So, I was in High School when Iran-Contra Happened..

My memory of this was spotty. I only recalled that arms were traded for the return of American hostages. Before today and still, I believe only the person in control of making that decision can make it. Whether the idea is that one must never do that as it encourages terrorists or that the US tells other countries to never do it, that part of it...if it were that simple I would forgive such a trade. I, myself have never been in such a position, so I can't fault someone for trading arms for hostages.

Though it was in an odd way. Israel, of all countries, gave the arms and were reimbursed with the same arms by the US. That should be in a "Strange But True" magazine, but it is true.

I found the movie "Kill the Messenger" tonight. Featurette I did know something about Central America was involved (please forgive my ignorance), but did not know the extent.

In the first 20 minutes or so, I think I broke down. I was just crying. We speak of these things all the time on here, but this was just, I don't know, different. And then I looked at the wiki for the incident, though it is scarce on the 'contra' part. Wikipedia

I am not naive to the fact that our government does some shady stuff and Syria is probably a proxy war between the US and Russia..but one thing hit me like a brick. That our government caused the crack epidemic. I would say caused crack babies. Doctors until the late 60s/early 70s didn't even think alcohol crossed the blood/brain barrier, how would one expect a poverty stricken, crack-addicted 17 year old pregnant girl to really know she was hurting her baby in 1983?

The most astounding fact from the wiki is this : "In Poindexter's hometown of Odon, Indiana, a street was renamed to John Poindexter Street. Bill Breeden, a former minister, stole the street's sign in protest of the Iran–Contra affair. He claimed that he was holding it for a ransom of $30 million, in reference to the amount of money given to Iran to transfer to the Contras. He was later arrested and confined to prison, making him, as satirically noted by Howard Zinn, "the only person to be imprisoned as a result of the Iran–Contra Scandal".[94]"

Even as a life-long conspiracy theorist, the thing that I missed the details of took my last shred of innocence in regard to our government.
This will not be new to many of you. But it is new to me and I am digesting it.

I never got why Regan is put on a pedastool.

After some of the crap he pulled he should be down there with Bush, Obama and Johnson.

I think at this point calling it "our government" is counter intuitive. America for all its potential is now, and may always have been a guinea pig. For a very long time new ideas and concepts have been introduced to society via the American corridors. Who's strategical decsion was it for America to hold off during WWII?

Even more curious is the coup in Russia with Stalin taking power and cleansing the Russian military and government from any notion of love for the old Czar. Wasn't Stalin living in America before all that took place? How did he get from America to Russia, oust the existing ruler, slaughter all loyalists and create the Communist party?

I think those who really call the shots see everything very differently. They are the natural inheritors of the world and its resources. We are a tool of harvesting those natural resources in the like and manner they so choose. Every war from World Wars to Revolutions, from uprisings to terrorist attacks are coordinated at the highest levels to keep the cycles going.

Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is power.

originally posted by: reldra
the thing that I missed the details of took my last shred of innocence in regard to our government

It gets better.

There's stuff that goes on you really don't want to know about. It can sorta...loop around to the point that it's so over the top it becomes amusing in a Kafka-esque sort of way.

a reply to: Bedlam

You mean kind of like spending 1000 years coming to the realization you are the moon only to have aliens landing on you at that moment with tactical nuclear warheads?

a reply to: Rosinitiate

The only group that has had a position in world dominance is the Jesuits .They have never ceased to operate close to the centres of power and have had a vast network . They become Protestants , as well as any other group to infiltrate and work from a fifth column . They fight both sides of the battles so when one side wins ,they are still there .Their motto is the end justifies the means . They were the first ones to infiltrate the North American Tribes and worked to bring about the artificial countries of Canada ,USA,Australia and New Zeland .

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Even more curious is the coup in Russia with Stalin taking power and cleansing the Russian military and government from any notion of love for the old Czar. Wasn't Stalin living in America before all that took place? How did he get from America to Russia, oust the existing ruler, slaughter all loyalists and create the Communist party?

None of this happened.
Stalin was not living in America at the time of the Russian revolution.
It was Lenin, not Stalin, who was leading the Communist party at the time of the revolution.
The Communist party did not overthrow the Czar. Their coup was overthrowing the republican revolution which had already overthrown the Czar. Their approach was to nullify the power of existing government by using the local workers' committees called "soviets".
The Russian army (below officer level) had already lost most of its love for the Czar, which is why the revolution was possible in the first place.
As for "travelling from America to Russia", it's possible that you are thinking of the famous episode of the "sealed train", but that was Lenin. The Germans allowed Lenin to travel through Germany from Switzerland to Scandinavia, so that he could re-enter Russia from that direction.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: reldra
the thing that I missed the details of took my last shred of innocence in regard to our government

It gets better.

There's stuff that goes on you really don't want to know about. It can sorta...loop around to the point that it's so over the top it becomes amusing in a Kafka-esque sort of way.

I have, over the years, come to a similar conclusion. Why I missed the details of this topic, I am not sure. In the end of the movie, is says something about the Clinton/Lewinsky thing distracting people. That long ago, I was probably distracted too. I am not so much anymore.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
a reply to: Bedlam

You mean kind of like spending 1000 years coming to the realization you are the moon only to have aliens landing on you at that moment with tactical nuclear warheads?

More along the line of the OP. It can get you shaking your head at times.

Every day, our top political leaders [ and I use that term very loosely ] commit acts that would get you or I shot on sight or life in prison. Never forget, It is not about serving the people. It is about money, control and power. The biggest lie ever told was "I'm from the government, I'm here to help"

a reply to: DISRAELI

So Lenin than Stalin? I'll have to look it up. And where does Trotsky (sic?) fall in to place?

Star for you! I hope mods were kind enough to offer an applause. Thanks for the clarification.

a reply to: Rosinitiate
Stalin and Trotsky were competitors in the collective leadership which followed Lenin's death.
Trotsky was a master of revolutionary skills, and Stalin was a master of bureaucratic skills.
The revolutionary skills gave the party control over Russia, but the skills in bureaucratic in-fighting gave Stalin control over the party.
Trotsky was driven into exile, and then assassinated in exile.

(And yes, they did, thank you).

a reply to: crazyewok

I never got why Regan is put on a pedastool.

That's an easy one to figure out. He was put on a pedestal because thanks to the tax breaks he gave to the elite he enabled them to steal the rest of America.

Iran Contra is even more complex than the featurette will disclose and is even still linked to now. A website that is excellent for good reporting and information is madcowprod.com. The books Barry and the boys and Terrorland are excellent. Information Daniel Hopsicker has will blow your mind. Things are so interwoven a small post could never cover it all. Let's just say nothing changed by exposing Iran Contra and nothng stopped. The Bush family, Clinton who was rewarded with the Presidency for looking the other way, CIA black ops. All there.

a reply to: drifter1109

Let's just say nothing changed by exposing Iran Contra

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Even more curious is the coup in Russia with Stalin taking power and cleansing the Russian military and government from any notion of love for the old Czar. Wasn't Stalin living in America before all that took place? How did he get from America to Russia, oust the existing ruler, slaughter all loyalists and create the Communist party?

None of this happened.
Stalin was not living in America at the time of the Russian revolution.
It was Lenin, not Stalin, who was leading the Communist party at the time of the revolution.
The Communist party did not overthrow the Czar. Their coup was overthrowing the republican revolution which had already overthrown the Czar. Their approach was to nullify the power of existing government by using the local workers' committees called "soviets".
The Russian army (below officer level) had already lost most of its love for the Czar, which is why the revolution was possible in the first place.
As for "travelling from America to Russia", it's possible that you are thinking of the famous episode of the "sealed train", but that was Lenin. The Germans allowed Lenin to travel through Germany from Switzerland to Scandinavia, so that he could re-enter Russia from that direction.

Excellent post. Glad to see other members looking in to history and sharing it, when appropriate.

a reply to: Bedlam

Sometimes I think US foreign policy these days is less walk softly and carry a big stick and more carry a big stick and flail around blindly with it and hope for the best.....