RF resonant cavity thruster (EM Thruster) pass initial vacuum tests for JSC Eagleworks!

a reply to: punkinworks10

No they do not have (rest) mass. But that is not really of interest here.

What I wanted you to answer is how they get their momentum. When looking at momentum conservation of the system you have to include the microwave source too.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bedlam

so you've got a thruster that can supposedly invoke virtual particles from the vacuum via proper tuning and resonance.

light that's going superluminal in the heart of the thruster.

and you want to make the resonating chamber a superconductor.

crazy bassplyr time:
the lights going superluminal because the device is digging a hole in the Dirac sea changing the density of space there to negative or something. in the return its generating virtual particles to kick it out of that hole and get back to homeostasis. change the resonator into a superconductor would turn the thing into turbo mode while extending that hole or bubble beyond the .......

.....you talking about possible mass reduction?

wait what if you rapidly rotate the superconductor at the same time? could that cause a decoupling? ....and some sweet chenkorev along the outside?

if so that thing wouldn't get to mars in 90 days it would get to the next solar system in 90 minutes.

Shhhh Shhhh!!! we cant give away the cow AND the milk can we? They just finally got permission to release this was all.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I wish I had the money to instigate an updated podkletnov experiment...this time with a rotating hollow superconductive cylinder.

originally posted by: Tajlakz
a reply to: BASSPLYR

I wish I had the money to instigate an updated podkletnov experiment...this time with a rotating hollow superconductive cylinder.

The bad thing is we already have this in space already that Bassplayer suggested.

a reply to: yuppa

I see it as a good thing.

just that we won't get to hear about it anytime soon.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: yuppa

I see it as a good thing.

just that we won't get to hear about it anytime soon.

Well yeah thats true. Still i WANT to ride on one of those.^^

Just hope they keep working at it....
Expanding, and upgrading....

Here is some interesting information about the thruster. . . .
I wonder if we could ever have cars that worked wwith this technology?


RF resonant cavity thruster Top # 10 Facts

a reply to: Bedlam

Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Ames Laboratory have discovered an unusual property of purple bronze that may point to new ways to achieve high temperature superconductivity.

While studying purple bronze, a molybdenum oxide, researchers discovered an unconventional charge density wave on its surface.

A charge density wave (CDW) is a state of matter where electrons bunch together in a repeating pattern, like a standing wave of surface of water. Superconductivity and charge density waves share a common origin, often co-exist, and can compete for dominance in certain materials.

Phys.org, July 22, 2016 - Newly discovered material property may lead to high temp superconductivity.

Here you go! Just rub some of this on the cone surface and see what happens! We may need to throw it into that graphene press and make it a 2D material (throw in some graphene flakes for the heck of it too!) first, then line the cone with it but hey, this science stuff is never easy! And when you get to space the ambient temp should cool it down to superconducting temps in a hurry! A 2-fer! Last one to Andromeda is a rotten egg!

In the thruster’s cavity microwaves interfere with each other and invariably some photons will also end up co-propagating with opposite phases. At the destructive interference electromagnetic fields cancel. However, the photons themselves do not vanish for nothing but continue in propagation. These photon pairs without net electromagnetic field do not reflect back from the metal walls but escape from the resonator. By this action momentum is lost from the cavity which, according to the conservation of momentum, gives rise to an equal and opposite reaction.

Source: Nexbigfuture.com, June 27, 2016 - Researchers propose EM drive propulsion from emission of paired photons.

Photon pairs? Hey BASSPLYR, look it uses light too! Is everything going to run on light and graphene? Well the whole idea reminds me of circling the black hole and trying to understand Hawking Radiation as black holes boil away at the end of Universe! And one would figure that some material other than copper would be used. And what I posted earlier was only a half joke--so yeah, lets use purple bronze!

The article made feel smart and stupid at the same time. Lots of words like "phase" and "pairs" but in the end that is their best guess. May as well say, "quantum dark-energy fluxions in the Dertimium" or some such. But I am feeling a little lazy today so not putting up much of a mental fight.

The scientists' findings depended on a few conditions: a cavity should have two atoms within it, and the resonance frequency of that cavity should be twice the frequency of a photon with the ability to boost either of these atoms to a higher-energy state. Under these conditions, two atoms could simultaneously absorb a single photon in the cavity at the same time, the scientists calculated. Each atom would take half of the photon's energy. The same would hold true with three atoms in a cavity that had a resonance frequency three times that of such a photon, and so on.

Livescience, Aug 2, 2016 - Virtual Light Particles May Boost Quantum Computing.

The article is about quantum computing but always on the look out for any insight into the EM drive. So, virtual particles in resonance cavity creating virtual particles out of the vacuum. They envision being able to have perfect entanglement should their computer model really work. So why not a cone shaped device? Push the excess out the back after reflecting back. Equal and opposite reaction pushes one through space.

Or am I off the mark?

His latest patent has just been made public, and describes a new thruster design that features a single flat superconducting plate on one end, with a uniquely shaped, non-conducting plate on the other.

He says this is necessary to minimise the internal Doppler shift - a change in frequency or wavelength of a wave for an observer moving relative to its source - and also keep manufacturing costs down.

ScienceAlert, Oct. 14, 2016 - The latest patent for the 'impossible' EM Drive has just been made public - and it’s wild.

International Business Times, Oct 12, 2016 - EmDrive: Roger Shawyer is patenting a new design for next-gen superconducting thruster.

Nextbigfuture, Oct. 17, 2016 - Superconducting EMDrive Patented.

So there you go. Mr. Shawyer keeps on upping his game and submitting more patents. The superconducting plate has been added and he is saying he is shooting for a ton of thrust!

Not bad for a thruster that is not supposed to work and violates Newton's 3rd law of motion.

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Not bad for a thruster that is not supposed to work and violates Newton's 3rd law of motion.

Let's see it working before the celebration starts.

If he'd made the thing and it worked, wouldn't you think he'd be showing off his wild, unambiguous success? Seen that yet? Me either. A ton of thrust would be sort of hard to miss. Or even, say, ten pounds.

originally posted by: Bedlam
I keep waiting for them to try it in a superconducting chamber. It'll be festive.

Bedlam,
I'm sure youve seen the latest patent filing for the device,with a super conducting back plate.
:edit after posting:
DOH, there it is two posts up

a reply to: punkinworks10

An invention need not be demonstrated to work for an application to be filed.
Actually, an invention need not be demonstrated to work for a patent to be granted.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: punkinworks10

An invention need not be demonstrated to work for an application to be filed.
Actually, an invention need not be demonstrated to work for a patent to be granted.

We will see when the peer reviewed paper by eagle works is published in Dec.

The post also included a line of text that was believed to be from the paper's abstract, which read: "Thrust data in mode shape TM212 at less than 8106 Torr environment, from forward, reverse and null tests suggests that the system is consistently performing with a thrust to power ratio of 1.2 +/- 0.1 mN/Kw ()".

EM drive paper coming in Dec.

a reply to: punkinworks10

We will see when the peer reviewed paper by eagle works is published in Dec.

Or, more accurately, when the results (if any) are duplicated.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

They envision being able to have perfect entanglement should their computer model really work.

This morning, while walking the dog(more like urban hiking actually, we did 7 miles) and listening to some classic british punk,
I had a thought on the same lines, what if the microwaves are generating an entangled particle from the drive plate itself.
This entangled particle being "ejected" from plate would satisfy the newtonian physics.
But I'm leaning to the idea that this device is generating a currently unknown physical concept, much like the early entanglement experiments.

a reply to: Phage

I think that is what the OP is about... they got results! Paper forth coming. And from NASA's Eagleworks no less.

This is not supposed to produce results. Yet it has. Very strange. Possible first steps towards a vacuum engine? You know, producing energy from the quantum foam itself? Maybe like punkinworks10 said, an extracted particle from the vacuum channeled through the resonant chamber. If that is the case, they could engineer a metamaterial (maybe just a 2D coating) tuned to the frequency to increase power. Kind of like how the SKA is coated in tuned materials.

Not counting chickens but I am keeping an eye on.

I have a feeling in an electric universe one can get plasma to do nice tricks in a vacuum

maybe a toroid will create mass from the void of electrons...idk

yep, need some mass to shoot out the back end of your jets.....get some!!!!!