White Republicans are revolting: They keep winning elections, and keep getting angrier

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: mapsurfer_
I read the salon article and thought it was poorly constructed but as far as this thread goes. The author is a democrat and the content is provocative to White, Male, Christians saying they are angry because they lost leverage in key areas goes on to say Repub activists blame their own leadership. That's a large demographic and I know many of them are content with blaming Obama administration. Our government would be alot better if we abolished the two party system and we elect politicians based on their platform issues.

The problem is voters are simply lazy and will not investigate each individual candidate. The parties are way to help distinguish the overall philosophy of each candidate. So while I am not a registered Republican, I tend to believe they represent my interest say 75% of the time. There are times that I do vote for Democrats too though, but as a whole, I believe the party doesn't represent the interest important to me.

Personally, I believe voting should be restricted. I believe all voters should be required to pass a basic civics test similar to what we require of immigrants when they become legal citizens.

Christ! It's racist to require a person to have an ID to vote!

Good luck with that!

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So I take it that you will be just fine when the man takes all your funds.

Imposing illegal taxes knowing full well that they go against the constitution is illegal as murdering American citizens with rc helicopters. There is very much illegal activities that bush started and bama continued simply because they had political cover to perform illegal duties without being held accountable. Boner and his replacement have been the ones that directly covered for the crimes.

Impeachment requires personally committing a crime not related to the job. If your office passes illegal legislation that is an issue with the office and the courts force a change. Impeachment is something else entirely.

And that the beautiful thing in politics, when your side is slowly dying out like some dinosaurs, blame everyone else, its the thing to do in 2015.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The reason there is anger in the Republican party is because the libertarian / tea party side is upset with the RINOs who have basically turned in to Democrat lites. If wanting our representatives to adhere to the constitution, reducing government bureaucracy, spending, and involvement in our lives is extremist, then I guess I am an extremist.

Quoted for absolute truth.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

The Constitution isn't small government in nature. It's just the opposite, when a small government was tried with the Articles of Confederation the government collapsed from it's inability to do anything. The next attempt included a significantly expanded amount of federal power.

a reply to: Aazadan

Explain the 10th Amendment, please.

I don't think the GOP is getting soft or full of RINO's ... If you look at Reagan who the GOP venerates as a near-mythical figure in conservative politics, he's nowhere as hard-line as the Tea Party or the modern Libertarian movement. Reagan wouldn't be electable today if he magically time traveled to 2015 and was allowed to run for a third term. If the modern GOP looked at his policies and what he did in his terms as POTUS, he'd be labeled a RINO.

NO, the Republicans aren't going soft -- elements within the GOP are becoming extreme and radicalized. Instead of trying to create their own legitimate 3rd party, they keep trying to co-opt and take over the GOP. In doing this, they are making the rest of the Republican party look pretty moderate by comparison.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Another myth. A moderate Republican a Democrat doesn't make. I would really love to know in detail, exactly what makes a RINO. I'd like to know how on Earth, with a small few exceptions, can a Democrat be considered far Left.

Whenever these questions get asked they are only answered with vagueness.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

Explain the 10th Amendment, please.

The powers delegated to the US government aren't what is outlined in the Bill of Rights, they're what is outlined in the Constitution itself. The Constitution allows the government to tax and spend on whatever programs it likes, provided it doesn't do so in a way that runs contrary to any Amendments.

Specifically, these are the provisions which allow the government to tax and spend on anything it would like.
Article 1 Section 7

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Article 1 Section 8

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't think the GOP is getting soft or full of RINO's ... If you look at Reagan who the GOP venerates as a near-mythical figure in conservative politics, he's nowhere as hard-line as the Tea Party or the modern Libertarian movement. Reagan wouldn't be electable today if he magically time traveled to 2015 and was allowed to run for a third term. If the modern GOP looked at his policies and what he did in his terms as POTUS, he'd be labeled a RINO.

NO, the Republicans aren't going soft -- elements within the GOP are becoming extreme and radicalized. Instead of trying to create their own legitimate 3rd party, they keep trying to co-opt and take over the GOP. In doing this, they are making the rest of the Republican party look pretty moderate by comparison.

Yes, and that it the point I was trying to highlight and discuss in this thread.

The Democrats have some serious issues and we all know that. The list of things I would love to change about that party is too long for me to post, but the Republicans are a different kind of monster altogether.

With the Republicans you have a party that has slowly become more and more extreme in it's agenda and it's approach to governing. If anyone within that party does not mimic the rhetoric or, god forbid, actually wants to work with Democrats to find real solutions, they become sacrificial lambs to remind others that compromise is a non-no. They are labeled RINO's and such.

They are their own worst enemy and will cause the party to become irrelevant soon if they do not stop the extremism. Better yet, perhaps the REAL conservatives will create their own party and leave the rest to wither in the pile of crap they created for themselves.

There's an interesting article from NPR that talks about both the left and right being more polarized than ever.

Keith Poole of the University of Georgia, with his collaborator Howard Rosenthal of New York University, has spent decades charting the ideological shifts and polarization of the political parties in Congress from the 18th century until now to get the view of how the political landscape has changed from 30,000 feet up. What they have found is that the Republican Party is the most conservative it has been a century.

Here's a graphic from the article that graphs the political ideology for over 100 years:

"Ronald Reagan was so successful because he made all these deals with these huge blocks of moderate legislators. That's why he had overwhelming majorities for the 81 tax cut, the 82 tax increase, where they had to go back and adjust the tax bill in 82 and the Social Security fix in 83. Then in 86 you had Simpson Mazzoli, which included amnesty and tax simplification. All that stuff passed with very large majorities. You cannot imagine anything like that happening now. Which is why the country is really in the tank.

NPR

The researcher has a good point, I don't foresee any kind of compromises being made on budgets or spending any time soon by anyone. At this point, if a Democrat wins the WH, we're in for another 4 years of what we've been experiencing right now.

Nothing, gridlock and bickering. If a Democrat wins the WH, we're going to see the GOP swing even harder to the right I think.

a reply to: introvert

I don't think overall as a party they *want* to be more radicalized ... the thing is, that minority of Tea Party and Libertarian folks are tenacious and loud. They're fanatical and will disrupt GOP caucuses and appear to have far more support than they actually do. Just a handful of them can really rock the boat. That's the general strategy for radical minority groups though.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Nothing, gridlock and bickering. If a Democrat wins the WH, we're going to see the GOP swing even harder to the right I think.

If a Democrat wins the WH I think the GOP is going to implode and we end up with 3 parties, which will pretty much guarantee Democrat victories for the next 10 years until they too implode. Oddly enough, due to gerrymandering if such a thing were to happen I still don't think they could take the House, though atleast it would be lost in general elections rather than primaries.

Extreme can only be pushed so far and the American Taliban side of the GOP is on the edge of that right now

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: introvert

I don't think overall as a party they *want* to be more radicalized ... the thing is, that minority of Tea Party and Libertarian folks are tenacious and loud. They're fanatical and will disrupt GOP caucuses and appear to have far more support than they actually do. Just a handful of them can really rock the boat. That's the general strategy for radical minority groups though.

I don't believe that either. Most Republicans, in my opinion, are not much different than most Democrats and Independents. They may disagree in certain areas but for the most part we all just want to be free to live our lives as we see fit and have the opportunity to better ourselves, but at the same time contribute what they have to for the sake of the collective as a whole. (That's not Commie-talk. It's the price we pay to live in civilized society)

But we can't get our representatives to agree on that or work towards goals that assist in those things we do agree on. The extremists are, as you said, the most vocal, shut down any constructive debate on those topics and alienate the people that are willing to compromise.

When I talk about these issues or post a thread criticizing the GOP, it's not because I necessarily disagree with their ideology. In fact, there are some of their stances I wish the Dems would adopt. It's because the nutters are running the party and their way of doing things is a danger to the American political landscape.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

The researcher has a good point, I don't foresee any kind of compromises being made on budgets or spending any time soon by anyone. At this point, if a Democrat wins the WH, we're in for another 4 years of what we've been experiencing right now.

Nothing, gridlock and bickering. If a Democrat wins the WH, we're going to see the GOP swing even harder to the right I think.

I agree, but such mentalities are going to start hurting the Republicans and continue to prevent them from every regaining the Presidency. Apparently 2022 is going to be the next election where all the districts have been re-Gerrymandered. I wonder if Republicans will be able to take as many Congressional seats as they have now if they continue down the path they are headed.

a reply to: introvert

This is how I feel too. I know none of the right wing posters are going to believe me when I say this (though my posting history does bare this out), but modern conservative politics have pushed me to the left. I didn't gravitate there naturally.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Leaving to where? Where can you go that this political madness doen't touch you?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

A party should represent its constituents. To say they are radicalized because you don't agree with their views does not make it so. You mention disrupting caucuses but the same thing happens on the left. Remember Bernie Sanders and Black Lives Matter? Remember Occupy Wall street? Honestly if the left is this upset about what the right is doing in regards to reorganizing their party and attempting to place candidates that represent their values and goals into the party then they must be doing something right. I say keep it up.

What were your thoughts on the shake ups in the DNC back around '68?

originally posted by: jimmyx
considering that the supreme court is controlled by a conservative majority, 31 state governors are controlled by republicans, 31 state legislative bodies are controlled entirely by republicans, the congress, both senate and the house are controlled by republicans, I would say that the problems in this country are caused by republicans...but....the right wing blames ALL THE PROBLEMS on the one democrat in high office, Obama.....
where is the daily bombardment of cynicism and anger, toward all these republican controlled institutions?????.......I hear crickets chirping...

You did know until 2012 Obama had a super majority in Congress , didnt you ? You did know that some of the Supreme Court Justices are "rumored" to be conservatives but never vote that way , didnt you ?

Epic Fail on the stats...

Meh,

In my uninvited, unsolicited and otherwise unwanted opinion, anyone that thinks within the confines of a two party system (Republican/Democrat) is automatically a fool.

Your options are chosen for you; they are offered to you and you somehow think that your vote counts....

Then, the most amazing part is that you actually get angry when the people you supposedly voted in do not do your collective bidding.

If you want to "deny ignorance" get some understanding of what the two party system has done to control the whole system.