Question? Are we ALL being " Radicalized " ?

I read most of the new posts that come up on ATS, some I just skim, others I revisit, I don't often comment, and hardly ever start a thread. But lately the hysteria I see coming through in the current events topics have made me feel alarmed, disturbed and often offended. There is no doubt in my mind that we are living through dangerous times because of the volatile situations in the ME and of course because of the involvement of the big players. I think that irrespective of what our concerns are and no matter what angle we are viewing this from, we are unlikely to have any control on the outcome.

The " War on Terror " was and is a major marketing strategy. TPTB have mercilessly targeted us on a global scale for decades now and it does not show any signs of stopping.

They (TPTB) bombard us daily with images, news stories, debates, all of it propaganda. Any successful marketing campaign is smoke and mirrors. If you have something to " sell " and are not sure that your target market will " buy " it, then the only way to succeed is to convince them they " need " your product.

So how do they sell us on the " War on Terror "? obviously , they make us terrified. They give us a big bad bogey-man. Which judging by a lot of threads lately, is All Muslims. Whether they are fundamental or not, makes no difference. I conclude this because lately, with the attacks, in US, Sweden, Germany and most recently Belgium, the minute the story breaks on a thread, you can set a timer for the first post that will appear with any combination of " radicalized / Muslim / refugee / IS / terrorist / Islam "

Does this kneejerk reaction not ring some bells ? Are we beingRadicalizedto believe that anything bad that happens is always going to be perpetrated by an extremist for their religious beliefs ? Of course psychopaths come from all walks of life, all religions, all races. But it seems to me that these days, people are falling into the exact " marketing box " that TPTB have placed us in.

I seriously doubt that 30 or 40 years ago, when we first heard the news about a " lone wolf " attack, everyone immediately concluded that it must be attributable to radicalized / Muslim / refugee / IS / terrorist / Islam, and yes, I know, after 9/11 the world changed. That was the tagline.

Radicalization is defined as .. Radicalize: Cause (someone) to adopt radical positions on political or social issues

I have read a few articles lately, mainly from US sources, talking about preemptive measures being taken to inter people who may be at risk of being radicalized?? Isn't that anyone and everyone? This is " Minority Report " style measures.. surely.

So in my opinion, humble as it is, We are ALL being radicalized, every day, one news report at a time.


www.theguardian.com...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

www.quora.com... se-characteristics

So you are saying that we are being radicalized to be against Islam? That could be the case. Some people are against Christian religious extremists as well. Is there a plan to do away with religion?

None of the links you provided are working?

I don't know the answers to your questions. I am in a country that is very careful not to broadcast much in the way of this "war on terror". The concern about it is present, but it is somewhat taboo to talk of it outloud.


I get hints of what is being spread in some other western countries, from people here, and some of what I get from my american family. It seems rather extreme- in both directions. I perceive people who feel all muslims are evil and dangerous, and others who are sure that all muslims are not, and that that all info about conflicts elsewhere is nonsense and false propaganda.

This polarization is extremely hard not to get pulled into. My opinion is somewhere in between, and I get both sides, when in a discussion, accusing me of being with the opposite camp. The radicalization may be happening, yes, but not just in one direction. Extremes give birth to their opposite extremes.

What I often find myself wondering at night is - why are Americans so concerned about their country being invaded and taken over by Islam? There are indications of something close to that happening elsewhere in the world, but not on their soil. Why the focus on it happening in Europe?


Is it because this prepares a platform from which certain political issues can be pushed forward?
Like- universal medicine: see, they have it over there- that's why they are being invaded!
Gun control- they have it over there - that's why they're being invaded!
They spend more on social welfare, less on military - that's why they're being invaded!

There are much different influences at work over here which impact what's happening, but these are unknown to much of the american public, they are not being revealed in mass media.

I believe we are! I will never get the photo out of my mind of the day when Lee Rigby was killed and his murderer stood there with a meat cleaver covered in blood. Then the constant flow of videos made by ISIS showing beheadings and other barbaric acts (I have never seen those videos and nor would I want to do I can only just cope with the images my own mind plays out).

I worked in Manchester when the IRA bomb went off and had to be allowed into work through a cordoned off area to collect some important papers. Manchester was eerie that day as I drove on to the outskirts of Manchester it was silent but window after windows had been blown through. When I got into my office where I normally sat didn't exist anymore and the lift had been blown out of the shaft. However, I never felt the fear I feel now. If a bomb went off in that area it was instantly connected to the IRA because that was the prominent terrorist organisation of that time, much like Islamic groups are now. The difference with the IRA they gave warning, I kind of knew what their political motives were, there was room for negotiation. There is no negotiations with the Islamic terrorists they just want you to convert or die.

In UK its not just the things that have happened (which are bad enough) its the plots that are being foiled daily by our intelligence. Anyone is a target and it could happen at any time such as on the train in Paris, just normal people going about their normal business.

In fairness as well I don't just think every attack is islamic. Last week at the school in Sweden when I saw it was a refuge area I said straight away it sounded like a far right fanatic. These days it usually is one or the other, I don't really hear of many other such attacks (that is of course here in Europe), in USA you have lots of crazy random attacks. Usually in Europe and UK anyone carrying a weapon is usually a fanatic of one description or another to even have access to a gun, explosives.

Although I have a fear of Islamic terrorists I don't view every British muslim as a danger to me, far from it, I have muslim friends. I know many muslims are just as frightened by the Islamic ideology as I am. I also know many muslims integrate fully into British life, the young girls out at theme parks, the cinema etc.

If I see someone in a Burqua I am more wary and that is just being honest. a reply to: cosmickat

a reply to: darkbake

yes, that is the main gist of it. We hear about kids being radicalized constantly now, and my angle was, well aren't we all being radicalized ? The MSM is continually trying to sway public opinion to meet certain agendas, I doubt anyone would deny that. Our buzzword of the day , " radicalize " ... but who is doing it to who, and why?

a reply to: cosmickat

Yes, but (for me) not in a way that you think. You see, I have an extreme view where I do not wish harm upon any peace loving person.

My attention and focus is anti-establishment, anti-big government, anti-alphabet agencies, anti-banksters, anti-corporate oligarchies, anti-dynastic political and elitist bloodlines, anti-United Nations and anti-propaganda.

Because they cause all wars, mass deaths, hatreds and divisions among peace loving folks - pitting us against each other because a divided community is easy to manipulate and control. There is one goal that the aformentioned entities all share - a profound desire to ensure humanity does not unite lest we become truly free of tyranny and destroy that which they have spent hundreds of years setting the foundations of.

The global elite bloodlines want a New World Order where they, the 0.1% totally control every facet of the existence of the 99.9% where they can live a life of unfathomable luxury whilst the rest of us fight over (and provide the labour for) the crumbs they spill on the floor.

I find it totally paradoxical that "terrorists" kill innocent peace loving citizens so that governments are forced to take freedoms away "to protect us" - real terrorists would target bankers, career government politicians, the super rich, media moguls and would protect innocents - but it's always the other way around and this should raise alarm bells - therefore, imo, the government (all governments) ARE the terrorists...keeping us in fear of the bogeyman that they create so that they can continue to erode freedoms until we are in a total surveillance state relying solely on government for food, water, shelter and everything else necessary to sustain a living on this god foresaken rock.

a reply to: Bluesma

thank you, tried to fix the links I had.
And yes, I do believe that this happens on both " sides " too. Much of what I have been exposed to though is one-sided. And the internet is a wonderful tool for seeing things form different angles. I do think though that the paranoid frenzy that seems to be happening within US and now Western Europe is being agitated by MSM and does have a political agenda attached.

That is so true, I've heard so many say over the years why do fanatics always go after the normal person on the street, the person who just wants to live their life in a peaceful way surrounded by family and loved ones. They never seem to go after the Politicians etc. The only organisation that did was the IRA. They went after politicians in London but the majority of their bombs killed innocent people, children even.a reply to: Sublimecraft

I think part of the fear is legitimate. There is a doctrine of Islamic extremism that exists. The honest question is whether this is all religious based or if there are geopolitical attributes that help push that form of fundamentalism further into the extreme. I believe that question is ignored because it implies fault towards the policy of the west.

Thus leading into my second point.

There is a lot of money to be made within the defense and energy industry. If you include mineral extraction and the Poppy production, we're talking about trillions of dollars that span across multiple platforms. Now I wouldn't go as far as saying there's some mass collusion, however, I tend to think we, as humans, lean towards justifying our actions if there are sizable benefits to be had. Regardless of how nefarious the outcomes are on the outside edges.

Point being, is that in order to keep that area under some semblance of control you have to keep those people down. In order to keep the average person in the west going along with the idea you have to keep them scared.

a reply to: cosmickat

Yes. I reckon we are to a point.

Historically, there have always been sections of society willing to drag ugly, old women from their homes and have them tried as witches. Same folk posed for snapshots with the lynched black males and it was the same ones ratting out their Jewish neighbours and then looting their empty homes. They burn out Christian neighbours in rural Indian villages and incite the murder of young Afghan women at the shops. They used to call young black males rapists and now they call young Asian males rapists.

Same people and they come in different colour skins and during different times. They do all this for selfish reasons.

What's the difference between some radical Muslim cleric calling Westerners evil and a radical Westerner calling Muslims evil? Aren't they two sides of the same coin and don't both incite hatred and fear equally amongst their own populations?

These are the ones who cause a lot of division in societies across the world. Right now, they're playing on fears through emotive media campaigns. There's feedback between the major MSM and smaller voices too. After all the MSM never sells stories that people aren't buying.

It's gotten to the point where even I'm feeling anxious about immigration. I'm looking for 'young male refugees' in news footage ffs! Those that want us to hate each other are clearly succeeding and the recent run on ATS of panic and hatred is very telling.

I'm European and the refugee influx is concerning; it really is. There's a big difference between 'concerned' and the signs of hysteria and hatred that, yes, fuel radicalism.

a reply to: cosmickat

We are not, as long as we includes me.

I am immune to that group mentality idiocy. I know that I am not alone. There are others of us out there, who understand that the enemy is never who you are told the enemy is, but more often it is an appendage or associate of the individual or organisation handing out the dossiers. My government, left to their own devices, and free of corporate interference in foreign policy, would not be a threat to our country. However, lead around by the testes as they are by corporate military agendas, they are indeed the gravest threat to our national security that has ever been seen.

Their response to terror threats from outside our nation is a clear indicator. Military responses to that which ought to be dealt with by assassins, carpet bombing and drone strikes in areas where silenced pistols and cold steel would be more effective, creating more terrorists than they kill by supporting certain regimes and making enemies of others... These are not moves a government makes, when results are what they are after. They are moves made by a government, paid for and owned by corporate interests, to keep the war machine turning without a merest hint of concern for those who pay the price, both financially with respect to our population, and the flesh cost, the cost in lives paid by countless bystanders and innocent parties in lands far distant.

We are not being radicalised, but some of us are. As long as there remain those who refuse to be programmed, those who write their own code to live by, the efforts of those looking to turn us against our fellow man, cannot truly be said to have been successful. We will not fall, we will not surrender our free will. We are many, we are free, and our enemies are not any one demographic, or any one ideology. They are those who seek to denude us of our right to determine our fate, and dirty the name of our nation by doing in its name, that which none of us would agree to, given a choice and the information to make it wisely.

a reply to: anxiouswens

I agree with a lot of your points, I too remember very clearly, being afraid of IRA threats. My family hails from Ireland originally. I just remember it as being a very worrying time for everyone in the UK.

The reference you made to far right extremists also encompasses my point that we are all being radicalized on every side. TPTB are kicking the hornets' nest. But to what aim ? I hate the fact that we are being soaked in mistrust and fear. And I hate the fact that is changing us. I see good people, friends and even family, changing before my eyes. makes me wonder where it is taking us. Where that ends up being is not a good place for anyone.

its hard not to be alarmed when this is happening on the doorstep and we don't know how many people could have infiltrated these people (lets face it ISIS would be mad not to!). www.facebook.com... reply to: cosmickat

a reply to: GD21D

I am just about on the same page as you, which is why I tried to make some kind of an analogy regarding the marketing of the " The War on Terror " I think that there is a huge business and lots of money to be made out of " war " but to what cost?
Ultimately, I worry about how this global fear is going to translate and manifest itself on our streets and in our neighborhoods.

The big corporations will always get rich, no matter what, with so many fingers in so many pies. We all have to live alongside each other in an ever decreasing space. My worry is true cost will be seen in ordinary suburban streets.

a reply to: TrueBrit

thank you. I hope that I too remain in the " We are not " camp. However hard "they " try.

Its not just terrorism people are afraid of. Here in UK we are having all sorts of benefits cut, we have thousands of homeless people, we have people made redundant, our Children Services are finding it difficult to cope, two Councils have said this week they just can't take any more immigrants/refugees as they are struggling to cope and that it isn't fair to the thousands of British people who are on waiting lists for houses. Our NHS is falling apart. There are no school places, people find it difficult to see a GP sometimes having to wait 2 weeks, a lot of people can't find a dentist because all the waiting lists are closed. Our Police have been cut so drastically they are now saying they won't be able to visit people when they have been burgled etc and they don't think they can keep people safe. Our armed forces have been cut drastically. Normal British people feel like they are being treated like second class citizens, when I say British people I don't mean white, I mean across the board everyone is saying the same, this also is causing a lot of resentment when people are coming into the Country (illegal immigrants) from Calais and are being put up in hotels etc. a reply to: cosmickat

a reply to: anxiouswens

All of those things, the juxtaposition of immigration, and the drops and cuts in vital services, are part of a grand design, a corral for our minds, meant to funnel us toward blind ignorance and hatred for a perceived threat, while those who created this cluster bang farm us for resources and lie to us about the costs they have to pay, the better to grow their bottom lines.

I am talking about nothing more than high treason here.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
its hard not to be alarmed when this is happening on the doorstep and we don't know how many people could have infiltrated these people (lets face it ISIS would be mad not to!). www.facebook.com... reply to: cosmickat

I get what you are saying, kind of what my initial post was driving at.
I followed your link and my initial thought was o m g all of these people, fleeing their war torn homeland looking for help, a safe place to put their children to bed at night.
I did not immediately think o m g all of those refugees, how many ISIS extremists are hiding in the group.
I hear the same msm spin, I am exposed to the same propaganda, but, and you can call me naïve or just stupid, I refuse to see ISIS around every corner or under every burqa.
I resist this because I believe that is exactly how TPTB want us to react, and I refuse to buy into their scheme or be radicalised by them.
The other point that strikes me whenever I read the stories of IS infiltrating groups of refugees to gain access into Europe, sleeper cells and all of that, is... IS extremists are already here ! If "radicalization" is a thing, and it is happening throughout UK and Europe, I doubt it is all just happening through a " distance learning " remote method.

a reply to: cosmickat

I was born and have lived in the States most of my life. I have traveled abroad, and spent several years in what was West Germany” during the 1980's in the US Army. I also participated in the 1st gulf war. Although I always felt safe in Europe, where I carried sometimes (mostly unloaded) weapons as part of my Army service, I did not feel safe in in the ME. I did not understand the culture, where boundaries lay, or if I was possibly offending people. I had a Saudi Lt. Col. who was about 23 years old try to buy a female Lieutenant from me at one point, and I was offered young boys for my “amusement.” I hated defending those folks with my life and the lives of my soldiers.

I have never felt the need to carry a gun for protection in the US. I can do so legally with the CWP that I have, but I only do so on the occasional times during the year that I go to the range with my friends to shoot target. I hunt, but not with an AR-15; I use the old fashioned bolt action guns and a pump shotgun.

For all the talk about American violence with guns, and I do not dispute the figures, I still feel safer here in the US than when I have gone to the ME, or Central and South America. Maybe I do not understand culture in these places, and so it frightens me.

As I mentioned, I have never been in a situation in the US where I needed a gun to protect myself. That is saying a lot, because as a younger man I ran with a “fast” crowd, got into some bad situations, and had to learn to run quickly and occasionally get into a scuffle or two. I wish my fellow Americans could get over the fear and hype that is sold to us in a daily basis about how unsafe the US is, as compared to other parts of the globe.

Imagine going to a place where almost every household has an AK-47, and people are willing to shoot their neighbors, get into running gun-battles over an insult, and are not adverse to killing your children to prove a point or avenge their “honor.” I don't think most of us would want to stay in that neighborhood, but the reality is that millions of our fellow human beings live in these conditions.

Fear is a great motivator. It also sells advertising on the news stations. So, our news channels report items that can be sensationalized to make money. No conspiracy there, just business. I like a good action movie – who wants to see a story about my boring life where I get up, go to work, come home and go to bed without anyone trying to kill me?

Sorry if I have hopped around on this, but what I am trying to say is that the danger is overrated. Relax, reflect on what your life is really like, and how dangerous your situation really is on a day-to-day basis. When was the last time in your life that you needed a weapon to defend yourself? When was the last time you were really threatened?

My bet is for most of you it involved a traffic situation, and no one was trying to harm you, just drivers not doing a good job of driving.

For those few out there who have real danger, I have been there, and wish for your safety, and am glad to not be in those places anymore. My advice is get the hell out of there. Selah.

Afterthought - I know we are afraid of the strangers and refugees, but how much fear might they have to leave their homes and lives behind. Compassion doesn't hurt, it is free, and you might get to like it.

a reply to: olbe66

perspective I thank you for that. I think that is probably what we all need to think about, while we try to keep a lid on the paranoia and collective hysteria.