Villagers attack orangutan mother and baby trying to escape forest fires in Borneo

a reply to: radarloveguy

All right Folks - before you all go looking for the "great white hunter" to lynch - please get your facts straight.

The cause of the slash and burn in Indonesia is GLOBAL WARMING.

Yup - you heard me!

One of the legs of the platform to fight global warming is to replace fossil fuels with biofuels. Palm oil is a biofuel and Indonesia provides much of the biofuel used in Europe.

In the article - people talk about farmers who are slashing and burning fields to get "government subsidies" and then don't even bother to plant the field.

The government subsidies that they are referring to are CARBON CREDITS given by Europe

www.worldwatch.org...

n an effort to stimulate demand, Indonesia passed biofuel mandates last year that require the country's cars and trucks to include either ethanol or palm-oil biodiesel in their fuel mix.

From 2000-2009, Indonesia supplied more than half of the global palm oil market, eclipsing Malaysia's production in 2006 to become the world leader. Indonesia's palm oil exports increased nearly 11 million tons over the decade, or about 27 percent per year.

This expansion came at an annual expense of some 340,000 hectares of Indonesian countryside, mostly tropical lowland forests. The government plans to establish about 1.4 million hectares of new plantations by 2010, according to the Indonesian Palm Oil Commission. The industry group estimates that more than 7 million hectares of plantations have been established, leaving an additional 24.5 million hectares available for future expansion.

Now biofuels have been shown to be environmentally disasterous. Not only does it lead to deforestration in Indonesia and Malaysia, biofuels are in themselves ineffecient.

It takes a litre and half of fossil fuels to grow and harvest the crop. The biofuels themselves burn less effeciently, creating more air pollution and delivering less bang for the buck then gasoline.

And animals aren't the only ones to suffer!

www.theguardian.com...

Sutopo Puro Nugroho, the spokesperson for the Meteorology, Climatology and Geophysics Agency (BMKG) has acknowledged that for months 43 million people on the two islands have been inhaling toxic fumes. Yet, he admitted, the number of unrecorded cases was likely much higher.

You want to know who is responsible for this tragedy! Look in the mirror! If you drive a vehicle that uses palm oil as biofuel additive - its YOU!

In order to "fight" global warming, governments are looking to mandate that up to 50 % of vehicle fuels be comprised of biofuels.

This problem will only get worse until the people order the governments of the world to stop this "feel good cause we are doing something" program. You may support the fight against global warming but this isn't the action that is going to do it (unless you figure the "haze" from the burning of the forests is preventing sunlight from getting to the earth).

Tired of Control Freaks

Yup, third world people can just act so third worldy sometimes. Sad story but a good reminder that it's not always people in the first world that aren't good stewards of nature. In fact, nowadays the only thing keeping many animal populations intact are the actions of the first world. Elephants, rhinos...etc.

Can you imagine being one of those villagers beating up this orangutan, like they know how to beat 'em up because it happens regularly? People finally put this in the news, but imagine the rest that never makes a headline. Save our wilderness by integrating and understanding.

Humans no longer have respect for other species or their own as they have lost their natural understanding, therefore humans will die soon.

a reply to: radarloveguy

Always had a soft spot for the Orangutans. There something about them. Its a real shame how we treat our close relations..

You would think that people who live in the same area as monkeys would know when a monkey is a threat and when it isnt. Horrible picture. WTF is wrong with people?

This is what will be the downfall of our supposedly superior race. We are so narcissistic and think we are the only species that should be allowed to freely inhabit the earth. Makes me both sick and sad...

You know... the reply's in this thread demonstrate the exact opposite of how they all end "planet cancer, humans sucks, end of the world"

It's emotional but self talk sticks and if there is 2 pages of outrage... well a lot of us aren't idiots.

How about the fact that a "team" got to them? eh pretty cool, when mother nature does it, it's worse and god knows volcanoes will do this in that region periodically, forests do burn like this when nature has it's way, but it's some of us doing things about it now.

I think it will be okay, it'll be different for sure and sometimes stupid, but imagine the first people that had fire, half their family died lol, for sure and everything around them, nobody knew checking out your ding dong with a torch could end badly lol... but they learned

You know.... the Industrial era is going to be remembered as one of if not the worst period in human history but he new era here that is starting has a lot of people being conscious of the globe, automation will help a lot the way we live will evolve the start here isn't pretty but I think it's getting better not worse.

Don't despair, 20 years ago the Orangutan would have died, we aren't planet cancer, we just learn through mistakes unfortunately and yeah the fixing them is a real B, but we do.

a reply to: criticalhit

I wonder how these same people commenting on this thread would react if a full grown mama bear and her cub showed up in their backyard, fleeing from a forest fire?

I find it really amazing that people condemn villagers who simply don't want an orangutan so close to their children but think nothing of being the source of the forest fires that forced this orangutan to flee in the first place.

How dare those villagers defend their children. They are third world people. What makes them think they have any rights at all! They are poor and therefore should be subjected to this horrible air pollution and dangers.

We need that palm oil. Biofuels make first world people feel good! Like eco-warriors, saving the planet and all!

Wow - just Wow!

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
We need that palm oil. Biofuels make first world people feel good! Like eco-warriors, saving the planet and all!

I don't use any biofuels, just fossil fuels so I shall ignore your preaching as it does not apply to me.

Oh, and you ever been to Borneo? I have, pretty piss poor animal rights out there so your bleeding heart about the scared villagers could as easily be a bull# story they claimed when IAR got there to rescue the animal.
You DON'T know anything but as usual you sanctimoniously preach to everyone as if your assertions are fact.

...and again, I don't use any biofuels so your finger of blame cannot be pointed at me, unlucky preacher.

The villagers were just scared... and they didn't kill it.

Bio Fuels "handled right" will in the long run be better for the environment than Oil, let's be real.

The tirade on "people" I think just has to stop, the world changing creates a huge number of problems but there ARE a lot of people trying to play the balancing game.

There WILL be large preserves set aside for most creatures in due course and honestly we seem to just take Extreme sides as Human beings, in this case absolutely wild vs kill them all who cares...

The reality is Earth will be a "society" based world now not a "wild" world and... that's okay if we work to handle it right, there is in the end nothing wrong with our animal friends being part of that "society" if we fight for it and make it happen...

Who would I rather be? An Orangutan loose in nature dying of Parasites or snake bite when i'm 12? Or if done right part of a Village of Orangutan in a 10,000 acre preserve that is monitored and treated by doctors when needed?

That is what we need to work for (please don't conjure images of traditional 20th century zoos those are jails) and we are, many of us... YES the wild will be rare on our planet, but our job as caretaker can improve leaps and bounds and "wild" isn't actually perfect by any means, we can not only not destroy life we can improve it vastly. The human as planet cancer thing is disturbing and not true, some people suck some don't it's up to us to act to make it better

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Well, according to actual instances of such bears, we are just as likely to shoot them as anything (including their cubs).

My suggestion would be to just sit back and be entertained by the false feelings of superiority. I actually wonder if, as a species, we go through cycles of technological growth accompanied by social/cultural stagnation that leads to our destruction. Over and over..

Maybe we will get it right one of these times, but I doubt its this current cycle.

There are so many ways this could have gone "better." Likewise, so many ways it could have been worse.

a reply to: grainofsand

EVERYONE uses biofuels!

In Europe its the law that all fuel must be at least 10 % biofuels!

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

I drive a petrol engined vehicle in the UK, at present UK law provides that depending on the size of the supplier it may contain an added 0% to 5% mix of bio-ethanol. The UK government states this about bio-ethanol additives in UK petrol:
jncc.defra.gov.uk...

Bioethanol comes almost entirely from two sources - Brazil (80%) and
domestic (19%).

So, 1% of bio-ethanol in UK petrol is from other sources, but there is no guarantee that there is any bio-ethanol in the fuel I top up at the pumps.
www.theaa.com...

This doesn’t mean that all fuel actually contains 5% biofuel, only that it may contain anywhere between none and 5%.

Yep, your line that EVERYONE uses it is an assumption not based on fact, but opinion.
And your sanctimonious preaching that UK drivers are causing all the problems with palm oil production in Borneo is just typical sensationalist drama as I expect from your good self.

...as I said, I've been to Borneo and I saw terrible animal rights as normal, so you DON'T know that the villagers weren't just making up a load of lies when the animal rescue team turned up. But that is usual with you, assumptions and assertions presented as facts.

a reply to: grainofsand

Sanctimonius!

What a laugh. From people who rush to emotional judgement over one orangutan and the villagers who were probably trying to protect themselves and their children?

None of you care WHY the oranguatan had to flee a wild fire! None of you care that its the result of Carbon Credits. None of you care about the remaining animals who are being pushed out of their natural habitat?

So I am making this all up? The links I provided mean nothing?

Biofuel Mandates Around the World!

www.biofuelsdigest.com...

The EU currently has a 5.75 percent mandate directive in place, and was scheduled to move to 10 percent by 2020. But in September 2013, we reported that the European Parliament voted to cap first generation ethanol consumption at 6% of fuel demand by 2020 rather than the 10% originally mandated by the Renewable Energy Directive. The vote passed with 356 votes in favor, 327 against and 14 abstentions. Tripartite negotiations with the Council of 28 member states and the European Commission are taking place later in the year to achieve a final rule.

The biggest mandate news of the year worldwide was the Italian government’s decision in October to create a 0.6% advanced biofuels blending mandate by 2018, the first in Europe to set up such a policy to boost demand for next generation fuels. That figure will increase to 1% by 2022. Beta Renewables produces 75 million liters per year at its facility in Crescentino and the country expects three more cellulosic ethanol plants to come online in southern Italy during the next year.

Last week, we reported that France’s national oil body UFIP has agreed to increase the biodiesel blending mandate to 8% from the current 7%, with the official publication expected before the year’s end. It warned, however, that going above 7% may void some car manufacture warranties by going above the EU-wide approved 7% level.

In October we reported that in the UK, biofuel use in transport reached 4% of the fuel supply during the second quarter of 2014, but ethanol has reached 4.5% in the past. Ethanol blending is capped at 4.75%. The Renewable Energy Association is strongly pushing for E10 blends to help the country achieve the 10% biofuel mandate set by the EU for 2020.

Its not the villager's who are causing the problem!

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Thank fully there are people who think with their heads and not their emotions!

The EU's scheme for certifying biofuels as sustainable requires them to emit 35% less CO2 than regular fuel, increasing to 60% by 2018, making palm oil, soy bean, rapeseed and sunflower looking all but dead.

Palm oil biodiesel also received another blow on Friday, with the US Environmental Protection Agency suggesting it fails to meet the US requirement of emitting at least 20% less carbon than diesel from crude oil.

Robbie Blake, biofuels campaigner, at Friends of the Earth Europe, told me: "It's getting quite indisputable that the use of soy or palm oil to fuel our cars is even dirtier than conventional fossil fuels. Forests in Asia and South America are being destroyed by the expansion of plantations to meet the European market. It's a delusion for politicians to think that biodiesel will solve climate change."

The European Union's target for 10% of all transport fuels to be biofuels by 2020 has been described as "unethical" because the production of some types violates human rights and damages the environment. But the same researchers described do nothing to find alternative to the fossil fuels that currently power transport as "immoral".

So the difficult task of distinguishing good and bad biofuels remains essential, as does the research of even more promising technologies, such as algae and seaweed.

Tired of Control Freaks