Kalem cosmological argument

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't have to do that. That has nothing to do with this argument.

Sure it does. You are making a case where cause and effect apply outside our universe, so you first need to demonstrate that that holds true before making that assumption. Cause and effect has only been proven inside of our universe. We don't know how things work outside our universe. You can't just assume something is true just because it is inconvenient to figure it out. If you want to prove something, then any assumptions you have (especially ones that you blatantly try to ignore) weaken it.

originally posted by: Thetan
Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
The universe began to exist.
Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.

This is a deductive argument. In this thread you will argue for, or against this argument. I will argue for it.

Without getting into the philosophical aspects of these statements even if you assume there is a cause to the existence of the universe something caused the cause. So you are back to square one. The only possible solution is that everything in the universe has always existed....in one form or another.

So the argument is circular and thus nonsensical.

i think we've now established irrevocably that the KCA is a facile and untenable argument.

was a good discussion op. looking forward to the next one.