An Indictment Of Atheists

a reply to: Gryphon66

I meant being attacked because of their gender.

Apparently misogyny is a big problem in New Atheism:

Atheism's shocking woman problem

Many of the most prominent leaders of the New Atheism are quick to express deeply sexist ideas. Despite their supposed love of science and rationality, many of them are nearly as quick as their religious counterparts to abandon reason in order to justify regressive views about women.

Interesting read.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: Klassified

a reply to: Gryphon66

Actually she's partially right. In the atheism sub reddit there are reports of female atheists being harassed by many of their fellow male atheists.

Warning language:

skepchick.org...

That happens all over reddit. Sometimes it;s as bad as 4chan in places you wouldn't expect.

a reply to: reldra

But if you look at the poster above you it's not just a reddit problem but it's the fact that there some male atheists especially famous ones like Dawkins who still cling on to the idea that women are inferior. And that's scaring a lot of women away from atheism.

originally posted by: Metallicus
If I am being honest, the new feminists never make any sense to me. I love women and I have a wonderful wife and daughter, but my support for women ends when it becomes vindictive and angry.

Who are the 'new feminists', exactly ? There have always been angry ones.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: reldra

But if you look at the poster above you it's not just a reddit problem but it's the fact that there some male atheists that still cling on to the idea that women are inferior.

Or it is a couple of prominent atheists that want to sell books.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Metallicus
If I am being honest, the new feminists never make any sense to me. I love women and I have a wonderful wife and daughter, but my support for women ends when it becomes vindictive and angry.

In the case of some radical feminists, it's not limited to vindictiveness or anger.

It is more often pure nonsense presented as fact.

Have we actually found an area we agree on, Metallicus? LOL

We have, my friend. Always nice to find common ground.

originally posted by: NthOther
Apparently misogyny is a big problem in New Atheism:

Atheism's shocking woman problem

Many of the most prominent leaders of the New Atheism are quick to express deeply sexist ideas. Despite their supposed love of science and rationality, many of them are nearly as quick as their religious counterparts to abandon reason in order to justify regressive views about women.

Interesting read.

you get your research from the salon magazine?

guffaw!

general response to the thread:

a reply to: TzarChasm

Dawkins did have outdated views of women though

I became an atheist on my own, but it was Richard Dawkins who strengthened and confirmed my decision. For a long time, I admired his insightful science writing, his fierce polemics, his uncompromising passion for the truth. When something I’d written got a (brief) mention in The God Delusion, it was one of the high points of my life. So, I’m not saying this is easy, but I have to say it: Richard Dawkins, I’m just not that into you anymore. The atheist movement – a loosely-knit community of conference-goers, advocacy organizations, writers and activists – has been wracked by infighting the last few years over its persistent gender imbalance and the causes of it. Many female atheists have explained that they don’t get more involved because of the casual sexism endemic to the movement: parts of it see nothing problematic about hosting conferences with all-male speakers or having all-male leadership – and that’s before you get to the vitriolic and dangerous sexual harassment, online and off, that’s designed to intimidate women into silence. Richard Dawkins has involved himself in some of these controversies, and rarely for the better – as with his infamous “Dear Muslima” letter in 2011, in which he essentially argued that, because women in Muslim countries suffer more from sexist mistreatment, women in the west shouldn’t speak up about sexual harassment or physical intimidation. There was also his sneer at women who advocate anti-sexual harassment policies.

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: TzarChasm

you get your research from the salon magazine?

guffaw!

You don't like the content, so you'll criticize the source. If you agreed with the content, you'd think Salon was the finest source of investigative journalism on the planet.

Google "atheism and misogyny" if you really want to see how bigoted the movement is.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: Gryphon66

I meant being attacked because of their gender.

I don't doubt that ordinary women and radical feminists are attacked because of their gender.

But it's not because of atheism, as the OP points out.

a reply to: NthOther

So "many" = "two"?

I wonder if the author of that article is a radical feminist, by any chance.

Richard Dawkins is a right pill.

Sam Harris bores me to death, for the most part.

I guess I'm just not a good "New Atheist."

... which is A-OK by me.

a reply to: Klassified

She is a radical exclusive feminist. These are the ones who abhor third-wave feminism (the inclusive kind that fight for equality).

Part of the philosophy of her type of feminism is that there is no such thing as consensual sex and that ALL sex is rape. That is just one example. Most label them as a hate group. Third-wave feminists will normally not have anything to do with them.

If you read about these bigots (yes, they are very discriminatory), you will find several other instances of hate speech. Most feminists are third-wave and don't even know about the radical segments of feminism.

So I will have to pass at yet another attempt by one of them to turn something entirely unrelated into a sexism issue.

originally posted by: NthOther
Apparently misogyny is a big problem in New Atheism:

Atheism's shocking woman problem

Many of the most prominent leaders of the New Atheism are quick to express deeply sexist ideas. Despite their supposed love of science and rationality, many of them are nearly as quick as their religious counterparts to abandon reason in order to justify regressive views about women.

Interesting read.

Idealist egalitarianism has nothing to do with "reason" or science. That's what feminism is, really- a push for equality when there is no rational (or scientific, or whatever) reason to believe that men and women are equal.

a reply to: Klassified

What the...? I don't know what to say... If I were going to be dismissive, I'd say that someone needs to get a life. I can't imagine why someone would work so hard to come up with the ideas in the OP. Really. (Yeah, I see her point, too, but it seems like a lot of imagination at work.) Sounds like she's saying all male atheists are sexist, too. Not true.

Plenty of atheists don't want to belong to a religion, but still support other people's rights to do so, even if it embodies a male-dominated structure.

All you male atheists out there - I don't consider you hypocritical for not wanting to dismantle religion. Only if you are sexist, too, do I have an issue with it.

originally posted by: NthOther
Apparently misogyny is a big problem in New Atheism:

Atheism's shocking woman problem

Many of the most prominent leaders of the New Atheism are quick to express deeply sexist ideas. Despite their supposed love of science and rationality, many of them are nearly as quick as their religious counterparts to abandon reason in order to justify regressive views about women.

Interesting read.

Thanks for posting this. It actually fits with the OP. It would seem straw men abound among some radical feminists. Atheists are people from many different backgrounds and ideologies. Unlike religion, we don't have a bible, or a specific code we live by. Anyone who lacks belief in deities is an atheist. That includes misogynists. Our society is still stuck in a mindset that is thousands of years old. That women are somehow inferior because they are typically smaller in frame and stature than men. This seems to carry with it the idea that they must not be quite as logical and smart, either. It's a myth. Albeit a persistent one. I have hope in time our species will overcome this ancient division, and move on to doing better things with our time.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

There are plenty of times you can find feminists promoting the ideas that this or that is misogynist though.

Basically, there are times when it seems that simply being male is misogynist. So, in that vein, being a male atheist would be misogynist. If the leaders of an atheist movement are perceived to be male ala Dawkins, then to those feminists ... that brand of atheism and atheist thought would likely be labeled as misogynist.

They do the same thing with all the other spiritual philosophies/religions in the world.

This should not be a shocking piece to anyone familiar with certain brands of feminist thought. It was only a matter of time, really.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: NthOther
Apparently misogyny is a big problem in New Atheism:

Atheism's shocking woman problem

Many of the most prominent leaders of the New Atheism are quick to express deeply sexist ideas. Despite their supposed love of science and rationality, many of them are nearly as quick as their religious counterparts to abandon reason in order to justify regressive views about women.

Interesting read.

Thanks for posting this. It actually fits with the OP. It would seem straw men abound among some radical feminists. Atheists are people from many different backgrounds and ideologies. Unlike religion, we don't have a bible, or a specific code we live by. Anyone who lacks belief in deities is an atheist. That includes misogynists. Our society is still stuck in a mindset that is thousands of years old. That women are somehow inferior because they are typically smaller in frame and stature than men. This seems to carry with it the idea that they must not be quite as logical and smart, either. It's a myth. Albeit a persistent one. I have hope in time our species will overcome this ancient division, and move one to doing better things with our time.

There has never been any division between men and women. We are counterparts in perpetuity, so whatever is being "overcome" in the modern era is rather something else; perhaps a drive to overcome our very nature in the name of ideology, but certainly there was never any division.

And yes, our brains work differently. That doesn't imply any preeminence in men. Indeed, it's an admission of our deep reliance on and need for each other. The only people saying that men are smarter than women are these feminists themselves.

IMO real "atheists" never bother to participate in pointless arguments with "theists," just like most "theists" would never bother to join a forum to argue against the existence of the Great Pumpkin. If you don't believe a god exists you are not an "-ist" or an "-ism," you're simply a non-believer. I do believe it is the evangelical types who try their hardest to slap labels on anyone and everyone.

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
IMO real "atheists" never bother to participate in pointless arguments with "theists," just like most "theists" would never bother to join a forum to argue against the existence of the Great Pumpkin. If you don't believe a god exists you are not an "-ist" or an "-ism," you're simply a non-believer. I do believe it is the evangelical types who try their hardest to slap labels on anyone and everyone.

And this has what to do with the OP?