Fake? DNA Testing Deepens Mystery of Shroud of Turin

Is it a medieval fake or a relic of Jesus Christ? A new analysis of DNA from the Shroud of Turin reveals that people from all over the world have touched the venerated garment.

“Individuals from different ethnic groups and geographical locations came into contact with the Shroud [of Turin] either in Europe (France and Turin) or directly in their own lands of origin (Europe, northeast Africa, Caucasus, Anatolia, Middle East and India),” study lead author Gianni Barcaccia, a geneticist at the University of Padua in Italy and lead author of the new study describing the DNA analysis, said in an email. “We cannot say anything more on its origin.”

According to the article, the new findings neither prove or dismiss the authenticity of the shroud. The Vatican reportedly doesn't take a stance of the Shroud of Turin.

Interesting...

The oldest DNA snippets (which tend to be shorter because DNA breaks down over time) are found in many places on the shroud, and come from genetic lineages typically found only in India, Barcaccia said. That finding suggests that the shroud was manufactured in India before somehow making its way to Europe, as Indians had little contact with Europeans at the time of its origin.

It seems more advanced testing may be needed to make an accurate declaration on the shroud's authenticity. Approximately 40% of researchers feel the shroud is real, while the remaining 60% feel its a forgery.

If researchers can one day figure out how to test the isotopes in the limestone dust found on the shroud, they could say with greater certainty whether the shroud was ever in Jerusalem, he said.

Shroud of Turin

a reply to: Cosmic911

"All empirical evidence and logical reasoning concerning the shroud of Turin will lead any objective, rational person to the firm conclusion that the shroud is an artifact created by an artist in the fourteenth-century." --Steven D. Schafersman

Shroud

...the Vatican allowed the shroud to be dated by three independent sources--Oxford University, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology--and each of them dated the cloth as originating in medieval times, around 1350.

a reply to: Cosmic911

I have never understood looking for DNA on this relic. Has someone got a sample of Jesus's DNA to compare it to?

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Cosmic911

I have never understood looking for DNA on this relic. Has someone got a sample of Jesus's DNA to compare it to?

I imagine the only usefulness of DNA analysis would be to identify sex, though both male and female DNA has been detected on the shroud. Having said that, however, I believe more of the DNA has been male.

a reply to: Cosmic911

Do DNA tests prove Jesus had two human parents? Recently the Shroud of Turin has been re-dated within the range of 300 BC to 300 AD. As a result the blood found on the Shroud was type AB, and had both X and Y chromosomes. Where did the Y chromosome come from? If God is an immaterial being, how could he have randomly created the Y chromosomes and additional 23 chromosomes to constitute the 46 chromosomes needed for an embryo out of nothing? If all things that begin to exist require a cause, surely these 23 chromosome needed to make up all 46 chromosomes require a biological origin

Would DNA disprove a virgin birth?

a reply to: Cosmic911

In my opinion, if it was real, there is no way in hell they would let anyone touch it.

My guess.... Someone scammed some Knights Templar making "holy relics" that they said they found in Jerusalem.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Cosmic911

In my opinion, if it was real, there is no way in hell they would let anyone touch it.

My guess.... Someone scammed some Knights Templar making "holy relics" that they said they found in Jerusalem.

I tend to concur with you. I believe it's authentic to the 14th century, that doesn't seem to be debated.

Maybe someone cloned Jesus......

originally posted by: trifecta
Maybe someone cloned Jesus......

That would make an excellent premise for a movie. I can see it now: Godzilla vs. Mecha-Jesus.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: trifecta
Maybe someone cloned Jesus......

That would make an excellent premise for a movie. I can see it now: Godzilla vs. Mecha-Jesus.

For once, you made me chuckle.

There is hope for humanity,

(PS Jesus riding Godzilla vs the sludge monster)

perhaps an blood sample of the old family Saint Claire? a reply to: TerryMcGuire

a reply to: Cosmic911

Fabric's were traded widely, silk, Linen and many others moved with trade, a bolt of this fine material like this could have been shipped along the incence trade routes to reach Judea and then been bought by Joseph of Armythea or another whom had come into contact with the Messiah then been used to wrap his body.

I for one do believe it is genuine, the dating was shown to be erroneous with the fabric tested having been actually fabric from the patch sown into it by the nun's whom repaired the shroud which had been scorched after a fire at the cathedral but it is an item of faith and for all the skeptic's, well they shall continue to find excuses or try to disprove it as you know, often schewing there data in order to fit there own idiology's.

They even tried to make out Leonardo Davinci made it in one theory by first inventing and then forgetting photography but of course if he had done so then the mona lisa would have been a photograph as well but of course he did not do so because it is real and it was once folded into a small frame showing only the head and perhaps thought to be the veil of veronica, it was a sacred relic in constantinople before being looted by the crusaders whom had been blackmailed into attacking the christian city by the Venetians and then it disappearing for hundreds of years following this unholy crusade against fellow christians, probably being kept by the family of one of these crusaders before finally resurfacing now unfolded and found to be even more miraculous and the actual shroud not the veil at all.

But it will remain a matter of faith much like the Miraculous Cactus Cloth Tilma of St Juan Diego, an image with no paint on it that only acrylic could ever make today but that was a technology that simply did not exist in the 1500's and which has reflection's in the eye's that are curved exactly as they would be on the surface of an eyeball.

A reproduction of this image was prayed before by an admiral just before the battle of Lepanto were the turkish fleet that outnumbered the christian fleet was finally and totally defeated thus changing the direction of history.

During the Mexican revolution a bomb exploded under the alter, destroying the alter and damaging the crowded church but no one was even injured and the image which should have rotted away centurys ago essentially being cactuse cloth paper remained intact though it was not even in a display case back then.

The image MAY have been touched up at later date's but it remains genuine and real, the angel under the moon was not mentioned in the early writings on the image for example.

infallible-catholic.blogspot.co.uk...
www.michaeljournal.org...
campus.udayton.edu...
campus.udayton.edu...
holyhillcross.com...

I once painted a lifesize reproduction of this image, it was a very bad time in my life and I was crying out to heaven for help and though I had not finished it, it glowed and I was so frightened much to my eternal shame feeling like I dare not attempt to finish it that I painted over the unfinished image so erm yeah I guess I am no saint and by the way to any anti catholics I have to say this.

She is the mother of Christ so if they are simply anti catholic do not be anti mary (Miriam) as well or else they WILL offend him and then have no right to claim to be christian of any flavour.

S+F

He he, just wait til they find his toilet paper.

a reply to: Cosmic911

I wonder what the Priory of Sion's opinion of the Shroud of Turin is? Though the priory is reported to have dissolved in 1956.

a reply to: Cosmic911

The interesting thing about cells is that when the sequence is determined the sequence is stored under next line it could itcould be anyone full stop the database isn't infallible full stop

originally posted by: NJE777
a reply to: Cosmic911

The interesting thing about cells is that when the sequence is determined the sequence is stored under next line it could itcould be anyone full stop the database isn't infallible full stop

Interesting. Would you be willing to provide an example, please? To help demonstrate.

In 2010 a young woman's body was found but not identified until 2015, the reason for that is because her DNA sequence was not on the database it is a huge case in Australia at the moment because her daughter was found recently and that is how they establishes their familiar sequences full stop next paragraph another issue is called human error comma that is when the cell sequence of someone else is stored under somebody else's name navigate go to post button tab

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Cosmic911

They even tried to make out Leonardo Davinci made it in one theory by first inventing and then forgetting photography but of course if he had done so then the mona lisa would have been a photograph as well but of course he did not do so because it is real and it was once folded into a small frame showing only the head and perhaps thought to be the veil of veronica, it was a sacred relic in constantinople before being looted by the crusaders whom had been blackmailed into attacking the christian city by the Venetians and then it disappearing for hundreds of years following this unholy crusade against fellow christians, probably being kept by the family of one of these crusaders before finally resurfacing now unfolded and found to be even more miraculous and the actual shroud not the veil at all.

Why on earth would the Mona Lisa have been a photograph as well if Leonardo had used photography to create the Shroud of Turin?! Your non sequitur argument is totally illogical and does not refute this very realistic possibility. You offer no source backing your empty claim that it was a sacred relic in Constantinople before the Crusaders took it. It wouldl be news to all serious scholars researching it! But no matter, we all know that people make up evidence or quote opinions as factual to support their theories in the hope that others on internet forums will believe them.... The fact of the matter is that no one knows for sure where the Shroud of Turin originated. If it had been once wrapped around the face of a corpse, the facial features of the image would have been distorted by its curvature, not naturally proportioned. This is irrefutable proof that the image was made on a FLAT cloth so that it could not have been a real burial shroud. The fact that a faint image on the back of the sheet was detected by an Italian physicist over a decade ago is further evidence supporting the view that a trial run was carried out by the hoaxer in projecting an image of a corpse onto a linen sheet bought back from the Holy Land and impregnated with a photo-sensitive chemical that could have been known to alchemists. He would have used a camera obscura technique, which was known to Leonardo because he wrote about it in one of his notebooks.

a reply to: micpsi

If it had been once wrapped around the face of a corpse, the facial features of the image would have been distorted by its curvature, not naturally proportioned. This is irrefutable proof that the image was made on a FLAT cloth so that it could not have been a real burial shroud.

This is something I hadn't previously thought of.

I see people from India had touched it. I wonder if Jesus visited to India during his lost years. That is often the rumor that Christ = Krishna. And catholic church might not want to mention Shround of Turin because they know Jesus did go to India and got Buddhist ideas there, that hurts catholic church because supposedly Jesus got his ideas from his father, God.