It's time to wake up!

originally posted by: daskakik

Then again some people, like the OP and UniFinity, are referring to that nothing that eastern traditions go on and on about. In that case an exchange might be warrented.

It appears that the op and unifinity are looking for some thing special - some thing that they have heard of or experienced.
What I speak of is not an experience - it is not some thing that comes and goes - it is ever present but overlooked.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
It appears that the op and unifinity are looking for some thing special - some thing that they have heard of or experienced.
What I speak of is not an experience - it is not some thing that comes and goes - it is ever present but overlooked.

Agreed, but both views are based on the same teachings.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
It appears that the op and unifinity are looking for some thing special - some thing that they have heard of or experienced.
What I speak of is not an experience - it is not some thing that comes and goes - it is ever present but overlooked.

Agreed, but both views are based on the same teachings.

Any teaching will be teaching someone something to do to achieve nothing.
There is nowhere to go to get it but teachings imply that time is needed to get 'whatever' it is.
Non duality cannot be taught - and saying it is time to wake up implies that there is someone who needs to wake up.
There is already only wakefulness.

No one to teach - if there is teaching on how to become awake that misses the point - there is no one to awaken - there is just this - which is.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I get it and even agree with the logic to a point but, I don't agree that it is the ultimate truth.

When nothing is first glimpsed, when it is examined by the mind it becomes a thing - the mind cannot think about nothing so it might say it is bliss or happiness but it is neutral, zilch, zero - whereas prior to that nothingness there was thingness - things conflict, with two there can be fighting and defending - but nothingness cannot conflict so is sensed as peace, and words like 'bliss' or 'happiness' are given to it. When that feeling subsides and other sensations appear that underlying nothingness is forgotten and 'bliss' and 'happiness' are sought - as that is what the mind has determined is missing.
What is sought is the emptiness which is always here and when that emptiness is realized it will be filled completely with what is appearing here.
That emptiness can never be filled with ideas about what is missing and what needs to be obtained - that just confirms it's lack.

Every individual is avoiding the emptiness but realizing the emptiness/nothingness is the only way to feel wholeness.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Every individual is avoiding the emptiness but realizing the emptiness/nothingness is the only way to feel wholeness.

Like I said, up to that point.

Who says that that is the only way?

Who can prove that you want or even need wholeness?

sorry just can not resist myself and with such intriguing thoughts which you both are guilty of, I just had to ask this and replay yet again

itisnowagain: this just do not seem full understanding to me. But is only like a door to many other things - for instance they use that empty state of mind in mahamudra Tibetan school for basis for learning. This is just the first step for them. The key.
one of the best teaching for me personally, available on youtube. He is explaining this at the end of his talk:

www.youtube.com...

I would encourage to listen everything, but it is very long and only part one. Well for someone who is really interested it may bring many insights.

How would you explain miracles or spiritual powers than which all truly awakened one can preform. Do you think that all those teachings about prana and karma are not true or maybe important? Because to me the extent of this modern philosophy of advita vedanta is half-way - never telling stuff about that aspect of reality, which is one of the major things in eastern schools.

In any case, it is really interesting how come we have so various opinions about the same thing or more like nothing all over the world. I am most enjoying other opinions about this stuff. But please do not be offended because I say it is only half way. This applies for me and if you are sure about yourself, which you show you are by your writing, than you have nothing to be offended about. But I am very interesting in your thoughts anyway even if we defer in our understanding.

daskakik: you said something about putting others down. Sorry if you felt that way, it was never my intent in this thread. I only wanted to share what I have come across years of spirituality based on my own skin. Oh and I had to google zealotry and it certainly applies for me! But do not expect others to have my strength of faith but only to get them thinking and doing something to get first experience. As I have said, I only abide in myself. What others believe have no affect on me whatsoever and is of no importance.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Every individual is avoiding the emptiness but realizing the emptiness/nothingness is the only way to feel wholeness.

Like I said, up to that point.

Who says that that is the only way?

Who can prove that you want or even need wholeness?

Is there a better way?
No one can prove that there is a longing for wholeness.

originally posted by: UniFinity
daskakik: you said something about putting others down. Sorry if you felt that way, it was never my intent in this thread.

Well maybe it is the language barrier but saying that people are foolish, what they said is laughable and arrogant or that "foolish people who think they have gold but in truth only rocks" is putting others down.

Don't think that this means that I am offended in any way. I am not. I am only pointing out that you are doing this.

Oh and I had to google zealotry and it certainly applies for me! But do not expect others to have my strength of faith but only to get them thinking and doing something to get first experience. As I have said, I only abide in myself. What others believe have no affect on me whatsoever and is of no importance.

The problem with zealotry is that your strength of faith makes you think that you cannot be wrong and you say it is of no importance but it does seem to get to you.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Is there a better way?

Do you still beat your wife? (haver to love loaded questions)

The point was that it might not even be what is really being sought after so, even if that is the only way, it makes no difference.

No one can prove that there is a longing for wholeness.

And yet you said "What is sought is the emptiness" and "emptiness/nothingness is the only way to feel wholeness".

a reply to: daskakik

no it is not language barrier (but english is second language for me). I was to harsh or blunt. This is my thing which I need to work on, on better use of words to be nicer in real life and online it seems.

well I know I do not know. And this is one of the principles I tend to stick to. So I do not think that will comes into play for me because humbleness is one of the virtues I really value. But due to my strong faith I may come across that way. Will have to work this also

originally posted by: UniFinity
no it is not language barrier (but english is second language for me). I was to harsh or blunt. This is my thing which I need to work on, on better use of words to be nicer in real life and online it seems.

This is why I pointed out the idea of zealotry. It is what makes it easy to be harsh.

well I know I do not know. And this is one of the principles I tend to stick to. So I do not think that will comes into play for me because humbleness is one of the virtues I really value. But due to my strong faith I may come across that way. Will have to work this also

My experience with this is that one starts out knowing that they don't know, then they experience something and feel that they now know and they will try to share what they know.

When someone really knows, they realize that there is no way to share that and that it really makes no difference so they stop trying to tell people that "It's time to wake up!"

No one would actually look for nothing but some thing seems to be missing, that is why people do meditation, that is why people have therapy, that is why people buy things they can't afford.
No one would believe that it is nothing that is missed - a thing can only look at things and for things.
Until nothing is realized, seeking for something will happen.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Until nothing is realized, seeking for something will happen.

Seems like you saught to dodge the inconvenient fact that I posted.

They are your words, own up to them.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Until nothing is realized, seeking for something will happen.

Seem like you saught to dodge the inconvenient fact that I posted.

They are your words, own up to them.

I am sorry I don't understand what you are pointing to - could you elaborate please?
Oh - I cannot prove anything - it was written but I cannot prove it.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
I am sorry I don't understand what you are pointing to - could you elaborate please?

And yet you said "What is sought is the emptiness" and "emptiness/nothingness is the only way to feel wholeness".

The words in quotes are what you posted. They are your words.

well if you are true to a fault about spirituality, than things such as pride or arrogance and anything even remotely like it are far far away from you, the same should go for all vices. If not then ego is in the way and it only shows one has to work on about what they teach.

originally posted by: UniFinity
well if you are true to a fault about spirituality, than things such as pride or arrogance and anything even remotely like it are far far away from you, the same should go for all vices. If not then ego is in the way and it only shows one has much to work on about what they teach.

That is where you are confusing things. One does not necesarily have to do with the other.

Have you ever heard of Nisargadatta Maharaj. That guru loved his tobacco.

a reply to: daskakik

yes, I have read about his philosophy and it is something which is very intriguing for me. His talks about non-duality are wonderful and his teachings were unique and sometimes even very heated debates would transpire in his home. He was supposedly were direct and confrontational.

I like especially the book of his master - The master of self-realization, it is one of my favourites books.

he sure smoked Tobacco, but do you think it was like a desire for him which he could not control?
At least I think he could stopped any time if he wanted or if he was any day out of money to buy tobacco, he probably was not stressed about it like others who smokes.

But yes, this was a thing which was slight issue for me personally about him. But I don't doubt that with his understanding of himself his habit was really just out of an enjoyment and not desire.

It all depends how you look at things that you do, regarding intent and motivation, because there are no bad or good things from his point of view.
At least that is my reasoning, what do you think?

originally posted by: UniFinity


he sure smoked Tobacco, but do you think it was like a desire for him which he could not control?

To realize your true nature is to realize that you have NO CONTROL over any action. You are the witness of all that is arising.
What thoughts arise when watching and hearing this video?

'No matter what arises, you are only the witness, the mere witness - not an identity, not an actor - mere witness - consciousness itself'. Adi Da Samraj.