University of Missouri proves racial hypocrisy on Universities

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Are you saying that President Wolfe didn't know what was going on at the university?

President Wolfe is the one who made the statement in question.

He's not to be trusted either?

Well...soldiers who are held prisoner admit to all sorts of things too.

His admission is pure capitulation, in my estimation. That is, unless there are specific incidents that are more specific that "someone" shouting obscenities.

Thats all I want: evidence. The guy lost his job, afterall....im not going to just give blanket support for that.

No one's asking you to that I know of.

Are you saying the President and Chancellor were fired that they didn't resign?

I put the same question to you that I've put to others here: specific events have been described, the general atmosphere of the campus community has been described, and multiple individuals in authority have attested to those facts.

What evidence would satisfy you?

People resign all the time in lieu of firing. In fact, they're often given this option as a bit of a favor.

How can you just dismissively dismiss this ? It happens every day somewhere, often at this level.

If I had to guess, the president was receiving all kinds of grief and threats and knew it wouldn't be worth fighting. Not even worth stating any disagreement on the way out, since he would get the same treatment in the aftermath from angry, petty, vindictive little SOB's. So he cried crocodile tears and agreed with every accusation, and said "good career, time to travel and start a hobby".

But....I can't prove this, so I'll leave it as my opinion and not run around demanding that you agree, because "it's obvious".

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Gryphon66

It may have been supplied...and it may be a poor excuse. Im trying to "catch up" on what is going on here in between tasks at work, and have put in zero effort looking for details. If you would be so kind as to throw a couple of links in the next post or two it certainly would help me share your exposure to information.

You know me, Gryphon...i am anything but unreasonable. Lazy? Maybe. Certainly not having enough spare time to try to participate here. But i want to try. LOL

Of course:

Low hanging fruit from CNN:

African-American students at Missouri have complained of inaction on the part of school leaders in dealing with racism on the overwhelmingly white Columbia campus. Black student leaders have conveyed their displeasure over students openly using racial slurs and other incidents.

Several University of Missouri organizations, including the football team and the student association, had called for Wolfe to step down.

Until Monday, he had presided over the university system, which includes the main University of Missouri campus in Columbia, along with the University of Missouri-St. Louis, University of Missouri-Kansas City and Missouri University of Science and Technology.

Saying he takes "full responsibility for the inaction that has occurred," Wolfe asked that the university community listen to each other's problems and "stop intimidating each other."

"This is not -- I repeat, not -- the way change should come about. Change comes from listening, learning, caring and conversation," he said. "Use my resignation to heal and start talking again."

That is exactly why I said earlier in the thread that I have respect for him, at least in this action. He showed true leadership.

I can link his actual words again admitting the racial problems if you need them.

I do know that you deal fairly and honestly Texan. I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Evidence to some people is a video with collaborating technical expertise to prove the video is authentic, someone they trust standing in the video to confirm they are seeing what they are seeing, a notarized document signed by all in attendance, and Jesus cloak in a American flag, cuz loves the USA!

Maybe then some people will believe it. But like i said earlier, some people will never believe that there is any kind of discrimination, unless it's against the oppressed white male minority. Then all bets are off.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Are you saying that President Wolfe didn't know what was going on at the university?

President Wolfe is the one who made the statement in question.

He's not to be trusted either?

Well...soldiers who are held prisoner admit to all sorts of things too.

His admission is pure capitulation, in my estimation. That is, unless there are specific incidents that are more specific that "someone" shouting obscenities.

Thats all I want: evidence. The guy lost his job, afterall....im not going to just give blanket support for that.

No one's asking you to that I know of.

Are you saying the President and Chancellor were fired that they didn't resign?

I put the same question to you that I've put to others here: specific events have been described, the general atmosphere of the campus community has been described, and multiple individuals in authority have attested to those facts.

What evidence would satisfy you?

People resign all the time in lieu of firing. In fact, they're often given this option as a bit of a favor.

How can you just dismissively dismiss this ? It happens every day somewhere, often at this level.

If I had to guess, the president was receiving all kinds of grief and threats and knew it wouldn't be worth fighting. Not even worth stating any disagreement on the way out, since he would get the same treatment in the aftermath from angry, petty, vindictive little SOB's. So he cried crocodile tears and agreed with every accusation, and said "good career, time to travel and start a hobby".

But....I can't prove this, so I'll leave it as my opinion and not run around demanding that you agree, because "it's obvious".

Dismissively dismiss? How else would I "dismiss" it? LOL

I'm not "dismissing" that he was coerced, because I don't know that he wasn't and I don't know that he was.

I haven't said he was nor said that he wasn't. In fact, I'm sure he was feeling pressure because, well, who wouldn't be?

You're guessing, and that's fine. That's not proof though, is it? That's what you keep asking for.

Until you have other evidence, which is what you keep demanding although evidence has been provided, you're merely choosing not to believe, not to accept the evidence, not to accept the testimony of multiple people.

You seem to have shown what the real issue here is ... these aren't college students that you disagree with, they're "angry, petty, vindictive little SOB's" that have gotten under your skin somehow.

To you, it's personal at this point, ain't it?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: stevieray

I would like to see the same proof that would be needed for me to demand your firing.

I'm pretty sure that you'd ask for more than 4 people who I can get to agree with me.

Okay, what would that proof be?

You're desperately trying to personalize it, but not answering the question.

I've answered you in several ways that a child would have to agree is reasonable. But here, just to stoop to it -

1. Police report with details of what happened, where, when.

2. Photos, sketches, maps of locations, whatever was documented during the reporting of the incidents.

3. Whatever notes / dialogue was recorded, to give veracity that the story is logically offered. Not just random babble.

4. Names of people who can corroborate the individual stories, and ask them for 5 minutes of their time to do so.

If none of this can be found, I have every bit a right to an opinion that it's lies, as you have to claim it's gospel.

Like I said, the bare minimum for somebody demanding your firing or arrest.

Now please, no more annoying "one more level of nonsense".

originally posted by: cenpuppie
a reply to: Gryphon66

Evidence to some people is a video with collaborating technical expertise to prove the video is authentic, someone they trust standing in the video to confirm they are seeing what they are seeing, a notarized document signed by all in attendance, and Jesus cloak in a American flag, cuz loves the USA!

Maybe then some people will believe it. But like i said earlier, some people will never believe that there is any kind of discrimination, unless it's against the oppressed white male minority. Then all bets are off.

I'd love MORE evidence either way, personally.

But then, as President Wolfe said, maybe it's just time to move on.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Are you saying that President Wolfe didn't know what was going on at the university?

President Wolfe is the one who made the statement in question.

He's not to be trusted either?

Well...soldiers who are held prisoner admit to all sorts of things too.

His admission is pure capitulation, in my estimation. That is, unless there are specific incidents that are more specific that "someone" shouting obscenities.

Thats all I want: evidence. The guy lost his job, afterall....im not going to just give blanket support for that.

No one's asking you to that I know of.

Are you saying the President and Chancellor were fired that they didn't resign?

I put the same question to you that I've put to others here: specific events have been described, the general atmosphere of the campus community has been described, and multiple individuals in authority have attested to those facts.

What evidence would satisfy you?

People resign all the time in lieu of firing. In fact, they're often given this option as a bit of a favor.

How can you just dismissively dismiss this ? It happens every day somewhere, often at this level.

If I had to guess, the president was receiving all kinds of grief and threats and knew it wouldn't be worth fighting. Not even worth stating any disagreement on the way out, since he would get the same treatment in the aftermath from angry, petty, vindictive little SOB's. So he cried crocodile tears and agreed with every accusation, and said "good career, time to travel and start a hobby".

But....I can't prove this, so I'll leave it as my opinion and not run around demanding that you agree, because "it's obvious".

Dismissively dismiss? How else would I "dismiss" it? LOL

I'm not "dismissing" that he was coerced, because I don't know that he wasn't and I don't know that he was.

I haven't said he was nor said that he wasn't. In fact, I'm sure he was feeling pressure because, well, who wouldn't be?

You're guessing, and that's fine. That's not proof though, is it? That's what you keep asking for.

Until you have other evidence, which is what you keep demanding although evidence has been provided, you're merely choosing not to believe, not to accept the evidence, not to accept the testimony of multiple people.

You seem to have shown what the real issue here is ... these aren't college students that you disagree with, they're "angry, petty, vindictive little SOB's" that have gotten under your skin somehow.

To you, it's personal at this point, ain't it?

It's funny that you try, and get so close, to "neither of us knows without the proof"....yet you kind of choke up and start shaking, and revert to your partisan BS at the end.

You could have left it at "neither of us knows, it's just two competing opinions". Give it a try, it will be like kicking heroin. Happiness abounds.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: stevieray

I would like to see the same proof that would be needed for me to demand your firing.

I'm pretty sure that you'd ask for more than 4 people who I can get to agree with me.

Okay, what would that proof be?

You're desperately trying to personalize it, but not answering the question.

I've answered you in several ways that a child would have to agree is reasonable. But here, just to stoop to it -

1. Police report with details of what happened, where, when.

2. Photos, sketches, maps of locations, whatever was documented during the reporting of the incidents.

3. Whatever notes / dialogue was recorded, to give veracity that the story is logically offered. Not just random babble.

4. Names of people who can corroborate the individual stories, and ask them for 5 minutes of their time to do so.

If none of this can be found, I have every bit a right to an opinion that it's lies, as you have to claim it's gospel.

Like I said, the bare minimum for somebody demanding your firing or arrest.

Now please, no more annoying "one more level of nonsense".

Ah ha! An answer from you!

Yes, agreed any of that evidence will be interesting to see. Perhaps we can review it together when it's revealed to us!

Thanks for answering the question.

a reply to: stevieray

Perhaps I remind you of an "angry, petty, vindictive little SOB"?

Partisan BS? Did I call you a Democrat or a Republican?

(You do know what partisan means, don't you?)

We'll see what future investigations show us, eh?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: cenpuppie
a reply to: Gryphon66

Evidence to some people is a video with collaborating technical expertise to prove the video is authentic, someone they trust standing in the video to confirm they are seeing what they are seeing, a notarized document signed by all in attendance, and Jesus cloak in a American flag, cuz loves the USA!

Maybe then some people will believe it. But like i said earlier, some people will never believe that there is any kind of discrimination, unless it's against the oppressed white male minority. Then all bets are off.

I'd love MORE evidence either way, personally.

But then, as President Wolfe said, maybe it's just time to move on.

It's definitely the president's prerogative to say "let's just move on after you took my job and wrecked my life for claims that were never proven".

I mean, why not, free country and all that.

Personally, I think it's a bad precedent and bad form. And self-flagellation, which never yields much of anything good.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: stevieray

Perhaps I remind you of an "angry, petty, vindictive little SOB"?

Partisan BS? Did I call you a Democrat or a Republican?

(You do know what partisan means, don't you?)

We'll see what future investigations show us, eh?

Only if you go out looking for lives to wreck for partisan reasons. It was partisan because you characterized my motives, poorly. Please, not the "hawhawhawhaw he don't know wut it mean". That's maybe the worst serial annoyance of them all.

a reply to: stevieray

Partisan doesn't mean "to characterize poorly."

It means: "a strong supporter of a party, cause, or person."

I'm trying to help you in the future so you don't continue misusing a term.

It's a minor thing; don't take it so personally.

Haw.

I just love when white people voice their opinion on what should be considered actual racism..

If you have never dealt with it, move on because you have no idea the effects it has on minorities.

originally posted by: lucifershiningone
I just love when white people voice their opinion on what should be considered actual racism..

If you have never dealt with it, move on because you have no idea the effects it has on minorities.

Sorry to have to tell you this, but racism has NOTHING to do with being a minority.

It can affect anyone.

originally posted by: lucifershiningone
I just love when white people voice their opinion on what should be considered actual racism..

If you have never dealt with it, move on because you have no idea the effects it has on minorities.

Really?

You do know it is entirely possible to be white and minority. Ask a white athlete or someone who has taught in an inner city school as a white.

So because maybe you have dealt with racism once or a few times in your life you know the struggles?

Hmm so you can say you know what it means to have dealt with this daily and all your life..you now understand the struggles?


Excuse me but LMAO!

a reply to: lucifershiningone

So what? I am saying that I do know what it is because I've been in that position before.

I also know it's not nearly as prevalent as people want to think. Simply being in that position alone is not racism or racist, and if you think it is, that says a lot more about you than the company you find yourself in.

But then again, athletes are less likely to let racial prejudices get in the way of their day to day life, especially where teammates are concerned. They tend to judge more on field performance than how a person looks. After all, it's counter productive in the extreme to hold it against one of your relay legs because she happens to have the wrong skin color even though she runs the right split time.

I think we've just found when too much is "too much".
Incredibly absurd behaviors and demands from a group that wasn't even involved in the supposed events that brought about the resignation of the college President.

I thought 9/11 was bad but this looks even worse in the larger picture.
I'd rather deal with crazed religious radicals bent on suicide attacks than these crybullies (thanks for the new word Glinda!)

Well, Gryphon,

This should make you happy. MU is now a police state. If you see or hear something racial, hateful or hurtful, you are invited to call the police who will then refer it to the campus offices for disciplinary action.

Wow. Note the pattern, so familiar now — things start with extremely offensive speech that might actually be punishable (e.g., racial epithets addressed in person to a Missouri student, which apparently is part of what triggered the protests). Add other speech that seems similar but is potentially much broader, and vaguely defined, such as “hateful” speech. Then add other speech that’s even broader, such as “hurtful” speech. Now you’ve covered a vast range of speech on controversial topics.

As the Op-Ed writer notes, most everything on this forum could be grounds for calling the police now in Columbia, MO, because almost everything here is frank discussion that would be considered at least to some degree hurtful to someone.

Now I agree that the police can reasonably ask people to call about things that are less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a crime. If the government wants you to let it know about suspicious behavior that is evidence of, say, a possible planned bombing or shooting (or even theft), it can well cast the net wide, so the police get lots of information and then figure out if a crime (including the conspiracy to commit a crime) has indeed happened. And if the university wants information about speech simply in order to know what’s up and to express its own views about such speech, there is room for that, too (though at some point such reactions by the university might themselves start to unduly deter public debate).

But here there’s not even any claim that they’re just trying to find evidence of crimes, or trying to answer speech with more speech. Here a university is urging students to call the police whenever they hear “hurtful speech,” precisely so the university “can take disciplinary action” against the speakers. This is the new face of the modern university.

So, I wonder ... could someone walking past the protestors on the campus quad feel that what they were saying was hurtful and call the police? What happens then?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Im sorry, Gryphon...but that is pretty much what I hve already heard/seen. it sounds to me like he is trying to save whatever skin he has left while preserving whatever future he may be able to salvage in his future.

Everything he said could be copy/pasted into any other location. "We don't do enough". "We need to come together and communicate". "World peace". Etc, etc, etc.

This just sounds like some SJW's got together and screwed up this dudes career because they were able to get a bit of traction.