How Do We Save the Worker? Jesse Ventura Takes on America's Wage Crisis

a reply to: SkepticOverlord


People that have good jobs have to pay for their babies, people without jobs get their babies paid for.
That's why I have one kid and one of my cousin has four kids, she's never had a job at age 25!
Working don't pay, so to speak...

We could always pay entertainers less...I guess the only question for this would be whether or not politicians should be included as 'entertainment' at this point.

Free market? Bah, what a joke. Tell that to a dairy farmer who wants to sell whole milk, or a maple sugar collector who wants to sell what he collects. Politics- the worlds Ponzi scheme/ protection racket. Looks like it is true, you can't worship mammon and the Lord at the same time.

a reply to: peck420

Isn't it funny that CEOs who run global companies with tens if not hundreds of thousands of employees make too much money, but these same progressives never have anything to say about an actor or athlete making $20 million or more per year.

CEOs don't benefit anyone? I guess keeping that stock price high so your 401k or pension has a decent return isn't a benefit? Properly managing the company so it can stay in business and continue to provide jobs isn't a benefit? A company that provides services and products that makes your life easier isn't a benefit?

Wages are low for several reasons. First we have both RINOs and Democrats importing cheap labor. This has the effect of removing the stepping stone jobs that would be beneficial for the least skilled.

Second, liberals have decimated our public education system to the point that the least educated are basically worthless to society. Not only can these people not read and write, they also have zero vocational skills. All they can do is leech off the productive. It used to be anyone who could do basic math and stay out of trouble could find a factory job or learn a trade. However, globalization has shipped a lot of those low skilled jobs overseas. In addition, technology is making it harder and harder for those with no skills to even get an entry level job.

Raising the minimum wage will just cause inflation because it raises the wages of everyone else and thus will not help anyone get out of poverty. Wages are function of supply and demand. Nothing more. The more in demand your skill and the lower the supply of available workers with that skill, the more money you make.

Jesse Ventura is just a better looking Alex Jones. Enjoy your bread and circus.

originally posted by: hurdygurdy
Wages should be commensurate with how much the job benefits society. Elder care and child care workers earn very low wages yet where would society be without those angels of compassion. CEOs, politicians, doctors (who don't heal), lawyers, professional athletes, et el, earn premium wages while providing little benefit to anyone but themselves.

This kind of idea is completely impractical. Wages are paid based on supply and demand. When talent an in demand talent is in short supply wages go up. Take for instance a .300 hitter in baseball. People that can hit .300 are in short supply so his services will be bid up on the free agent market.

Your pie in the sky perspective simply shows your ignorance to the basic factors of economics and how supply and demand as well as scarcity affects costs and salary.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Drinking
Because society needs janitors and cashiers much more than it needs more PHD degrees.

No one is suggesting a PhD.

Right now, news about corporate recruiters having a hard time finding qualified (educated) candidates for entry-level corporate jobs in tech startups, media, advertising, etc. is not difficult to find. It's a growing problem across corporate America -- a lack of candidates.

If the people doing them can't earn enough to live, education is not going to change that.

I'm going to be unfashionably harsh here: if you're unable to attain employment beyond minimum wage jobs, then you should not be starting a family.

But those offices still need janitors, and people working the restraunt, and gas station.

Terry works at the local gas station, he gets a degree, and gets a tech job, education helped Terry.

Now Mike works Terry's old job.

See how that works.

The job is still there and pays crap.

Even if we educate everyone to their potential, gasstation jobs aren't going away, it is a necessity.

Dishwashers in restraunts aren't going to get educated out of being needed.

The idea isn't to lift Terry out of poverty so Mike can be in poverty.

The idea is to lift Terry and Mike out of poverty.

Only way for that to happen is more pay or more spending power from their pay.

But think about the effects of doing this.

Just from the business side, $12 a gallon gas to pay Terry and Mike $15 an hour seems like a bad idea.

Because then all that we really did, is not lift Terry and Mike out of poverty, we just brought everyone else down closer to it.

I don't think there is a good fix for this with our current economic model.

Raising the minimum wage doesn't lift those at the MW up, it just forces those above it down.

If I make $15 an hour, and you make $7.50 and they raise the MW to $15 im now at poverty level where I was at double it before.

Didn't really do anything but cause inflation.

I think we need to change economic models completely.

Or just unrig this one, it is pretty well fixed these days.

" work hard make the right choices and you can succeed " is no longer true for many

I don't have the answers to this problem, and I think expanding education and making it cheaper is a great idea! But it will fix nothing.

The gasstation job will still be there, it will still pay crap, and no matter how many Terry's or mikes get a degree, that won't change. There are always more Terry's and mikes out there that prefer being poor to not eating. So they take the crap paying job until they hopefully find something better at some point.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: JesseVentura

Jesse Ventura: "If you work a 40 hour work week, you should not be subsidized by the government, no matter what you do."

So, an unskilled person, with limited education, should make the same (or nearly the same) as an educated pencil pusher (to use your words)?


Jesse Ventura: "Raise the minimum wage, and lower the maximum wage, and you might find utopia."

---groan---

So let's remove incentives for working hard at an education to achieve a higher level of income, and reward the uninspired with a "living wage" at the expense of private industry.

While I tend to lean liberal in many social policies, such a statement is beyond liberal and well into the intensely socialist.


We don't have a wage problem in this country.

I'll say it again: we don't have a wage problem in this country.

We have an education problem.


If people are getting married, having families, and can't find the job that earns enough to support their family, it's not society's responsibility to pay them more. It's society's responsibility to ensure they're educated for the job that can support their family.

This problem won't be solved by raising the minimum wage. The result would be a tickle-up, requiring all wages to go up, and the new normal will be no different than it is now.

The only solution is education. But politicians wanting to raise the minimum wage plays better, and gets cheers from doe-eyed young liberals looking for quick fixes.

You are half right, the problem being is that somebody has to do the jobs no one wants to do, regardless of educating everyone!

What Jessie is trying to say is that the minimum wage should be enough to sustain a living and not receive handouts, which is logical when them handouts come from the tax payer pocket.

originally posted by: Drinking
But those offices still need janitors, and people working the restaurant, and gas station.

How many of these jobs do you foresee in 5 years? 10 years? 20?

SO is 100% correct.

originally posted by: muSSang
You are half right, the problem being is that somebody has to do the jobs no one wants to do, regardless of educating everyone! What Jessie is trying to say is that the minimum wage should be enough to sustain a living and not receive handouts, which is logical when them handouts come from the tax payer pocket.

The problem with minimum wage increases is that it does not solve the problem. It temporarily masks it.

SO's suggestion is an actual solution. Yes, it will be difficult, and there will be many growing pains along the way, but we are already at the point where the masks are sliding off. Best try to start addressing the problem.

Start bringing the millions of outsourced jobs back to USA would be a start and at an acceptable wage. I used to work for a great company. One of the many good paying companies years ago. They have closed a lot of factories in the past 15 years. Now I believe most of their workforce is outside of the country. There needs to be a change in the mindset of the CEOs and top executives. It seems that nowadays the worker just feels like they have a target on their backs. The execs only thought is lowering wages and producing a cheaper product. Which results in an inferior product. Downward spiral. Just a few years ago they had a layoff. People were making around $25/hr. But when they were called to return they were offered around half that. Of course many never returned. How could they? This company was once the envy of the US workforce.

a reply to: TamtammyMacx
The primary mindset that requires changing is....the consumer's.

Don't come to me demanding a 'more cost effective product', than complain when I do what is required to satisfy your wants a long side my 'bosses' (shareholders).

There will be no change until the average consumer recognizes their place in the economic system, and the powers/responsibilities that coincide with it. Granted...a highly educated population would be an excellent first step in remedying that conundrum.

a reply to: Edumakated



Applause if I could.

originally posted by: muSSang

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: JesseVentura

Jesse Ventura: "If you work a 40 hour work week, you should not be subsidized by the government, no matter what you do."

So, an unskilled person, with limited education, should make the same (or nearly the same) as an educated pencil pusher (to use your words)?


Jesse Ventura: "Raise the minimum wage, and lower the maximum wage, and you might find utopia."

---groan---

So let's remove incentives for working hard at an education to achieve a higher level of income, and reward the uninspired with a "living wage" at the expense of private industry.

While I tend to lean liberal in many social policies, such a statement is beyond liberal and well into the intensely socialist.


We don't have a wage problem in this country.

I'll say it again: we don't have a wage problem in this country.

We have an education problem.


If people are getting married, having families, and can't find the job that earns enough to support their family, it's not society's responsibility to pay them more. It's society's responsibility to ensure they're educated for the job that can support their family.

This problem won't be solved by raising the minimum wage. The result would be a tickle-up, requiring all wages to go up, and the new normal will be no different than it is now.

The only solution is education. But politicians wanting to raise the minimum wage plays better, and gets cheers from doe-eyed young liberals looking for quick fixes.

You are half right, the problem being is that somebody has to do the jobs no one wants to do, regardless of educating everyone!

What Jessie is trying to say is that the minimum wage should be enough to sustain a living and not receive handouts, which is logical when them handouts come from the tax payer pocket.

I agree with you, but how do you that?

See all prices are set at current levels for a reason.

Wages have either been flat or fallen in every unskilled field for decades now.

As inflation has happened it took what was once a comfortable living and made it poverty now.

15 years ago I had a nice townhouse. The rent was $650 US a month.

Today the same place is like $1200 .

The local store still pays the same amount$8 an hour.

Because wages can't rise in a cheap labor glut.

This is a problem that has been building for decades now.

We aren't deporting all the illegals, everyone knows that.

We aren't going to close the boarder to stop millions more from coming.

We arent going to end the free trade deals that shipped millions of jobs over seas.

In short, we aren't going to do a thing to fix it.

Because TPTB like it this way.

Why do you think they caused it?

It was obvious NAFTA was going to gut the middle class.

They still did it.

And every other deal sense.

With all the factories gone, construction was still good and strong.

So they let in and encouraged millions of illegal immigrants.

Now the TPP is gonna finish us off.

One day it will be nothing but hotels etc, all service industry stuff for the wealthy, because only they will have any disposable income.

It's all band-aids to a flawed system, folks.

Raising the wages of everyone on the lower 2/3rds of the income scale, will not do anything but raise the costs of goods to supplement the increased wages.

Putting a cap on wages takes away incentives to invent, create, or do anything really, besides just "collect a paycheck".

Both are band-aids.

The question is WHY do things cost so much? WHY do the price of PRODUCTS go up, when the wages are not keeping up with the Cost of Living.

WHAT is going on to have things stagnate so badly?

If you look at the entire financial system, it's a flawed problem. It's growth is dependent on DEBT.

So no amount of Band-aids i.e. wage increases, subsidizing the families with free money, etc. Will do anything BUT cause more stress on the system else-where.

It is designed to collect things for those at the top, and strip it from the bottom.

It is designed to do this, by the creators. You cannot fix something that is fundamentally DESIGNED to fail.

It is designed to make us all slaves to it.

My apologies Jesse, as nice as it is of you to put forth ideas on how to fix things, but at this point.. There is no way of fixing this mess.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I think we have an entitlement crisis in this country, not a wage crises. People expect to start at a higher pay wage and there is virtually no "starting" position. They don't want to work for the wage, they just expect it paid from day one.

We've become a lazy, entitled, excuse making society.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: Drinking
But those offices still need janitors, and people working the restaurant, and gas station.

How many of these jobs do you foresee in 5 years? 10 years? 20?

SO is 100% correct.

Until some kind of irobot future where we have robots everywhere, lawns need mowed, tires need changed, the trash needs taken out etc

Maybe in the future people won't need other people to do these things, and they will stop paying them to do them.

But for a long time from now, generations of people longer, they are going to need people to perform certain tasks that usually don't pay well.

Sure there will be a growing technology industry.

But everyone can't be an IT guy, or a banker etc

So what if you make more IT guys, what about everyone else?

Just because you aren't a doctor or lawyer or IT professional doesn't mean you should live in poverty in America after you work all week.

Just because they work at Walmart doesn't mean they aren't performing and essential function for society in some capacity.

Society is a giant machine with many parts. Yes some parts a more important than others.

But they all play their parts in keeping it running.

I don't know how to fix it, but education is not going to change anything for most of the jobs in the country.

Jobs exist to perform a task of one type or another for a fee.

Not because people get an education.

Burger King isn't going away, I don't care how much education you have, they are only paying you the same thing the guy who dropped out of highschool gets.

That is the problem.

Most of the available jobs are not high paying.

Hence so many poor people.

If you had a mandatory degree program where after highschool a 2 year degree was mandatory for everyone, and everyone had a degree.

How much does your office pay janitors?

How much does McDonalds pay?

How about most hotels or gasstations or any of the majority of jobs in America?

Education does not equal achievement in a game with too many players and too few good paying jobs.

originally posted by: Cygnis
It's all band-aids to a flawed system, folks.

Raising the wages of everyone on the lower 2/3rds of the income scale, will not do anything but raise the costs of goods to supplement the increased wages.

Putting a cap on wages takes away incentives to invent, create, or do anything really, besides just "collect a paycheck".

Both are band-aids.

The question is WHY do things cost so much? WHY do the price of PRODUCTS go up, when the wages are not keeping up with the Cost of Living.

WHAT is going on to have things stagnate so badly?

If you look at the entire financial system, it's a flawed problem. It's growth is dependent on DEBT.

So no amount of Band-aids i.e. wage increases, subsidizing the families with free money, etc. Will do anything BUT cause more stress on the system else-where.

It is designed to collect things for those at the top, and strip it from the bottom.

It is designed to do this, by the creators. You cannot fix something that is fundamentally DESIGNED to fail.

It is designed to make us all slaves to it.

My apologies Jesse, as nice as it is of you to put forth ideas on how to fix things, but at this point.. There is no way of fixing this mess.

Yup

I just think the whole thing is broken.

Scrap create a better one.

originally posted by: Drinking
Until some kind of irobot future where we have robots everywhere, lawns need mowed, tires need changed, the trash needs taken out etc

Maybe in the future people won't need other people to do these things, and they will stop paying them to do them.

But for a long time from now, generations of people longer, they are going to need people to perform certain tasks that usually don't pay well.

You have 20 years to get yourself educated. That is a warning. I have not had a janitor for my residence or my business for 2 years already. Their duties have been minimized (by robots) to the point that their services are already not required.

I have zero sympathy for anybody that does not have themselves ready within that time frame, or less.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: Drinking
Until some kind of irobot future where we have robots everywhere, lawns need mowed, tires need changed, the trash needs taken out etc

Maybe in the future people won't need other people to do these things, and they will stop paying them to do them.

But for a long time from now, generations of people longer, they are going to need people to perform certain tasks that usually don't pay well.

You have 20 years to get yourself educated. That is a warning. I have not had a janitor for my residence or my business for 2 years already. Their duties have been minimized (by robots) to the point that their services are already not required.

I have zero sympathy for anybody that does not have themselves ready within that time frame, or less.

And then what happens?

We still have too few good paying jobs.

Still too many people on the brink of homelessness and or starvation.

It will not stop poverty.