For those who continue to believe nobody knows why the pyramids were built

originally posted by: dragonridr
First the reason we have 360 degrees is its based off of Babylon and there base 60 numerical system.s.

The reason the Babylonians divided a circle into 360 degrees is because they used a superior highly composite number
Namely the number 60. They inherited it from the Akkadians who inherited it from the Sumerians who allegedly invented it.
That was a sexagesimal (base 60) numeral system.

They also counted 360 days in a year, the year ended with lots of festivals to ensure that the gods returned five and a bit days later. Their new year began when the Pleiedes, which they saw as the seven sages (Gods) moved back into its new years day position, so their way of measuring the year was more accurate than ours

To the Sumerians, measurement was entwined in everything, so the 360 days in a year to them was the same as 360 degrees of a circle.
They also gave us 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour.
This is how they wrote 3600

As they divided each degree into 10 Arc minutes

I'm hoping that you guys reading this are seeing how everything was intertwined into 360 or divisions of 60 for the Sumerians. This is also the reason that we divide the day into AM and PM, because 24 isn't a factor of 60, but 12 is...

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
Now I did say I haven't checked my documents to insure who the quote was from..

It was Masoudi, but you are misquoting him

He (Surid) also ordered the priests to deposit their wisdom within them (The pyramids), written accounts of their wisdom and acquirements in the different arts and sciences with the writings of the priests containing all manner of wisdom, the names and properties of medical plants, and the sciences of arithmetic and geometry, that they might remain as records, for the benefit of those who could afterwards comprehend them In the eastern pyramid (Great pyramid) were inscribed the heavenly spheres, and figures representing the stars and planets The king, also, deposited the positions of the stars and their cycles; together with the history and chronicle of time past, of that which is to come, and every future event which would take place in Egypt'

He believed that the stars and planets are on the inside along with all the accumulated knowledge of the Egyptians, so its pretty clear that he'd never been inside.

But even if that had been the case, the Egyptians only knew of the five planets, visible to the naked eye. No ancient culture knew of more than that, it took the invention of the telescope to change that, the Greeks also adorned their temples with figures representing the stars and planets and you are already probably familiar with the art if not the symbolism, take a look at the triangular roof of a few, the triangle represents Olympus and the gods are seated inside it.

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: dragonridr
First the reason we have 360 degrees is its based off of Babylon and there base 60 numerical system.s.

The reason the Babylonians divided a circle into 360 degrees is because they used a superior highly composite number
Namely the number 60. They inherited it from the Akkadians who inherited it from the Sumerians who allegedly invented it.
That was a sexagesimal (base 60) numeral system.

They also counted 360 days in a year, the year ended with lots of festivals to ensure that the gods returned five and a bit days later. Their new year began when the Pleiedes, which they saw as the seven sages (Gods) moved back into its new years day position, so their way of measuring the year was more accurate than ours

To the Sumerians, measurement was entwined in everything, so the 360 days in a year to them was the same as 360 degrees of a circle.
They also gave us 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour.
This is how they wrote 3600

As they divided each degree into 10 Arc minutes

I'm hoping that you guys reading this are seeing how everything was intertwined into 360 or divisions of 60 for the Sumerians. This is also the reason that we divide the day into AM and PM, because 24 isn't a factor of 60, but 12 is...

Your actually wrong about hours and why we have am and pm. The egyptiabs were credited with inventing the sun dial which they divided into 12 parts to match there numerical system base 12. The reason Am and PM simple the Egyptians could accurately measure the day but not the night. SO THEY DIFFERENTIATED THE TWO. This carried on through to today with am and pm.

PS the egptian numerical system was solely theirs and not based on sumerian. The only major influence on egptian mathematics comes later with greek influences.

originally posted by: dragonridrYour actually wrong about hours and why we have am and pm. The egyptiabs were credited with inventing the sun dial which they divided into 12 parts to match there numerical system base 12. The reason Am and PM simple the Egyptians could accurately measure the day but not the night. SO THEY DIFFERENTIATED THE TWO. This carried on through to today with am and pm.

The "Egyptiabs" were credited with inventing the sun dial, which was based on Mesopotamian time keeping

Here is the oldest sun dial from Egypt
www.livescience.com...
Which post dates the collapse of the Sumerian civilisation by about 1200 years

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: Byrd


Here's the problem, though... "degrees" is something invented by humans in the last few centuries. If we'd decided to divide the sky by a different number (400 instead of 360 or 200, or 600) then Orion's declination wouldn't be "58 degrees."

Hmmm, you are not having a great day today Byrd, the Sumerians were responsible for that one

Bah!

I should equivocate and say "but to me, anything after 100 AD is Fairly Modern'... and that they weren't incredibly accurate (which is true) but I won't. en.wikipedia.org...

5th century BC seems to be the time when they made the charts: en.wikipedia.org...

...which, of course, puts them creating the concept of "degree" in the sky some 2,000 years after the pyramids were built and some 1,000 years plus before the Nazca lines were created.

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: dragonridrYour actually wrong about hours and why we have am and pm. The egyptiabs were credited with inventing the sun dial which they divided into 12 parts to match there numerical system base 12. The reason Am and PM simple the Egyptians could accurately measure the day but not the night. SO THEY DIFFERENTIATED THE TWO. This carried on through to today with am and pm.

The "Egyptiabs" were credited with inventing the sun dial, which was based on Mesopotamian time keeping

Here is the oldest sun dial from Egypt
www.livescience.com...
Which post dates the collapse of the Sumerian civilisation by about 1200 years

No egypts base 12 system had nothing to do with sumerians thus is just a convoluted belief.the reason is very similar to why the Greeks chose 10 so you can do math with your hands. Of course Greek is obvious 10 fingers right. Well egtptians counted to 12 on one hand. Four fingers each decided into three aections.Look at your fingers you have a 12 segments on your fingers☺

originally posted by: dragonridr

No egypts base 12 system had nothing to do with sumerians thus is just a convoluted belief.the reason is very similar to why the Greeks chose 10 so you can do math with your hands. Of course Greek is obvious 10 fingers right. Well egtptians counted to 12 on one hand. Four fingers each decided into three aections.Look at your fingers you have a 12 segments on your fingers☺

Egypt used a base 10 system
en.wikipedia.org...

Ancient Egyptian texts could be written in either hieroglyphs or in hieratic. In either representation the number system was always given in base 10.

Further evidence of the use of the base 10 number system can be found on the Narmer Macehead which depicts offerings of 400,000 oxen, 1,422,000 goats and 120,000 prisoners

The earliest records of dactylonomy (finger counting) go back to Islam, not Egypt
en.wikipedia.org...
There goes your argument

originally posted by: Byrd

I should equivocate and say "but to me, anything after 100 AD is Fairly Modern'

That recent ?
Anything after the foundation of Rome makes me itch

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
yer either stonewalling or just really being intentionally ignorant about what I'm saying. I am not making any claim other than pointing out what you are using as evidence has never been compared to the stonework in Giza or anywhere else for that matter so how can you claim you've proven that's how it was done? a method was shown that it can scratch and abrade granite that's it. there is no connection with Giza whatsoever. it's not my claim it is a fact there has never been a forensic comparison.

You want to see a forensic comparison, we get it.
But the fact that you haven't seen one in no way indicates that "there is no connection with Giza."

After all, obvious saw marks are seen all over Giza and clear evidence has been presented showing how granite (and other stones) can be sawn with copper and sand.

Just saying there''s no connection with Giza doesn't cut it. There is a clear connection for anyone with anything resembling an open mind.

Harte

so then why would anybody say that is how it was done? Again it's like convicting someone of murder just because they have fingerprints. Nobody took the time to see if they match but that's not important. the guy is human and has fingerprints- good enough for us! lol


a reply to: Harte

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
so then why would anybody say that is how it was done? Again it's like convicting someone of murder just because they have fingerprints. Nobody took the time to see if they match but that's not important. the guy is human and has fingerprints- good enough for us! lol


a reply to: Harte

Once before in this thread, I suggested you quote someone here stating that that is definitely the way it was done.

Like I've said twice before (this is the third time,) this method serves to show how it could have been done.

Nobody can say exactly how it was done without a time machine.

You home in on a forensic comparison of the two cuts. Have you looked for one? I don't know if a good anaysis has been made, and why should it have?

Stocks, again, tried to examine whether it could have been done that way at all, not that it was done that way, and he was successful in showing it could.

The action of rubbing abrasive back and forth or in a circular motion with copper saws has been shown to be successful in sawing granite. Exactly what metals they used, what abrasives they used, how they operated the saws, and (most importantly, IMO,) what sorts of jigs and guides they used with their tools is entirely speculative.

Harte

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: dragonridr

No egypts base 12 system had nothing to do with sumerians thus is just a convoluted belief.the reason is very similar to why the Greeks chose 10 so you can do math with your hands. Of course Greek is obvious 10 fingers right. Well egtptians counted to 12 on one hand. Four fingers each decided into three aections.Look at your fingers you have a 12 segments on your fingers☺

Egypt used a base 10 system
en.wikipedia.org...

Ancient Egyptian texts could be written in either hieroglyphs or in hieratic. In either representation the number system was always given in base 10.

Further evidence of the use of the base 10 number system can be found on the Narmer Macehead which depicts offerings of 400,000 oxen, 1,422,000 goats and 120,000 prisoners

The earliest records of dactylonomy (finger counting) go back to Islam, not Egypt
en.wikipedia.org...
There goes your argument

The change to base 10 occurred around 2700 bce we were discussing the origins of hours which is earlier.

Me personally I think 20 hr days would have been easier ☺

originally posted by: dragonridr

The change to base 10 occurred around 2700 bce we were discussing the origins of hours which is earlier.

No it didn't, the Narmer mace head dates from 3100BCE and demonstrates base 10
Your sun dial dates to 1500BCE, which is 1000 years after the collapse of Sumer
you are now making it up as you go along
I have supported all the claims I've made here with credible links,
you have just offered your incorrect opinion
Unless you can support your claims, then you're done here

ok fine. how about anything done on calculating the time it would take to do it that way (bamboo tech) compared with how many stones with these same type of cuts? even if we conservatively reduce the number of estimated stones cut in a number of methods by half there is no way the Giza pyramids could be done in the "accepted" timeframe. even if the had one day for each stone from quarry to placement it couldn't happen. that cuts your argument right off at the knees so really all yer details are moot.

a reply to: Harte

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
ok fine. how about anything done on calculating the time it would take to do it that way (bamboo tech) compared with how many stones with these same type of cuts? even if we conservatively reduce the number of estimated stones cut in a number of methods by half there is no way the Giza pyramids could be done in the "accepted" timeframe. even if the had one day for each stone from quarry to placement it couldn't happen. that cuts your argument right off at the knees so really all yer details are moot.

Where is your list or count of stones that had to be sawn in order to construct the Great Pyramid?

After all, "cut" applies to every stone, the VAST majority of which aren't even faced, much less sawn.

Harte

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
ok fine. how about anything done on calculating the time it would take to do it that way (bamboo tech) compared with how many stones with these same type of cuts? even if we conservatively reduce the number of estimated stones cut in a number of methods by half there is no way the Giza pyramids could be done in the "accepted" timeframe. even if the had one day for each stone from quarry to placement it couldn't happen. that cuts your argument right off at the knees so really all yer details are moot.

a reply to: Harte

Have you looked at the quarrying sites at Giza and Aswan? I was there in October, and it's clear that it was a huge operation involving thousands of men. While one person pecking away at a block of granite (or even limestone) would take an awfully long time to chop out a single block, thousands of people working on 400 or 500 blocks of stone simultaneously produces a pretty steady flow of stone out of the quarry. They had been quarrying stones for several hundred years before Giza and had the operation and transport already in place.

The slowest part, of course, is the first third of the pyramid. Each row requires fewer stones and is much quicker to put into place after the first row is laid down.

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
even if we conservatively reduce the number of estimated stones cut in a number of methods by half there is no way the Giza pyramids could be done in the "accepted" timeframe. even if the had one day for each stone from quarry to placement it couldn't happen.

Since you seem so sure, then I assume you've done a significant amount of calculations to arrive at your conclusion. Let's see them.

...Or are you just talking out your ass?

yer ignoring my question by focusing on something else now. it's called redirection, smoke and mirrors, shell game etc. Have any of the bamboo tech experimenters found out how long it takes one to cut through granite? not to mention the whole logistical nightmare it would be to do all that in twenty years with such perfection. not with sticks and stones no way you eggheads gloss over too much of the specifics it takes to systematically pump out consistent symmetry and control over tolerances necessary to wind up with what we have there. you can't smash an atom with a toaster oven.


a reply to: Harte

no I'm talkin out YER ass. do we really need to reinvent the wheel? here: 1+1=2

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
yer ignoring my question by focusing on something else now. it's called redirection, smoke and mirrors, shell game etc. Have any of the bamboo tech experimenters found out how long it takes one to cut through granite?

Absolutely. And I posted it for you right here in this thread.

originally posted by: bottleslingguynot to mention the whole logistical nightmare it would be to do all that in twenty years with such perfection. not with sticks and stones no way you eggheads gloss over too much of the specifics it takes to systematically pump out consistent symmetry and control over tolerances necessary to wind up with what we have there. you can't smash an atom with a toaster oven.

Again with the "symmetry and tolerances?"

When will you cite these symmetries and tolerances? After all, it's unfair to claim nobody has compared the modern experimental cuts to the (supposedly) far superior ancient ones involving "symmetry and tolerances" that aren't available for comparisons in the first place.

Harte