Happy Vet Day: Real respect for vets is fighting western neo-imperialism and unjust wars.

Happy Veteran's Day!!

First, I would like to say that this is NOT an anti-veteran thread. I actually work for NYC trying to house low-income veterans in stable housing. I do it all day long. I also know a lot of great people who are vets.

I hold strongly that it is only those who are against the endless wars, covert ops, and global empire building who actually "support the troops," as we refuse to support sending our brothers and sisters to be harmed and to harm in illegitimate wars.

Who are those who devalue potential, current, and former soldiers the most? They are the leaders, pundits, and citizens who support sending those soldiers to wars that are not for freedom nor justice. It can be demonstrated that most of the wars over the past 60 years or so are purely for empire-building, global hegemony, and power.

1) Western foreign policy and wars are NOT for freedom, justice, nor democracy. We have a demonstrable history of engaging in overt or covert ops across the world with the sole purposes of securing power and controlling economics. We have removed democratically elected regimes that are not compliant with horrible iron-fisted dictators who are compliant. We have even helped train and fund death squads in these regimes.

a) The US literally stole Panama from Colombia in order to create the Panama Canal.

www.amazon.com...

b) The US overthrew a democratically elected leader in Guatemala because that leader began to take back land from and curtail the power of American corporations such as United Fruit Company. Then, the US installed an iron-fisted dictator who instituted a US supported genocide for 30 years of the Maya.

From the horse's mouth:
www.cia.gov...

c) The CIA did the same thing in Iran, as well as other places.

2) US wars are NOT for self-defense or "defending our freedoms."

Vietnam had nothing to do with our freedoms nor safety at home. It was a classic proxy war with the USSR.

Syria currently has nothing to do with our freedom nor safeties. We are funding, fueling, training, and arming rebels to overthrow Assad, all in the name of regional hegemony and again curtailing our enemies Iran and Russia. Proxy war.

The Iraq War was completely about power and was an illegal pre-emptive war of aggression. Saddam had nothing to do with 911, as Bush later admitted, and was a former ally. The Iraq War resulted in the deaths of not only thousands of American soldiers but also up to 200,000 Iraqi civilians.
www.iraqbodycount.org...

Bush and all who supported this are responsible for these deaths, not anyone else. If you ask me, him and his ilk belong in prison.

www.youtube.com...

7 countries in five years. This is what it is about, but not limited to these.

www.youtube.com...

3) The Military-industrial complex, using its front people in the media and government, actively lies to the public and military, creating scares and false reasons for war, instead of the real empire-building reasons as briefly outlined above.

www.amazon.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

This is the reason that most veterans and soldiers are off the hook. Most are actively manipulated into service by our leaders and media portrayals of the world.

4) Those who truly "support the troops" are those who fight this foreign policy, the wars, and the propaganda. Anything else is actually the deepest disrespect possible for soldiers and their families.

5) This will be my one rant against vet respect. I chose not to enter the military because I knew that it was being used and abused to achieve global hegemony and empire, not justice. I instead have worked in both domestic and international poverty work, education, community-building, and sustainability, i.e. REAL justice and help for the world.

Do you know who gets all of the education and government perks? Vets, including for jobs I apply for. It bothers me a bit that we celebrate so much those who knowingly or not have supported an evil foreign policy, but then don't celebrate and reward those who work for real justice both domestically and internationally.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

At least New Yorkers talk sense.

Your thread is realistic not like some banal patriotic speech in a field piled with corpses!

Real respect for vets is fighting western neo-imperialism and unjust wars.

Totally agree with that. i support our troops, bring them home.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

At least New Yorkers talk sense.

Your thread is realistic not like some banal patriotic speech in a field piled with corpses!

Thanks. I don't know though, there are a LOT of fake liberals in the Northeast, whom are your standard "I'm all for social justice and helping the poor but BOMB ASSADDDDDDDDDDDD!!"

Also, many New Yorkers (not all) are even less willing to question US policy over the last 14 years or so, because 911 left more of a scar on them being in their hometown. I can understand the why of that to a degree.

originally posted by: intrptr

Real respect for vets is fighting western neo-imperialism and unjust wars.

Totally agree with that. i support our troops, bring them home.

Agreed. And then use all of the monumental money that our current policy requires to invest in well-evidenced constructive activities, such as investments in education, health care, community development, infrastructure, jobs, etc.

Politically I agree with you.

I still support the Vets though, most believe they are fighting
the good fight to preserve freedom or fighting tyranny .

We should pull back for at least a decade and let the world
settle their own problems.

originally posted by: nfflhome
Politically I agree with you.

I still support the Vets though, most believe they are fighting
the good fight to preserve freedom or fighting tyranny .

We should pull back for at least a decade and let the world
settle their own problems.

Right, I support them as people. Note that in my op I stated that they and the rest of the public have been lied to and manipulated into engaging in war.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I hold strongly that it is only those who are against the endless wars, covert ops, and global empire building who actually "support the troops," as we refuse to support sending our brothers and sisters to be harmed and to harm in illegitimate wars.

I think that showing respect also means identifying the politicians who treat injured vets like dog turds when they get back, and try to skin them out of benefits and the capacity to carry on with their lives. Chicken hawks who call them 'takers'. But, as long as a stunned electorate keeps voting them in, nothing changes.

I applaud this post. True support is providing the truth... war is not the answer and never was.

Those who encourage enlistment, are encouraging murder and the perpetuation of negativity.

May the truth shine.

originally posted by: chadderson
I applaud this post. True support is providing the truth... war is not the answer and never was.

Those who encourage enlistment, are encouraging murder and the perpetuation of negativity.

May the truth shine.

Exactly, real support is not supporting sending them to die for unjust wars that aren't for our self defense.

I lost a good friend years ago because I ALWAYS, to young people, rail against anyone joining the armed services.

It was during the IRAQ war when my best friend’s son and I were talking and he mentioned he might join the army to go fight Saddam!


I lit into him like hell with a barrage of reasons that that was a horrible idea and let him know that he was a dam fool for risking his life so Dick Cheney and his ilk could have a bigger yacht.

I haven’t talked to him since.

We were never friends again

But he didn’t join and is still alive

Whether he was serious or not I’m glad I did it if it helped him to NOT go join the army and fight and die or kill for nothing.

Imo, it’s best to always dissuade young people from joining any branch of the US military forces.

Believe me it’s imperative


Another incident is why I do this.


Vietnam era:

As a youth I remember sitting in my room with 4 friends just getting a little high talking crap. One of the friends was a guy by the name of Barry.


About month later:

The same friends in the same spot though without Barry.

I asked one of them where was Barry


They told me he had joined the Army and was killed: (I think I remember being told it was an accident but I'm not sure...but the bottom line he was either killed in action or in training to go to Vietnam.)

I couldn’t believe it; that dam fast!


But that’s how quick and easy you could die when you join the US military service for whatever reason.

To young folks:

DON’T JOIN THE US MILITARY SERVICE

Great OP!

originally posted by: Willtell
I lost a good friend years ago because I ALWAYS, to young people, rail against anyone joining the armed services.

It was during the IRAQ war when my best friend’s son and I were talking and he mentioned he might join the army to go fight Saddam!


I lit into him like hell with a barrage of reasons that that was a horrible idea and let him know that he was a dam fool for risking his life so Dick Cheney and his ilk could have a bigger yacht.

I haven’t talked to him since.

We were never friends again

But he didn’t join and is still alive

Whether he was serious or not I’m glad I did it if it helped him to NOT go join the army and fight and die or kill for nothing.

Imo, it’s best to always dissuade young people from joining an branch of the US military forces.

Believe me it’s imperative


Another incident is why I do this.


Vietnam era:

As a youth I remember sitting in my room with 4 friends just getting a little high talking crap. One of the friends was a guy by the name of Barry.


About month later:

The same friends in the same spot though without Barry.

I asked one of them where was Barry


They told me he had joined the Army and was killed: (I think I remember being told it was an accident but I'm not sure...but the bottom line he was either killed in action or in training to go to Vietnam.)

I couldn’t believe it; that dam fast!


But that’s how quick and easy you could die when you join the US military service for whatever reason.

To young folks:

DON’T JOIN THE US MILITARY SERVICE

Great OP!

I applaud your effort, and I am sorry you lost a friend.

However, the magnitude of evil and possible loss of life or limb for all involved in war makes it a battle worth picking. Telling someone the truth is both just and the highest respect possible, for all involved. If because of their conditioning they cannot handle the truth, it isn't really your fault. It can be sad though.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I hold strongly that it is only those who are against the endless wars, covert ops, and global empire building who actually "support the troops," as we refuse to support sending our brothers and sisters to be harmed and to harm in illegitimate wars.

I think that showing respect also means identifying the politicians who treat injured vets like dog turds when they get back, and try to skin them out of benefits and the capacity to carry on with their lives. Chicken hawks who call them 'takers'. But, as long as a stunned electorate keeps voting them in, nothing changes.

Agreed. You'd think that if the gov really "supported the troops" that they would treat them better.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I agree with what youre doing here.

There are many that will find it disrespectful but I would have to disagree.

ATS is about denying ignorance.

Are we supposed to go along to get along?

In other words, are we supposed to behave like the masses and engage in the brainless mantra of "thanking" the vets for their "service" when its blatantly obvious that the vast majority of our "wars" have been illegal, immoral and nothing more than ventures in war profiteering, about capturing natural resources, taking over strategic geography or fighting the enemies of our "allies"?

I made a similar post in another thread.

It was frowned upon by another ATS member but I cant apologize for standing up for whats morally right and speaking the truth.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I agree with what youre doing here.

There are many that will find it disrespectful but I would have to disagree.

ATS is about denying ignorance.

Are we supposed to go along to get along?

In other words, are we supposed to behave like the masses and engage in the brainless mantra of "thanking" the vets for their "service" when its blatantly obvious that the vast majority of our "wars" have been illegal, immoral and nothing more than ventures in war profiteering, about capturing natural resources, taking over strategic geography or fighting the enemies of our "allies"?

I made a similar post in another thread.

It was frowned upon by another ATS member but I cant apologize for standing up for whats morally right and speaking the truth.

Right, exactly. When we "thank someone for their service" it is based on the concept that those soldiers were serving some kind of just cause, when they are not. In fact, they are serving evil, although most do so unknowingly.

Also, it is completely illogical and in fact manipulative to state that we should not question an unjust foreign policy, one that is causing destruction and mass human rights violations across the globe, because there are people involved in said policy, such as soldiers.

This is like me criticizing the Nazis and Hitler for their crimes and then some idiot saying "SUPPORT THE STORM TROOPERS!!! You can't question Hitler because those poor troops will feel bad!"

It is prima facie ridiculous.

Wow, you truly have zero respect. How about a simple "While I do not agree with how our goverment handles foreign affairs, today is about the Veterans who signed their life away in defense of our country"

No, you had to give a paragraph with a disclosure that you work with Veterans so your not anti-veteran, then insert a 600 word rant about how evil the US is with 'neo-imperialism' and 'unjust wars'

Yes, your thread is not overtly Anti-Veteran, but you are using a holiday designed to celebrate and respect them as a Sabot to launch your Anti-US propaganda and rhetoric. You couldn't wait until tomorrow? Or have posted this yesterday (seems like you've had a lot to say and been thinking about this for a while)

Bad taste, completely disrespectful, even if not directed at Veterans.


I'm not commenting on the point of your argument. While my view is a little less biased, I do agree that the US really needs to just let the Middle East destroy itself and we need to adopt a more isolationist position in the world. I just don't agree with you using Veterans Day as a means to create a thread to advance your message. You wouldn't make a thread on Mexican Independence Day celebrating the people of Mexico then turn around and start telling Mexicans how corrupt their country is, why the hell would you do it with our own VEterans? That is the point I am trying to make here.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: intrptr

Real respect for vets is fighting western neo-imperialism and unjust wars.

Totally agree with that. i support our troops, bring them home.

Agreed. And then use all of the monumental money that our current policy requires to invest in well-evidenced constructive activities, such as investments in education, health care, community development, infrastructure, jobs, etc.

Right. All the stuff thats been overlooked because of war and the gross expenditures to keep it up. Of course, war is profitable for Industry, banks and campaign contributions. The military gets to use shiny things, the construction contracts to rebuild the destruction, the IMF loans. And the politicians remain career officials.

The taxpayers foot the bill, American sons and daughters pay in blood.

originally posted by: chuck258
Wow, you truly have zero respect. How about a simple "While I do not agree with how our goverment handles foreign affairs, today is about the Veterans who signed their life away in defense of our country"

No, you had to give a paragraph with a disclosure that you work with Veterans so your not anti-veteran, then insert a 600 word rant about how evil the US is with 'neo-imperialism' and 'unjust wars'

Yes, your thread is not overtly Anti-Veteran, but you are using a holiday designed to celebrate and respect them as a Sabot to launch your Anti-US propaganda and rhetoric. You couldn't wait until tomorrow? Or have posted this yesterday (seems like you've had a lot to say and been thinking about this for a while)

Bad taste, completely disrespectful, even if not directed at Veterans.


I'm not commenting on the point of your argument. While my view is a little less biased, I do agree that the US really needs to just let the Middle East destroy itself and we need to adopt a more isolationist position in the world. I just don't agree with you using Veterans Day as a means to create a thread to advance your message. You wouldn't make a thread on Mexican Independence Day celebrating the people of Mexico then turn around and start telling Mexicans how corrupt their country is, why the hell would you do it with our own VEterans? That is the point I am trying to make here.

I can't agree with you more! Why did they post this OP on Veteran's Day? They have no reverence or respect for those of us who served the country right or wrong. Anyone with the least bit of consideration for veterans would have never posted this drivel here on this day set aside for those do have died in the defense of this country.

Willtell's buddy Barry must have been magical to join the military, train and get deployed to Vietnam to be killed in a month. Who are you trying to BS here? Sounds like the stuff that you and Barry were smoking must have been really good.

originally posted by: chuck258
Wow, you truly have zero respect. How about a simple "While I do not agree with how our goverment handles foreign affairs, today is about the Veterans who signed their life away in defense of our country"

No, you had to give a paragraph with a disclosure that you work with Veterans so your not anti-veteran, then insert a 600 word rant about how evil the US is with 'neo-imperialism' and 'unjust wars'

Yes, your thread is not overtly Anti-Veteran, but you are using a holiday designed to celebrate and respect them as a Sabot to launch your Anti-US propaganda and rhetoric. You couldn't wait until tomorrow? Or have posted this yesterday (seems like you've had a lot to say and been thinking about this for a while)

Bad taste, completely disrespectful, even if not directed at Veterans.


I'm not commenting on the point of your argument. While my view is a little less biased, I do agree that the US really needs to just let the Middle East destroy itself and we need to adopt a more isolationist position in the world. I just don't agree with you using Veterans Day as a means to create a thread to advance your message. You wouldn't make a thread on Mexican Independence Day celebrating the people of Mexico then turn around and start telling Mexicans how corrupt their country is, why the hell would you do it with our own VEterans? That is the point I am trying to make here.

I laid out very clearly why such policies are the REAL disrespect to veterans and soldiers. They are being used as cannon fodder by the elite, lied to, and then thrown away after they come back.

We are talking about veterans and soldiers because TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!!! What better of a day to discuss how they are being used and abused.

The reason today is appropriate to discuss this is that the government and media parade about celebrating veterans and soldiers, while lying through their teeth and showing their hypocrisy. I think that we won't really get an honest look at all of this until people stop glorifying military service, framing it as "defending our freedoms," and shutting down conversation with such things as "support the troops."

originally posted by: buddah6

originally posted by: chuck258
Wow, you truly have zero respect. How about a simple "While I do not agree with how our goverment handles foreign affairs, today is about the Veterans who signed their life away in defense of our country"

No, you had to give a paragraph with a disclosure that you work with Veterans so your not anti-veteran, then insert a 600 word rant about how evil the US is with 'neo-imperialism' and 'unjust wars'

Yes, your thread is not overtly Anti-Veteran, but you are using a holiday designed to celebrate and respect them as a Sabot to launch your Anti-US propaganda and rhetoric. You couldn't wait until tomorrow? Or have posted this yesterday (seems like you've had a lot to say and been thinking about this for a while)

Bad taste, completely disrespectful, even if not directed at Veterans.


I'm not commenting on the point of your argument. While my view is a little less biased, I do agree that the US really needs to just let the Middle East destroy itself and we need to adopt a more isolationist position in the world. I just don't agree with you using Veterans Day as a means to create a thread to advance your message. You wouldn't make a thread on Mexican Independence Day celebrating the people of Mexico then turn around and start telling Mexicans how corrupt their country is, why the hell would you do it with our own VEterans? That is the point I am trying to make here.

I can't agree with you more! Why did they post this OP on Veteran's Day? They have no reverence or respect for those of us who served the country right or wrong. Anyone with the least bit of consideration for veterans would have never posted this drivel here on this day set aside for those do have died in the defense of this country.

Willtell's buddy Barry must have been magical to join the military, train and get deployed to Vietnam to be killed in a month. Who are you trying to BS here? Sounds like the stuff that you and Barry were smoking must have been really good.

It is demonstrable historically that for a long time now our soldiers have NOT died in "defense of this country," but instead in service to the military-industrial complex and global power.

Those who can't talk about this fact are the real ones who disrespect the troops and their families.

By brushing over the real history, by whitewashing it, and glorifying current military service, all you are doing is ensuring that history repeats itself and more innocent soldiers are lied to and sent to be killed or maimed in un-necessary wars. It is time that soldiers and potential soldiers are told the truth. That, is respect.