For those who continue to believe nobody knows why the pyramids were built

originally posted by: bluesfreak

It’s done as if a belt sander has been used moving along a section at a time, and by a tool that has no problem stripping away the granite.
I wonder how they planned to remove it from the bedrock, weighing 1000 tons ?

The same way they moved the other obelisks however they would probably have had difficulty with something this large but they had moved heavier objects before. Well actually just one a 1,000 ton statue of Ramessuem it was located at Thebes after being cut at Aswan and transported to Thebes 270 km probably by ship. Then moved and erected it but it now broken up.



The earliest temple obelisk still in its original position is the 68-foot (20.7 m) 120-metric-ton (130-short-ton)red granite Obelisk of Senusret I of the XIIth Dynasty at Al-Matariyyah in modern Heliopolis.



They cut and moved a lot of them - so did the Romans who stole a bunch of them, they lowered them, transported them to Rome and raised them back up. They moved eight and also had five made and shipped to Rome too.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh where did they plug that sander into?

Its odd that there is no sign of the development of electricity, metallurgy or any of the other necessary sciences to build a 'sander', no infrastructure to build or use one either.

Also the Sumerians were working hard stoneat the same time and they too have no sign of advanced tools, yet they could work hard stone - did they borrow tools and a generator from the AE?

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Yes I have, the pictures I posted are of the ‘modern’ stone we’ve been talking about, aren’t they?! ( or have I been ‘Dunn’? pun intended )
So which is it Harte, AE cutting that shows abrasive features that Stocks replicated in his proof of concept you stand by, and have been trying to convince me of its match with, OR it’s a modern piece cut by power tools with the feed rate clearly shown ( as I see at work every day) that you argue DOESNT show feed rate. If it’s ‘modern’ it didn’t need sand abrasives to cut it, did it? Just ordinary earth diamonds, not ‘alien super diamonds’ either. a reply to: Harte

This stone: www.abovetopsecret.com...
is not this stone:www.abovetopsecret.com...

We're talking about both.

Won't you answer my point that the striations in the first one appear vertical, not curved with the cut?


Harte

Indeed they do look as you suggest, but there’s not much of them in the pic , would love to see a fuller pic of the cuts to really conclude that, although I have read written descriptions of the piece that say the striations follow the curve of the termination point from top to bottom of the slab , but I want to see it.
I have an open mind on this, Harte, and I’m here to ask those who know more more about Egyptology than me.
reply to: Harte

This is the collection of pics of the object, I thought we were talking about the same stone..

a reply to: Harte

So to sum up, it’s a piece that to you shows the signature of AE copper and sand abrasive cutting work, at the same time it is stated that it was cut recently with modern power tools showing automated feed rate?

Which one?
Or...
It’s cut by a large diameter AE saw turned fast enough to achieve the feed rate forensics that are evident here.
Were they just even more clever than we thought, or is that a bad thing to say?

Perhaps you could answer my question about the ‘Gears’? Are they gears? They have a sort of key way in the centre( and it would have to be quite accurately in the centre to work well) for attaching it to a spindle, you’ll have seen this in your career Harte, Theres 3 different sizes which shows ratio maths. You know you can get say a lathe to turn at 1000rpm using a set of small cogs to ratio up a basic turning speed - diameters of between 3 cm up to about 15 cm do it, they don’t have to be large .
What do you suppose these were used for? They look like quite a complex pitch at the bottom.

a reply to: Harte

Hi Hanslune,
Firstly, I wasn’t saying they needed THAT exact belt sander, with a plug on!
What I meant was, a tool that works in the same way, not necessarily electrical, it could be hand wound . Bet you that would still be quicker than pounding. Lots of them look the same width too.
Secondly, floating a 120 tonne obelisk is not the same as 1000 tonnes. What kind of a vessel was that?! Or did they use boats side by side. Still. 1000 tonnes??
You have experience in pounding, so why do it like that, what’s the stone workers reasoning here?
a reply to: Hanslune

I personally think Egyptology ( or archaeology as a whole) should welcome enquiring minds from all fields to search for the greater questions of humanity’s past.
Only engineers will ever truly be able to answer how these wonderful pieces were produced, not academic archaeologists who may not know about tooling signatures or feed rate, the forces involved between the tool and cut face or what they are even looking at .
Similarly, engineers don’t know the known history or read hieroglyphs , neither do geologists, architects, but all ideas should be entertained no matter how apparently crazy .
This MUST become a multi-disciplined field or we are going nowhere .
I am so open to being proven wrong and enlightened , and so should academia.

IIRC, those "gears" are from a much later age. It's just that con men like to say differently. a reply to: Harte


There are temples in India that have gears ratiod and carved on the wall. Have a look. The Hoysaleswara Temple is a good example.

The writing is on the wall for all to see :-)

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Indeed they do look as you suggest, but there’s not much of them in the pic , would love to see a fuller pic of the cuts to really conclude that, although I have read written descriptions of the piece that say the striations follow the curve of the termination point from top to bottom of the slab , but I want to see it.
I have an open mind on this, Harte, and I’m here to ask those who know more more about Egyptology than me.
reply to: Harte

I get the point about there not being much shown in the pic. But that only makes me wonder why not.
Just to reiterate, I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable concerning Ancient Egypt as several people that post here. My area of expertise (if I can call it that) is the fringe claims themselves.

I never cared enough about the AEs or any other civilizations/cultures (including my own) to learn that much about them. I was dragged kicking and screaming into what I know today about Ancient Egypt. I am FAR, FAR more interested in earlier species of humans, but this sidetrack has cost me almost 40 years of time and it's probably too late for me to pursue that kind of history. Besides, they keep changing it anyway! LOL

The whole thing started with me doing Atlantis research and realizing I'd have to look into AE writings and myths because of what Critias said about Solon getting the story there. That's my entry point. and everything I've learned about the AEs since was the result of me looking into fringe claims about them.

Harte

Oh yes!
Coincidentally held in the hands of Masana Bhairava (Masana = Measurement; Bhairava = God) a reduction gear . Still, it’s only 900 yrs old , but where did the carvers see these objects?
Cogs look quite similar to those AE ones, eh Harte?Interesting a reply to: purplemer

originally posted by: bluesfreak
This is the collection of pics of the object, I thought we were talking about the same stone..

a reply to: Harte

So to sum up, it’s a piece that to you shows the signature of AE copper and sand abrasive cutting work, at the same time it is stated that it was cut recently with modern power tools showing automated feed rate?

Which one?
Or...
It’s cut by a large diameter AE saw turned fast enough to achieve the feed rate forensics that are evident here.
Were they just even more clever than we thought, or is that a bad thing to say?

I didn't realize they were the same stone, if they are.
You'd have to ask Byrd about the modernity. I've not seen that. But I will say that every time I've seen a pic of that stone it came from Dunn. Makes me wonder why that is.
Also, how does a circular saw blade make a 3-D cut like that one? I know how a pounder and smoothing stone can do it.
Not an example of this, but here's a link to a vid of a guy grinding granite by hand with a diorite stone and you can see that he makes progress.
I can't post pics or vids here anymore because I run an adblocker.

Harte

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Perhaps you could answer my question about the ‘Gears’? Are they gears? They have a sort of key way in the centre( and it would have to be quite accurately in the centre to work well) for attaching it to a spindle, you’ll have seen this in your career Harte, Theres 3 different sizes which shows ratio maths. You know you can get say a lathe to turn at 1000rpm using a set of small cogs to ratio up a basic turning speed - diameters of between 3 cm up to about 15 cm do it, they don’t have to be large .
What do you suppose these were used for? They look like quite a complex pitch at the bottom.

a reply to: Harte

If I remember correctly, those are medieval. The Cairo Museum houses more than just Ancient Egyptian artifacts.

Harte

originally posted by: purplemer

IIRC, those "gears" are from a much later age. It's just that con men like to say differently. a reply to: Harte


There are temples in India that have gears ratiod and carved on the wall. Have a look. The Hoysaleswara Temple is a good example.

The writing is on the wall for all to see :-)

16th century gears in Europe: www.gutenberg.org...
16th Century Source
12th Century would be comparable from what I read.
Besides that, you're looking at decor in that temple pic, not a mechanism.

Harte

Besides that, you're looking at decor in that temple pic, not a mechanism.

??! Really. Prove it. Held in the hands of a goddess of measurement?
I’m starting to think this “Deny Ignorance” thing only works in one direction here....
Anyway Harte ,
You never replied to my ‘sum up’ in the post with multiple pictures of that curved granite piece we were talking about....
EDIT!! oops just seen you have replied, my apologies.a reply to: Harte

In machining terms you could do it with the circular blade tilted at a sufficient angle to cut through creating an elipse , but it would have to be a very strong blade indeed. It COULD be done though.
Incidentally, there is a ‘notch’in the top right portion of this piece where there is an error in the cut. Could be caused by a ‘skip’of the saw due to it being pushed to its functional limit with such a cut..
a reply to: Harte

a reply to: bluesfreak

Held in the hands of a goddess of measurement?

According to whom? Some answers from some who seem to be qualified.

Bhairava is a form of Shiva, we had 1000 forms of bhairava and 10000 forms of Rudra, most of them are not in use now. Masana Bhairava is a tantric form of Shiva which is necessarily used for Uchattan purpose during the act in the cremation ground, the sacred thread is tied in 8 directions and masana bhairava is invoked to imply ashtadik bandhana or protection from all the 8 directions.

It has nothing to do with measurements, may be the thread which are tied for 8 sides have been confused as such

Lol,no

Masana is the Kannada adaptation (tadbhava) of the Sanskrit word, Smashaana.

In Sanskrit, Smashaana means the burial ground.

So, Masana Bhairava is a form of Bhairava who dwells in burial grounds. He has nothing to do with measurements.

source

First of all , I think it’s a goddess on this temple, not a male deity.
Here’s where i read it after being told to search for pictures . And those ARE reduction gears, without a doubt that is a mechanism, more blatant denial in the face of intriguing evidence.
Sure, they just happened to carve a 2:1 ratio for either slowing down a spindle by half or doubling the speed. Just for decoration. Lmao

Link

Link

a reply to: Phage

originally posted by: bluesfreak
First of all , I think it’s a goddess on this temple, not a male deity.
Here’s where i read it after being told to search for pictures . And those ARE reduction gears, without a doubt that is a mechanism, more blatant denial in the face of intriguing evidence.
Sure, they just happened to carve a 2:1 ratio for either slowing down a spindle by half or doubling the speed. Just for decoration. Lmao

Link

Link

a reply to: Phage

Where are the teeth engaged in the pic then? A geared mechanism can't do anything if the gears aren't meshed.
Is this mechanism in "idle?"

Harte

a reply to: bluesfreak

First of all , I think it’s a goddess on this temple, not a male deity.

You're the one who provided the name.
Bhairava

Here’s where i read it after being told to search for pictures . And those ARE reduction gears,

Coaxial. How do they engage?

a reply to: bluesfreak

First off the "gears" are not stone, they look to be cast iron or possibly a bronze, one has a greenish discoloration. And you can see mold parting line on one of the objects.
One object would be useless as a gear, because its a sprocket, probably for a leather cogged belt.
Most certainly industrial revolution era, and the form reminds me very much of cotton processing equipment parts.
Imagine that, finding cotton processing machine parts in a former british holding, that just happens to be one of the cotton homelands.