Defining a "moderate Muslim,"or refuting it.

President Obama has repeatably used the term "moderate Muslim(s)," when discussing the United State's involvement in the Middle East. The United State's government has never released an official definition of what a "moderate Muslim" is. In this thread you will attempt to define the term "moderate Muslim." Or, if you'd like, you can assert that there is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim," and argue from that viewpoint.

I'm sure this will be a reasonable discussion.

A moderate Muslim is simply someone who wants a progressive society that takes it's ethical cues from Islam.

Progressive to them might not seem progressive by our standards, but it certainly doesn't mean terrorism or stoning women to death. It probably doesn't even mean Sharia.

There are plenty of moderate Muslims.

My best friend is a Muslim and I'm an atheist. You just won't see them on the Daily Fail, Fox News and you sure as heck won't hear Alex Jones talk about them

A moderate Muslim is one who is several generations deep in western civilization Both familiar and non hostile to our culture and or sleeper cells portraying such characteristics waiting the call to activate...

a reply to: Thetan

I'm sure I've replied to a similar question on ATS in depth but to define a "moderate' muslim I would have to use the terminology = 'fence sitter'. Bets each way on this.

Sit and wait to see whose winning.

My thoughts,

Bally.

a reply to: Thetan

A little something from a fully vetted Moderate who even had achieved the rank of Captain and was also a trainer.. Guess he was having a bad day and just decided to "Off" everyone near by.

JORDAN: -- A gunman has killed five people at a police training facility in Jordan before being shot dead by security forces.

The country’s embassy in Washington says those killed were two American instructors, a South African, and two Jordanians.

According to a security source the gunman was a senior co-trainer with the rank of captain.

His motive is not known.

ntry.

youtu.be...

newsletter.thaivisa.com...

a reply to: Thetan

A moderate Muslim is the same as a moderate Christian.

Those religious people that don't adhere strictly to the entirety of their scripture.

Either through subjective interpretation [some is allegorical, some is literal], or fear of the modern consequence of adhering to the whole of scripture literally [being imprisoned for killing non-believers].

I've just spent 5 days in an NHS hospital in the uk, with plenty of moderate Muslims helping out, either as porterstaff the pharmacist and the guys serving tea and coffees, just normal people working hard, being helpful and caring. Millions of people like this all over the world.

I fear this thread will devolve into Muslim apologist posts, and not address the OP question of defining what a moderate Muslim is.

This is an article discussing the subject. Ten reasons why moderate muslims are not the answer:

libertygb.org.uk...

Quite interestingly:

"A poll in 2006 found that 40% of UK Muslims want Sharia in Britain. A 2010 survey of British Muslim students echoed that result (and almost one-third of them thought that killing in the name of Islam was justified)."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

www.theguardian.com...

www.rt.com...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Who can forget the heartwrenching photo of the father of one of the school girls who went to Syria this year. When he sat with teddy bear in hand begging for his daughter to return and blamed the Police for everything. Said he couldn't understand how she had become radicalised I would have said he was a moderate:

www.bbc.co.uk...

But then we find out he isn't a moderate but went on many demonstrations:

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk...

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
I fear this thread will devolve into Muslim apologist posts, and not address the OP question of defining what a moderate Muslim is.

What's a moderate Christian. At the end of the day, the moderates of all religions have created the taboo of criticising all religions. As an atheist in the name of God. I tend to think all religions should be open to criticism and ridicule. No belief system should be untouchable. Moderates have created that taboo in all religion.

A good video by Sam Harris on the dangers of religious moderation

a reply to: Thetan

There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim when you look at the Key Tenets of Sharia - which is something all muslims wish to have installed in the West:

Islam governs, like Judaism (from which Islam evolved and has some quietly kept but similar teachings) one's whole way of life and belief including also one's politics.

I hope people read this and see the huge chasm between Western life and islamic life they are totally incompatible because there is no middle ground.

This is what Muslims - moderate - but still muslims believe in:

Abrogation (Al-mansukh wa al-nasikh)- chronologically the earlier verses are more moderate but importantly the later ones which now apply allow for a far more violent attitude to be acceptable.

Adultery (Zina) - punishable by lashing or stoning to death.

Apostasy (Irtidad or Ridda)- establishes that apostates - any muslim who rejects their religion or leaves it, are to be killed wherever they are found.

Democracy (big one this) Any system of man-made law is considered illicit under Islamic Law Sharia and democracy can never co-exist in harmony.

Female Genital Mutilation

Gender inequality - e.g. women are inferior to men which affects their testimony in law, inheritance, they may be beaten, marital rape is fine. A woman may not travel outside the house without permission of a male and must be accompanied if she does. If she is raped she must provide 4 witnesses. If she doesn't she is considered to have had illicit sex (stoning if married)

Rape is only considered a 'damage' even if it takes a girl's virginity so a fixed little sum has to be paid and there is no punishment - unless the rapist is broke.

A Woman gives up her children from her first marriage if she divorces

Honour killings OK No legal charge for killing his child or grandchild.

Hudud Punishments - methods of execution - crucifixion, amputation, flogging and stoning for: adultery, homosexualty, killing (without right), theft and spreading mischief in the land are all OK.

Islamic supremacy - Islam is superior to every other culture, faith, government and society and Allah says to conquer and dominate the lot.

Lying is permissible for a muslim especially to non-muslims to safeguard himself personally and islam.

Charity (Zakat) - (there is a list of recipients and may only be given to muslims never to non muslims) However worth mentioning is *** this includes a mandatory tax which they are required pay in order to be given to those engaged in Jihadists who are among the authorized recipients *** something most in the west didn't know I suspect.

Underage marriage is permitted to prepubescent girls and its and consummation may take place when the girl is aged 8 or 9.

I will not put any more because this whole subject makes me feel sick and disgusted. But all muslims have to carry out Sharia - those that are getting away without doing so are only fine till along comes the mosque bullies and these people will follow sharia because they are muslim.

There is no such thing as a moderate muslim - you are either muslim and you believe it and live its way or you are not - again if you leave you can be killed.

The thing that is slyly hidden so well is that its OK to lie to non muslims and the support to jihadists - something easy to lie about I suspect as well as claiming the terrorist is 'such a good boy" along with the insincere hand-wringing once you get to know more about islam and how it works. We have been pathetically kept by our government in the dark over this especially in the West.

a reply to: Shiloh7

While the West believes:

Prostitution is fine and it is ok to go to Bangkok (the 2nd syllable of that word always gets me for reasons obvious) and you know what and you will not be punished for it.

it is ok to cause mass torment, war and abuse the rest of the world as though they are goyim (very worst aspect of post Christ Judaism (not the original Judaism).

It is ok to slaughter other states' natural assets for sport.

It is ok to keep your own in dire poverty with no escape just because exploitative capitalism makes and keeps you rich.

It is ok if the establishment abuse children (has the British public bothered to mutiny over this? NO!)

It is ok to do horrific experiments on your own populace in the interests of science and security.

...I can think of many more be assured.

Dear Shiloh it is the pot calling the kettle black. That is why I will no longer criticise on this basis. It is throwing a stone when we ourselves are not without a sin similar in nature.

originally posted by: Thetan
In this thread you will attempt to define the term "moderate Muslim.

Urm, okay, the Muslim guys who own my local corner shop and sell me alcohol seem pretty moderate to me.
The Muslim doctor who sewed me back together last time I was in the emergency room seemed pretty moderate as well.
Aside from on MSM and digital media I can't say I've ever seen a Muslim who is an extremist, but I do live in a region of the UK which ranges from 95% to 99% white/Christian/no-faith folk so I guess my experience would be different in say Rochdale, Bradford, or inner London etc.

a reply to: Thetan

Moderate Muslim - Someone who follows Islam by ignoring the bad things (aggression, murder, rape, slavery, child brides, etc.), and focusing on the good things (compassion, equality, love, etc.). Someone who basically interprets the religion the way he see fit, not as it was intended.

a reply to: Thetan

Radical and moderate muslims have the same ideologies and beliefs; kill all non-believers, rape their women and the implementation of shria law.

The only difference is the timeline. Radicals have already started, while 'moderates' show their true colors more and more everyday.

a reply to: MaxMech

Sounds similar to moderate Christians who ignore the horrible stuff in the Old Testament?

Lol this thread.


Hi ! Muslim here .

Their are about roughly 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

A small percentage make up "non moderates "?

Yet MSM and people love throwing the word around as if it defines what type of muslim one is.

Their is simply a Muslim who adhears to the quran and sunna ( such as my self ) and their are of course extremist , radicals . what ever you wish to call them.

But my point being the majority of Muslims follow the quran and sunna and don't subscribe to extremist ideology. Is this what your refering to as moderate ?

The term is not really clear to me to be honest .

For example . I am what you would call a salafi . i follow the more orthodox form of Islam or strict /conservitive. For me and my reasearch this is the most purest form of islam.

I grow my beard , I pray 5 times , go to friday prayer . etc etc .

Yet i respect and follow the US constitution. I am a law abiding citizen a gun owner . i love my neighbors , I respect everyone! Every religion ! I understand love and compassion ,honor . all these things taught to me by my religion.

Is this what you mean by "moderate"? Because really the majority of muslims are just like me.


We should not really be asking "who's moderate " but rather what is extremist ideology and why is it the new face of Islam?


Kap

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: MaxMech

Sounds similar to moderate Christians who ignore the horrible stuff in the Old Testament?

The irony is that Islam has it's origins in the old testament. All the prophets in the old testament, even JC at the end, are prophets in Islam. The old testament has all manner of punishments. Presumably if a moderate muslim is waiting to enact the fire and brimstone stuff then so is every christian, by the exact same logic. However, this has nothing to do with logic, this is all about some people who want de-humanise all muslims so they can all be torched because they hate them and believe they deserve it. It's 1930's Germany repeating itself, just change the words "jew" for "muslim" and hey presto all the narratives match.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

What's a moderate Christian.

I included that in my first post.

At the end of the day, the moderates of all religions have created the taboo of criticising all religions.

Exactly.

I am in agreement with that.

Did I say something that gave you a contrary impression?

I tend to think all religions should be open to criticism and ridicule. No belief system should be untouchable.

Zero disagreement.

*side note: I've literally read all Sam's books and watched all [I think] of his debates. So cheers on that front.