GOD is GOD of the Earth not God of the universe...

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Wide-Eyes
According to modern astrononomy, all the galaxies resulted from the same process.
Whatever was responsible for one of them was responsible for all of them.
"Creation" means bringing something into existence in the first place.
Therefore it is impossible to be Creator of one galaxy alone.
If he is Creator, he has to lie behind the Big Bang.

Yes.. but what if the "Creator" gave dominion of certain "environments" to those that are less then HIM?

Perhaps based on what said entity lacked?

originally posted by: Akragon
Yes.. but what if the "Creator" gave dominion of certain "environments" to those that are less then HIM?

In that case the subordinates would not be in a position to say that they had "made" those environments.
The Biblical God unequivocally announces himself as the one who MADE the heavens and the earth.
So he is the Creator of all things, or he does not exist. There is no rational stopping-point between those two positions.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So he is the Creator of all things, or he does not exist. There is no rational stopping-point between those two positions.

If there was an entity that flew around in a "pillar of fire" giving commandments to a certain chosen or appointed people, claiming that "he" created the universe, then he was most certainly a liar.

if your talking about the god of the hebrew bible he is accredited with the creation of heaven and earth and in revelation itis said that he created all things in the universe, and that he will create a new heaven and new earth,

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Akragon
Yes.. but what if the "Creator" gave dominion of certain "environments" to those that are less then HIM?

In that case the subordinates would not be in a position to say that they had "made" those environments.
The Biblical God unequivocally announces himself as the one who MADE the heavens and the earth.
So he is the Creator of all things, or he does not exist. There is no rational stopping-point between those two positions.

Windword pretty much said the same thing I was going to...

Said god proves himself to be a liar on several occasions... mercy is not something this god knows... yet he claims to

a reply to: Akragon
Fine. If he's a liar, then he doesn't exist, so he isn't even "god of the earth" either.
That was my point. Those are the two options.
You accept what the Bible is saying, in which case one is commtted to identifying the Biblical God as the Creator.
Or you discard what the Bible is saying, in which case the question of the Biblical God's sphere of authority doesn't arise.

a reply to: gell1234

Why do people put so much effort into speculating about gods instead of actually learning about how the universe actually works?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: gell1234

Why do people put so much effort into speculating about gods instead of actually learning about how the universe actually works?

because of ego.

after all, if theres a god, you wanna kiss his ass before its too late. so that his ego takes mercy on your ego.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Akragon
Fine. If he's a liar, then he doesn't exist, so he isn't even "god of the earth" either.
That was my point. Those are the two options.
You accept what the Bible is saying, in which case one is commtted to identifying the Biblical God as the Creator.
Or you discard what the Bible is saying, in which case the question of the Biblical God's sphere of authority doesn't arise.

Its actually something I've wrestled with for years...

In my own opinion the biblical god is either an actual entity which manipulated men that didn't know any better... More along the lines of the demiurge... in which case he/she/it is actually the creator god of this world... and claims to be the creator of all... but is not

or it is a creation of man

Im unsure which

in any case keep in mind, both Jesus and Paul say there is a god of this world.... and it ain't the Father

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: gell1234
I've done some thinking and from what I can 'work out' GOD is not GOD of the universe but GOD of the Earth. It makes more sense.
So it would only make sense that on other worlds there will be other GODS.


I hope I don't get replies saying GOD doesn't even exist or there are no other worlds....

What do you think?

Sorry man, but nope. God is the Lord of All Existence. In fact, one of His many titles in the Qur'an is "Lord of the Worlds". And the Ethiopian Orthodox word for "God" is Igzee'abihier/Igziabeher, which literally translates into "Lord of the Universe". (And remember, the Ethiopians made Christianity their official religion before the Romans did & about 1,200 years before the Protestants branched off from the Catholics.)

yea, their books say that, but have you ever considered all of the things those groups were wrong about? What did they actually ever know? They didn't understand weather, germs, cosmology, particle physics, evolution, electricity, engineering, cell structure, medicine, flight, advanced mathematics, chemistry. They had no clue how the world worked and yet you feel like they got their holy books right?

originally posted by: Akragon
in any case keep in mind, both Jesus and Paul say there is a god of this world.... and it ain't the Father

On the other hand, BOTH Jesus and Paul identify the Father with the Lord God of the Old Testament, the one who is also identified as the Creator.
There is no getting away from that. (So Paul's reference to "god of this world" is a not a way of identifying him as creator of the world, and has to be understood some other way).
In other words, you have those two options.
You accept what EVERYBODY in the New Testament takes for granted, that their God is also the God who has been working all the way through the Old Testament.
Or you discard both versions of God.
The halfway-house compromise simply doesn't work.

a reply to: DISRAELI
That isn't necessarily true

All of the NT letters were written by people of the OT religion who believed they found their messiah that the OT books speak of... And the followers of Jesus routinely misunderstood what Jesus was trying to say... its quite possible they only assumed he was talking about this god of the OT when he actually was not... simply because it was the only god they've ever known... And what Jesus spoke about was nothing like the god represented in the OT books and mythologies

I think even Paul recognised it...

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

This passage completely contradicts the personality of the OT god in every possible way

Its also interesting that the writers of the gnostic letters found a need to hide copies of their letters because they were being destroyed by the church along with the people that believed they were the truth as well

a reply to: Akragon
"Misunderstanding" doesn't work as a theory, because it's all there in the direct words of Jesus.
He quoted the commands of the Old Testament as his Father's commands, and the words of the Old Testament God as his Father's words.
He identified Israel as his Father's people.
I've done a thread on this once, is it necessary to spell it out all over again?

The problem is that the nature of the Biblical God is more complex and nuanced than you're willing to recognise at this stage.
You want to oversimplify and break it up into elements, confining this bit to the Old Testament and that bit to the New Testament (which involves ignoring a great deal of what both Testaments are saying).

The relationship between God and his people is a single continuous story from Abraham to Revelation.
That is key to understanding what is happening.
There's no point in trying to convince you of that here and now, because that kind of mental turn-around needs time. Your subconscious can get to work on it.

a reply to: DISRAELI

At this stage? really?

I've been at the same "stage" as you and all the other Christians around the world... Its simply not a logical stance even though I know you believe it is... You choose to see the bible as one book which completely melds together where as I have seen the reality of that belief system... in that IT is not reality

Personally I see my belief system as it is and has been for many years as "moved beyond" a Christian understanding of the bible... You believe its all true, its all "god breathed" as paul put it... I do not...

I believe a lot of what is written was taken from other myths and legends floating around at the time... and that the people of the OT didn't have a clue as to what or who the true God is... THAT is why Jesus came to this planet.... not to die for everyones sins as Paul puts it once again... but to reveal the true God which was not what the people of the old religion were following... A Jealous, wrathful, envious god which is nothing worth worship... or should even be considered a god in any right

This so called god disappears for 400 some odd years... then Jesus arrives on the scene and suddenly God is a merciful creator... just, and loving... Yet Christianity doesn't see the disconnect and does everything possible to try to explain it away...

Its not something you can even attempt to explain to me, because I already know everything you're going to say... I've been hearing it all my life from Christians... And myself explaining it to you is a waste of time as well... pointless, yet I still try, as do you.

IF Christianity follows the Father Jesus speaks about... why do most of the adherents of said religion turn out more like the OT god in the end of their "search"...

Christians don't continue to seek until they find the truth... they believe they already found it, and they set up camp and defend.

And the arguments that come from that camp are usually nonsensical...

Oh, and im not talking about you and your threads... I enjoy your threads and you've gotten many stars and flags for them from me... most times I don't agree with everything you say... but they're still well thought out

a reply to: Akragon

how is it you deride one mans understanding yet can see no fault in your own?

fruit off the same tree from where im standing.

a reply to: TzarChasm

He has his understanding... I have my own...

He is welcome to that understanding, and Im sure I am also welcome to mine as well

what is the issue?

a reply to: gell1234

What if everything is Energy and Energy is Alive?

Then God is The Unity/Connection/Bonding/Love of all things.

(And satan/darkness would be the lack of this understanding - which is why Compasssion "do unto others as you eould have them do unto you." is The Golden Rule taught by Jesus and many other wise beings).

A cell probably wouldn't understand how all of the different individual cells could be apart of an intelligent Whole (the entire body).

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: ElectricFeel
Maybe only us humans feel the need to fight over a god or gods.

because only us humans have the ego to ask "why am i here" and then answer that question with "because im special".

You have this premise totally backwards. God wants to know itself (I SHOULD BE SPECIAL) so creates trillions of beings 'of itself' to explain myself to Itself as the AUO perspective is crucial (DO YOU PERCIEVE ME).

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Akragon

how is it you deride one mans understanding yet can see no fault in your own?

fruit off the same tree from where im standing.

How do you differentiate yourself from the common fray?

Gods created Humanity on Earth.Lets assume these gods have a leader and this leader would be God.
The bible being biblical adaptations of summaria, Minus all the annunaki aliens.
The bible is a Jewish-Roman rendition of assorted theology trimmed to reprisent the scholars and philosophers of that time. Semetic people themselves were immogrants who moved into egypt seeking work. They developed their own religion based on a number of theologies since they came from Summaria/cannan ect. And wrote a lot about these nations because a number of these people lives in these area. All the mystic information copied from previous relics left behind. Ancient egyptian texts inspired the deadsea scrolls which was written after Alexandria burned down. There have been greek texts aquired from the cache in the dead sea caves at kumran. Besides that point. The real creators of humanity or space Gods.
So when the king of the milkyway decides to show up and reset humanity back to square one we will find out. Until then, people keep recording those saphire thrones floating in the sky. In modern times we called flying sheilds/Chariots * UFOs*