Same response as the other guy.. If I were to migrate, immigrate, or whatever to some other country, I'd fully be supportive of that country being suspicious of me until proven otherwise. This isn't just about one race, it's about immigration and what's happening. It applies to me as well - If I were to go to another country, in the name of being a refugee, I'd be willing to go through any long, tedious process to be welcomed into that nation.

Except, this is not how it goes for refugees. They grab what they can. Hope they have a passport and birth certificates for their entire family, maybe a little money on hand or in an accessible bank and RUN. Once you get there....OMG..there are a lot of other refugees here. It's REALLY chaotic. And things just go downhill form there....

That is one of the many problems in this current alleged "crisis." The term "Refugee" has been expanded well beyond what it really is.

The term "Refugee" historically has meant people, families fleeing their homes for fear that a bomber will drop one on them in the middle of the night, or that they will be slaughtered by soldiers in the street. So they run for their lives.

People "fleeing" to either try to find meaningful work in another land or to take advantage of the new land's welfare state historically does not qualify as a "Refugee."

That being said, anyone that want's to move themselves and their family to a new place to try and build a better life... I tip my hat to them and have all the respect in the world for them. But if someone is going to be a gate-crasher and bust into a new land... I've got an issue with that. Literally ALL first world nations have immigration policies. If someone want's to "bust in"... sorry, except for those who's lives are in imminent danger.... do it the right, proper, legal way.

a reply to: reldra

If you care out your planet, you are its custodian or caretaker. If you don't give a squat and you feel your here on this rock out of divine providence, then you are an inhabitant.

Based on your previous posts, I believe you care.

a reply to: eluryh22

Nobody thinks like that, that's ridiculous. Nobody from Japan expects every Norwegian to just know and accept their social and cultural customs upon arrival. Why apply that logic to the West?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: muse7

I'm not racist, I'm not against one religion... It's this SITUATION I'm against. There's a HUGE amount of muslims in this world - at one point I heard nearly a billion. I am definitely not against all 1 billion people - I am definitely wary of these refugees, though.

Security, scrutiny, processes, checks, questioning, etc is something I think should apply to immigration in general, and even more so in mass immigration situations.

All of this applies to me as well. I fully believe other countries should put me through a tedious and long process if they feel safer doing so, if I were to immigrate, or be a refugee.

Americans were wary of Irish and Chinese people at one time. Said terrible things about them. Made things up. Put signs in shops like 'Irish need not apply'. And most of these people passed checks at Ellis Island and had some paperwork.

What kind of checks are you looking for from Syrians? Some couldn't even grab their ID.

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Same response as the other guy.. If I were to migrate, immigrate, or whatever to some other country, I'd fully be supportive of that country being suspicious of me until proven otherwise. This isn't just about one race, it's about immigration and what's happening. It applies to me as well - If I were to go to another country, in the name of being a refugee, I'd be willing to go through any long, tedious process to be welcomed into that nation.

Except, this is not how it goes for refugees. They grab what they can. Hope they have a passport and birth certificates for their entire family, maybe a little money on hand or in an accessible bank and RUN. Once you get there....OMG..there are a lot of other refugees here. It's REALLY chaotic. And things just go downhill form there....

That is one of the many problems in this current alleged "crisis." The term "Refugee" has been expanded well beyond what it really is.

The term "Refugee" historically has meant people, families fleeing their homes for fear that a bomber will drop one on them in the middle of the night, or that they will be slaughtered by soldiers in the street. So they run for their lives.

People "fleeing" to either try to find meaningful work in another land or to take advantage of the new land's welfare state historically does not qualify as a "Refugee."

That being said, anyone that want's to move themselves and their family to a new place to try and build a better life... I tip my hat to them and have all the respect in the world for them. But if someone is going to be a gate-crasher and bust into a new land... I've got an issue with that. Literally ALL first world nations have immigration policies. If someone want's to "bust in"... sorry, except for those who's lives are in imminent danger.... do it the right, proper, legal way.

You are saying the crisis is not real?

no hope left, molon labe

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

In my own nation where I was born? No, I am not okay with that. That is MASSIVELY different than mass immigration, though.

Not to mention, I'm calling for profiling, questioning, time. Not these measures you are mentioning.

People seem to be making me out to be some radical xenophobe.

I am talking about the mass immigration situation in europe, in the year 2015, mostly by muslims.

Only this situation, this instance, how can I define it more..

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I just did a quick google search, there's hundreds of sources that mention rape - I won't post them all.

I have yet to find any sources saying the contrary

a reply to: deadlyhope

I tried to do a search for the word "muslim" on that page, and it did not come up once. I reiterate - Statistics and links for OTHER nationalities, and other time frames do NOT give insight to this problem. You can't throw a history book at me, or show me crime for other nationalities in other countries and say it applies to this problem, today. It just doesn't make sense.

What are you talking about... No where in your OP does it mention specifically that the target immigrant dempgraphic you were referring to is Muslim. What is the relevance to them being Muslim to begin with? The proof is in the data, if you don't agree with it provide better data for your claims. It seems you just came to open this thread so you could spew your trash in an echo chamber.

Not one person has told me why increased rape crimes are okay. Cry on about xenophobia, the rights of illegal immigrants, etc, that doesn't answer my original premise.

Even if numbers are skewed - Rape only has gone up by a few percent - Why is this okay? Do good families getting into these other countries somehow justify these actions, or make up for them? The whole premise of this thread is that my answer is no, it does not make it okay, and things should be done to lessen these instances.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

My sources, whether you like them or not, mentions muslims raping european girls.

Give me any other source for any other country, time period, type of immigrant, etc.. And it doesn't apply to this mass immigration, and correlated crime increases.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
Not one person has told me why increased rape crimes are okay. Cry on about xenophobia, the rights of illegal immigrants, etc, that doesn't answer my original premise.

Even if numbers are skewed - Rape only has gone up by a few percent - Why is this okay? Do good families getting into these other countries somehow justify these actions, or make up for them? The whole premise of this thread is that my answer is no, it does not make it okay, and things should be done to lessen these instances.

Nobody is going to tell you that crimes by illegal immigrants are okay.

What they will do is say something to the affect of, "The percentages of crimes committed by illegal aliens isn't much different that the percentage of crimes committed by legal residents/citizens." They will never, ever admit that the truth is, if nations would not permit illegal immigration, the number of crimes committed by illegal aliens would be (and should be) exactly ZERO.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: muse7

I'm not racist, I'm not against one religion... It's this SITUATION I'm against. There's a HUGE amount of muslims in this world - at one point I heard nearly a billion. I am definitely not against all 1 billion people - I am definitely wary of these refugees, though.

Security, scrutiny, processes, checks, questioning, etc is something I think should apply to immigration in general, and even more so in mass immigration situations.

All of this applies to me as well. I fully believe other countries should put me through a tedious and long process if they feel safer doing so, if I were to immigrate, or be a refugee.

Americans were wary of Irish and Chinese people at one time. Said terrible things about them. Made things up. Put signs in shops like 'Irish need not apply'. And most of these people passed checks at Ellis Island and had some paperwork.

What kind of checks are you looking for from Syrians? Some couldn't even grab their ID.

Leaving the "muslim" part of the equation out of it for the moment...

I find it remarkable that time and time again people defer back to the Irish and Chinese in the United States.

You do understand that back then, there was no real Welfare State as we have now in the United States and most of Europe, right?

Take the claims of racism out of it for a moment. Can the Western nations afford to take on millions upon millions of welfare recipients?

Hi People,

A reminder to please keep discussions from descending into personal attacks.

Thank you

You're right. Immigration is not a "right," but is IS a "force" that has changed history. Rome "fell" (It didn't, but that's another story) because the German tribes were being pressed by the Mongol Hordes . Displaced, they had nowhere to go to get away from them. Native Americans (who are not "Native" at all) "immigrated" through Siberia in the pursuit of game probably not more than 12-15,000 years ago. And America, the so-called "nation of immigrants" was overwhelmed by an unrelenting tide of European immigration, people who were trying to get away from a variety of negative issues, from persecution to famine. My own ancestors immigrated to Jamestown in the early 1600's, immigrated to Tennessee to get away from it all, then Colorado to get away from it all, then Seattle, and now there's nowhere left to go. Because the frontier is no more. If we could, we'd immigrate to Mars, but (sigh) that seems unlikely.

The point is that "immigration" does not respect national sovereignty and never has for thousands of years. Getting upset over it in terms of "rights" is really a narrow view that does not take into account to reality of the issues involved.

a reply to: deadlyhope

If you feel authorized to restrict peoples movement, then so can I....

I don't want you coming to my town, state or anywhere near me. There's just something about you that I don't trust. I don't know who your are but stay away from our women and girls.
Honor my wishes or suffer the consequences.

How does it feel to be marginalized and despised?