Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban says migrant influx is a conspiracy....

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Marxism has very little following in any of the former Soviet bloc - though all the tactics that were really bad and unpleasant are of course adopted by right-wing nationalist parties. I do not see Soros as a Marxist - in fact during the system change (when many countries opted out of the Soviet System) he really put in big money to establish foundations and universities to promote his "Open Society" idea and openly helped NGO's and cultural products. "Open Society" clearly goes along with capitalism and he was and is against all forms of closed society, whether their rulers claim it is for the common good which was clearly vindicated by honest Marxists.
It is globalism and TV that destroys traditions, here including Chinese plastic manufacturing, but that is inescapable. You can emerge on the other side of the wave - with a post-consumer approach. But I do not see the recent wave of nostalgia for nationalist pasts in the East as genuine in any respect. It is more likely that they are a sign of immaturity - all these societies failed to successfully complete the first wave of civil revolutions against feudalism. What the French Revolution changed, the American Revolution, and so on. You could say that modern Germany passed this gradually after the defeat of Nazism.
However, it is not by chance that they also have the highest amount of neo-Nazis and also economic problems in the East of Germany, which used to be under Soviet rule.
Vladimir Lenin changed Marx's original theory and promoted the idea that Socialism would not start in the heart of the West with revolutions of the working class (as Marx and Engels predicted it would), but rather in Russia and other mixed, backwards societies. Marx had his merits as a critic in sociology of the 19th century order - one has to answer his challenges in sociology and economics if you are in either of those sciences. Lenin, in contrast, was a mafioso with a schizophrenic style of thinking, who seized power and had no qualms about millions of Ukrainians starving to death. He introduced a culture of lying and deceit and power politics in Eastern Europe which is alive to this very day. Plus there was a strong degree of Russian nationalism about the whole Soviet idea which you cannot miss. Even the very hymn of the Soviet Union glorified the Union having been forged by "High Russia" (velikaya Rus).

The Hungarian guy is right.

I believe this is all part of the NATO plot.

The plot is to destroy some ME countries and Merkel’s job was to accept these immigrants from some of the destroyed countries.


That’s why she so quietly is accepting this from the EU and America.

Germany in the plot did not have to provide troops in this evil game( such as in the Iraq war and the Libyan war) so that’s why their getting the brunt of the immigrants as their contribution to the NATO Plot.

Maybe at some extent it is a plot. Like, when the West decided to intervene in Libya (a wrong choice with a benevolent dictator), and intervene halfway in Syria (which was the worst thing they could do psychologically), one could simply predict that half of Africa plus the destabilized countries will try to cross to Europe. Libya stopped all Sahel migrants until it existed and it was a curious mix of Socialism and dictatorship.
But this was already "decided" when the then Conservative US and Britain attacked Saddam on trumped-up charges...
Decide means any sane politician could foresee that there will come a day. By now it's too late without a large-scale destruction.
But surely it has nothing to do with Soros. All he does is extend some help to those that are already here because he is a humanist and the UN isn't doing enough. When it turned out that Erdogan will crack down on Syrian refugees bureaucratically and with cutting their resources, leading EU powers could have done a lot there with decent money and quotas and education - languages, customs etc. They could have swung Erdogan's boat if it pay for them to have this regime and it looks like it does anyway.
A world war is hatching because the EU powers are stingy, cheap and undecided. And Russia does not really help except delay the inevitable confrontation between radical Islam and the West. Haven't the learned enough in Afghanistan and Chechnya?

So many shills in this thread... I hope the Open Society Foundation pays you guys well.

George Soros had his part in Ukraine, Ferguson and the GBP.

As of the state of our education/healthcare: they've always been this way and they've been constantly degrading for at least 15 years. So yeah, neither sides did anything to help the situation. The press is as free as it goes, the biggest news portals are against the government and can (and do) write whatever the hell they want.

As of Muslim immigrants: they have done the same thing 500 years ago so of course we don't want them here again.

So what does Soros have to do with the refugees?
Clearly, Orban argues that Soros is "behind the current flow." I heard it in Hungarian and heard his spokesmen repeat it.

How exactly?

Without proofs, this is just speculation.

As for Orban, he made the same amount of money in a few years - but not on the money markets and not in London and New York. No, he did it by ripping off his own people, a poor Eastern European nation. Gutting the education, appropriating private pension funds, swallowing money from EU projects and making even the plumber from his village a billionaire in three years... building a private soccer stadium in his village of birth while finishing off unemployment benefits... recently about three hundred thousand children are starving where a few decades ago there were practically none).

This guy is clearly sick, and corrupt to the bone no matter what Soros supports.
Moslem immigration should be discussed elsewhere and it has been. However, complex questions require complex answers.

Soros is a rotten apple, always has been, and most probably has a dirty secret agenda..

Orban is a very very small step away from being a totalistic, sociopathic, rascistic, terroristic dictator.

Just look at the state of free speach in his country. Why yes, of course we would like to have less journalists, those are a pest!

Really, some parts of ATS have gone far in the shallow waters of hate and rascism.

originally posted by: csehszlovakze
So many shills in this thread... I hope the Open Society Foundation pays you guys well.

.

Caught my eye as well, people from eons ago with a couple of posts suddenly busting a move, hah, thanks for your contribution indeed.

...and you can argue a lot of things about the prime minister of Hungary but the man has balls and he ain't afraid to show them. He is listening to his people, his people, not american or german and i have tremendous respect for those kind of politicians.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
Orban is a very very small step away from being a totalistic, sociopathic, rascistic, terroristic dictator.

m.

So you're trying to tell me that when Magyari people don't want a million of refugees flooding their country which is not in the best economic state anyway, the person who said i agree and did something about it is a totalistic dictator??

yeah ..Nope, you're wrong.

That is not why he is a "totalistic dictator." It's an independent issue. And he is not yet a totalitarian dictator by definition - he is growing closer and closer to a Putinesque or Erdogan-style repressive society though.

I admit he is an extremely courageous politician. Perhaps it does matter what it is that he defends so courageously, though.
Not the Magyar citizens in general, but mostly his narrow clique of nouveau riche.

Not many of the "refugees" want to stay in Hungary FYI, and not many have over the years. Almost one hundred percent go to Germany or Sweden. There is very little immigration in Hungary - and it is mostly ethnic Hungarians from neighboring countries.

FYI I have never participated in any program to benefit from the Soros foundation personally, though I no doubt enjoyed reading some studies or seeing some lecturers he financed via Central European University. I wish it was that simple.

a reply to: Kokatsi

Well I am not there so I will indeed give your words some heavy consideration.
I have been predicting that before the next great conflict we will see moves towards nationalism and protectionist/isolationist policies. This is the natural recoiling that societies are doing in attempts to stop globalism and a general international communist movement from the elites. This is the only reason we would wind up in a situation for global conflict just as in the last great wars. Just as in those wars nationalism and totalitarianism rose to counter the communist elements radicalizing and subverting any attempts to bolster a nations sovereignty.

This fits with the globalist Hegelian dialectical methodology. Problem = refugees/immigration Reaction = Xenophobia Solution = Nationalism. This gets them one step closer to demonizing nationalism and independents and sets up events to create a call for a true globalist state as a result of nationalist conflicts. That is my take from a overall perspective and viewing the long term goals instead of the knee jerk stuff others want to focus on.

a reply to: Kokatsi

Dont you Love when knowledge fails for the masses, they will never understand you.

Off topic, Orbán and his party did score some good points, like defending Hungary against GMO products.

a reply to: NihilistSanta
Perhaps if Orban was a true nationalist like the rulers of South Korea when that nation managed to come up to be one of the First World nations, I would support him despite my conviction that equal rights and democracy were good in the long run.

I would not argue that it is OK to let a million aliens here suddenly in a country of 10 million people. Though there is such rampant unemployment that if this meant serious work issued by the UN or the EU one would think about it. But this whole question is phony on two counts (make that three). One, refugees do not want to stay here - we only have a few hundred people from last years, mostly Albanians from Kosovo opening bakeries, and a few Syrian doctors who speak excellent Hungarian, but they usually escaped before the war. Two, Hungary spent enormous amounts of money of building razor fences and civilians were distributing food and medicines for the transient migrants while the government did next to nothing. Three, the PM lost a large popular base last year because of things like trying to tax the Internet by volume and cutting the budgets of all universities and hospitals. He needed this refugee crisis because TV watchers would swing back (most media is in state hands) seeing how he "protects Hungary" against Arabs who don't actually want to come here at all... And it worked.

Imagine, the government spent hundreds of millions (dollar millions) on giant billboard ads across the country warning refugees that they should respect Hungary and its traditions. IN HUNGARIAN. I mean, the posters are IN HUNGARIAN. (For speakers of Arabic, Pashtu, and some with English.)

The trouble is that a lot of what these plastic nationalists in the post-Soviet world do isn't clean at all. Just like in Russia under Yeltsin, a few undeserving mafiosi seized control of all the stuff that Communism took away from private citizens. Nothing like this happened before in modern history as Bálint Magyar points out in his sociological study "The Hungarian Octopus". This is a specific pattern of post-Communist societies.

No competition here, and while you can point at corrupt methods of neo-colonialism and peddling influence in the West, that's ALL you find here since 1989. Just because one block sways the masses with nationalist slogans they are not necessarily telling the truth. In simple words, their actions prove day by day that they do not want to protect ordinary citizens. Day by day, I see evidence that his friends and relatives get immensely rich out of nothing, while people critical of him undergo harassment by all authorities. Culture is defunct, funds cut except to friends. The Constitution rewritten. We are no longer a republic.

Janos Lazar, pretty much his deputy once last year voiced the opinion that "if you have nothing, that's how much you're worth." This is not an honest nationalist, this is a world of Dickensian capitalism now, and they are perfectly fine to cooperate with Western industry and accepting EU funds. The whole thing is a sham. Plastic nationalism.

But, as Santa remarks, the times are like this, many nations are back at a protectionist philosophy at the ideological level.
Too bad the economy and the laws they make over here do not match this ideology at all. If the reality gap widens, a really violently nationalistic party - Jobbik - will seize power in 2018. At least they are honest about what they want to do - the average citizen will say. OK, they want Gypsies in concentration camps and gays in reeducation centers and abortion banned and paramilitaries, fine...

OK...ok...get ready for it. This is sooooo dramatic.

All the chess pieces are being positioned toward the final moves that began with 9/11 and Obama's reign of terror. We are almost ready to see the final moves leading to....CHECK MATE!

Can't you just hear the dramatic, deep voice. But the sad part is...it is likely true.

a reply to: Kokatsi

I'm sorry but you're not seeing the big picture (just yet). While true that migrants want to go to western Europe countries they also need to be registered, temporarily homed and transported to west ... do you have any idea how much that costs and who pays for that? Seems to me you did not think this through because that wired fence was a true bargain in comparison.

Second issue, coming from the virgin herself, miss Merkel who invited those migrants in the first place (fine by me actually, if she needs cheap workforce she can invite them over to her place anytime, next time however she should pay for their transport as well) is and i quote ' if Germany closed it's borders it would lead to war in the Balkans' .... what, you think she wouldn't dare?

Third, when SHTF and schengen is out the window, where do you think all of those migrants already on route to western Europe are gonna be staying?

originally posted by: ManFromEuropeReally, some parts of ATS have gone far in the shallow waters of hate and rascism.

Well, it's not dubbed 'Absolute Totalitarian Stupidity' for nothing...!

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
that began with 9/11 and Obama's reign of terror.

a reply to: Exitt

I feel addressed so I have to point out I'm unfortunately not getting paid for 2-3 times a year writing out my oppinion on a contheo forum. Usually about things I have first hand experience or I share a link related to the topic. I barely ever came up with ideological stuff. How would that pay me, I mean if you think I'm getting paid how much should I earn for one comment to make a living out of it? Just think about that...

The only reason I decided to comment is that I've seen Orban's name in the topic title and I wanted the OP to know that he is not at all the big saviour of europe neither the big conspiracy whistleblower. It's like a middle eastern arabic country's insane leader speaking of the zionist jewish conspiracy.... yes, we all know about but this doesn't make that fundamentalist islamic dictartor a good guy! Do you understand this?

a reply to: Exitt
It was mostly civilians who paid for food and medical care and toys for the children.
The barbed fence fence was initially estimated to cost 22 billion HUF which is about 0.6 billion EURO. I am sure fine transit sites could have been established and bus routes.

An incredibly vicious game was played by the government using the refugees.
They arrived from the south of Hungary and they came up to the capital - only to be sent to the far eastern side of the country near Debrecen. Not that that place had the capacity to hold tens of thousands of people. Then they could travel on to Austria and Germany - again through Budapest which is smack between Debrecen and Vienna - the only single railway goes through Budapest. No wonder the refugees stopped giving fingerprints and registration.

Official Hungary pretended all along that they are coming to Hungary as immigrants. That's the word most government-aligned people were using.

After the refugees bought their tickets, Orban stopped the railways from starting from Budapest. That was when they started to march on foot towards Austria. Public opinion was so sharply against this positively Sadist style of goverrnent that riots threatened like when Orban wanted to tax the Internet. Finally they agreed to bus the people to the Austrian border.

The entire affair was deflecting attention from the greatest pyramid game ever played in Hungary by the broker firm Quaestor in which tens of thousands of little investors lost all their money, plus the sale of all state-owned agricultural land to the pals of the Godfather (no farmers need to apply), only to grab the EU funds due for the lands in the coming years without cultivating them.

I am not saying the mass influx of people into Europe is not a problem - far from it.
But I am sorry to say that your "hero" is a petty mafioso with macho attitudes, and a big-big hand shoveling money to his own pocket and that of his friends. My guess is that he merely used this refugee question to line his pockets more - on the advice of Arthur Finkelstein and associates.

I am totally glad that Orban understands conspiracies when he sees one! So here's another one for him straight from EU secret services.

Apparently according to unnamed officials, Hungary has actually altered the Italian climate so much during the past week or so, that it led to a terrible situation in Abruzzo. With an avalanche killing ~14 people!
According to EU secret services, the Italians have responded by crashing a bus full of young students against a bridge structure on an highway in Italy, while those kids were on school vacation!