How to fight the "War on Christmas" (regardless of real or perceived)

originally posted by: intrptr

Your thread title should read how to fight for Christmas.

Personally, i don't fight over symbols, I leave that to the symbol minded.

Interesting take on the title.

To me, personally, I just wanted the same backdrop to the same Santa pic I (and many, many others) have always had and always liked.

It wasn't a religious fight for me.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


So you don't think a "christmas" tree is a religious symbol? You know the one with a star on top.
The star jesus was born under.
That's why it's not called a Santa tree.
Santa has religious origins to. He was saint Nicholas.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
So you don't think a "christmas" tree is a religious symbol?

No, I don't. Evergreens were a symbol used during the solstice before Christianity was even born.

You know the one with a star on top.

Trees don't have stars on them unless people put them there.

...Santa has religious origins to. He was saint Nicholas.

OK. Religion owns ALL the symbols. Just like the word "marriage", Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and Leprechauns. It's ALL because of religion.

There. Happy?

a reply to: Bluntone22

People wear crosses and stars around their neck too. That doesn't make their neck a religious symbol. Hanging a religious symbol on something doesn't make the object also a religious symbol. What if the Israelites had hung some acceptable sacred symbol on their Golden Calf, would that have made it okay?

Jeremiah 10:3
For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.

I guess Jesus was also fastened to the tree with hammer and nails, so that he/we would not totter?

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: windword

I would suggest you contact Simon Malls and ask them.... as I couldn't tell you because I have no idea.

You made the thread. Did the mall make a public statement about not setting up a tree, so as to not offend atheists, or other religions? Since when has any one tried to avoid offending atheists? Or muslims for that matter. Maybe you and a handfull of others took offense to the lack of a tree because you felt slighted, and you FELT that your religion was not displayed properly for all to see. So you started a campaighn to call each store to push your ideals and threaten revenue losses over your own offense.

How freakin petty.

I feel that Christmas music decorations should wait until the last week of november. 1/6 of the year, 2 months of Christmas every year is just too much for me.

The rest is all Pagan beliefs, it almost as nothing to do with Jesus...on top of that, it even has it's own mascot using the same letter as Satan. Hardly a coincidence if you ask me. It's Christians that should be offended by what Christmas has become more than anybody else.

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: intrptr

Your thread title should read how to fight for Christmas.

Personally, i don't fight over symbols, I leave that to the symbol minded.

Interesting take on the title.

To me, personally, I just wanted the same backdrop to the same Santa pic I (and many, many others) have always had and always liked.

It wasn't a religious fight for me.

But it was definately a fight, that you started. And clearly in your OP and thread title, this was a religious issue to you. So you started threatening the mall and other businesses to get your way. And you won. Congratulations. You have successfully forced private businesses to bend to your will and force your beliefs on everyone else. BRAVO! BRAVO! You may now make the appropriate hash mark on your "arguments won" chalkboard.

originally posted by: windword

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.

I guess Jesus was also fastened to the tree with hammer and nails, so that he/we would not totter?

Oh wow, never heard of those lines...so the Christmas tree could be some sort of cruxifiction symbolism. I wouldn't be surprised knowing how much the Christian religion's been hijacked all these years.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: intrptr

Your thread title should read how to fight for Christmas.

Personally, i don't fight over symbols, I leave that to the symbol minded.

Interesting take on the title.

To me, personally, I just wanted the same backdrop to the same Santa pic I (and many, many others) have always had and always liked.

It wasn't a religious fight for me.

But it was definately a fight, that you started. And clearly in your OP and thread title, this was a religious issue to you. So you started threatening the mall and other businesses to get your way. And you won. Congratulations. You have successfully forced private businesses to bend to your will and force your beliefs on everyone else. BRAVO! BRAVO! You may now make the appropriate hash mark on your "arguments won" chalkboard.

Informing a business that if they no longer provide a product or service that I want, I will take my business elsewhere. That is somehow a bad thing?

By what you are saying, if I regularly go to a restaurant because they serve a specific thing that I like.... then they suddenly stop selling it... I should have to continue to go there? Further, is it better for anyone for me to stop doing business with them in silence rather than suggest a way to keep my business?

originally posted by: GD21D

originally posted by: eluryh22
This year, the mall owners (Simon Malls) decided that the elaborate Christmas Tree setup may "offend" people, so they opted to replace the traditional set-up with a semi-enclosed "glacier." [/url]

I've never met a single human being who was offended by Christmas decorations. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I've never heard anyone express dissatisfaction at the sight of trees with lights on them.

Furthermore, if you're reading this and you happen to be offended by something as petty as Christmas, do us all a favor and go jump off of a very tall building.

Let me paraphrase.

GD12D thinks if you do not agree with them. You should kill yourself. Merry christmas everybody.

And people wonder why religion comes under so much scrutiny.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Who said every evergreen tree is a religious symbol?
If a person takes a tree, cuts it down, sticks it in their house, decorates the tree in celebration of the birth of Christ then it becomes a religious symbol to the people decorating the tree.
How is that hard to understand.

I suppose no symbol has any meaning for you.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I prefer to leave symbols to the symbol minded.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Bluntone22

I prefer to leave symbols to the symbol minded.

Tell that to the Confederate flag debaters.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Bluntone22

I prefer to leave symbols to the symbol minded.

Tell that to the Confederate flag debaters.

I certainly would. Along with any other flag debaters.

a reply to: eluryh22

The point is, that the mall did set up christmas decorations along with a "pictures with santa" set. It just wasn't "christmas" enough for the OP. So he decided to join in on a campaighn to threaten the mall's revenue to get them to go that extra little bit. There was no "war on christmas" as his religious preference was displayed in full sight. This is more like he feels the right to press his institution down these private businesses throat by means of harrassment and threats of boycott.

It is like he was offended that there wasn't some effort to block the decorations, so he had to find some little detail he could get offended by. The only offended parties, were the christians.

Maybe the mall was planning on bringing in the tree in december. It's only the beginning of november now.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Christmas trees are a religious symbol. At least most people think of them as such.

It is for me and many others. But I don't know why Christians view it so. In any case, I wonder if Christians realize that some of their staunchest allies in the defense of "Christmas" trees are certain flavors of pagan.

As soon as you find out Father Christmas is make believe the whole event just loses all its magic. It's just a pain in the ass that drags on for 3 months. You can never capture the magic again, no matter how much crap you put up in the house,NYE is always a massive anti climax bah humbug to the whole thing.

a reply to: Woodcarver

You didn't answer my last questions so I'll ask again.

1) If a business makes changes to a product/service and consumers do not like the changes, should they be forced to continue to purchase said product/service? Or should they be free to seek the same product elsewhere?

2) Is it better for the business in question (in this case, Simon Malls) that people let them know what it is they want so the business can (if they choose to) make adjustments accordingly.

My two cents on point 2.... While I can't speak to what discussions were had behind the scenes or what went on in the boardrooms, I suspect (take this with a grain of salt) that Simon Malls, while not thrilled about the last few days, would rather have heard about people's dislike of their actions rather than lose out on $_______. The fact that they said it was a mistake leads me to that conclusion.

Edit to add something in response to an edit to your post.... The "he" you are talking about happens to be me. You are making claims about me that are untrue and baseless. When I am "offended" about something... I am not shy about it.

a reply to: eluryh22

This conversation harkens back to the toy drive thread that the christians still don't understand. It seems that these christians aren't willing to help children celebrate christmas unless they can inject them with their dogma.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: eluryh22

This conversation harkens back to the toy drive thread that the christians still don't understand. It seems that these christians aren't willing to help children celebrate christmas unless they can inject them with their dogma.

No, really, it doesn't. If I remember correctly, a huge part of that story was that a branch of government (military) was involved and people were up in arms about separation of church and state and all that.

To your claim about "these Christians,"..... I can't speak for anyone else but from what I've witnessed with my own eyes, whenever there is a disaster anywhere in the world, there are Christian groups (among many others) that raise funds, gather supplies, etc that are delivered by third parties. No dogma involved.