The True Vision of Ezekiel.

A most intriguing vision of the past that lends itself to all sorts of conspiracy is undoubtedly that of Ezekiel, but not for the reasons generally considered with regards to the popular UFO suggestions, it represented something much more important, the vision of the Heliocentric solar system were the four wheels that rotate around the central throne are the four planets of the inner solar system rotating upon their own axis, were the essential symbolism was Eagle represented Mercury, the Ox Venus, the Earth Man, and the Lion Mars.



The question then really is what on Earth were the Hebrews doing suggesting the Heliocentric model of the solar system in a Book composed Post-Babylonian exile over a period of 570 to 70 Bc, one thing is certain, they were incapable of figuring that out for themselves, they could only have learnt such considerations from the Greeks

Aristarchus of Samos c. 310 – c. 230 BC was an ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician who presented the first known model that placed the Sun at the center of the known universe with the Earth revolving around it (see Solar system). He was influenced by Philolaus of Croton, but he identified the "central fire" with the Sun, and put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun. As Anaxagoras before him, he also suspected that the stars were just other bodies like the sun. His astronomical ideas were often rejected in favor of the geocentric theories of Aristotle and Ptolemy.

The only reasonable time frame for the Hebrews being introduced to Heliocentric ideas is when they have become under Seleucid rule following Alexanders conquest of the greater region, the Heliocentric model was demonstrated in those parts;

Some facts suggest that Aristarchus' heliocentric model was an accepted theory for some centuries. It is known that a demonstration of the model was given by Seleucus of Seleucia, a Hellenistic astronomer who lived a century after Aristarchus, but no full record has been found. Pliny the Elder and Seneca referred to planets' retrograde motion as an apparent (and not real) phenomenon, which is an implication of heliocentrism rather than geocentrism.

So there is a time frame for when they could have been made aware of such ideas, but the greater question is why would they have so readily adopted such revolutionary ideas so hotly disputed, i think the answer to that lies in most readily believing what most pleases, the Greek suggestions were an absolute cosmological super weapon when it came to undermining the neighbouring religions traditions of Mesopotmiai and Egypt, both of which held the Sun to make a nocturnal journey beneath the flat Earth, Heliocentric theory rendered these basic premises ridiculous.



Given that the Hebrews didn't really have any developed cosmology or concern with the transition of the Sun through the Underworld they had nothing to lose and everything to gain by adoption of Heliocentricity, yet they never openly argued the case for it, perhaps because they lacked the expertise to enter into the debate and were happy for it to remain a secret doctrine.

Christianity given it's synthesis of Greek and Hebrew tradition adopted this doctrine as a central premise, were the four Gospels of the Apostles shared the same symbolism as the wheels of Ezekiel's chariot, Matthew the Ox, Mark the lion, Luke the Eagle and John the Man, a Christ centric configuration were the essential symbolism is the model of the inner solar system.



Despite this again it is the case that no Christian Theologian is championing the cause of the Heliocentric, it remains a secret doctrine, and yet ancient religious traditions all around begin to collapse as they are readily undermined whilst the Christian cause becomes ever stronger, a secret weapon being employed to great effect behind the closed doors of the learned.

It was probably desirable that the general populace shouldn't have any understanding that it had been realized by the Greeks that the Earth was a sphere and that a good approximation of it's circumference had been made, that among the learned this and the fact that the Sun rotated around the Sun had been accepted, open discussion of such ideas ended.

I think it's the case that if the Hebrews hadn't gambled on the Greek Heliocentric model being correct around the 3rd century BC then Christianity which developed that premise could not have later so readily expanded and undermined existing tradition, so arguably there is no other idea which has so readily transformed religion than the vision of Ezekiel, or perhaps more correctly that of Aristarchus of Samos.

As always, thank you for posting such an interesting thread and, in this case, theory.
I like this approach towards interpretation, though i wonder if, since each had FOUR faces (Man, Lion, Ox & Eagle)...if, maybe, the four faces refer to location (compass points) along the night sky horizon, as each [creature] moved through it's nightly circuit.
Each animal could refer to the directions of commonly-known lands, which are symbolized by animals.

"FACE", in other words, refers to juxtaposition, rather than visage.

10 As for the likeness of their faces, each had the face of a man; each of the four had the face of a lion on the right side, each of the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and each of the four had the face of an eagle. 11 Thus were their faces.

I would say we really don't know what he saw, if anything and that any "interpretation" is nothing but opinion, based on a book that has been translated, edited and rewritten by so many that the original words are probably very different than what is known today.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Jewish scriptures were translated into Greek in the two centuries immediately before the birth of Christ. The Greek version of these books is called the Septuagint. The Jewish Bible in Hebrew is called the Masoretic text (meaning passing down after a Hebrew word Masorah; for Jewish scholars and rabbis curated and commented on the text). The Greek (Septuagint) version of Ezekiel differs considerably from the Hebrew (Masoretic) version – it is shorter and possibly represents an early interpretation of the book we have today (according to the masoretic tradition) – while other ancient manuscript fragments differ from both.

a reply to: DAVID64

If he saw anything it was a working Greek model of the Heliocentric solar system, the translation of this into a supposed cosmic vision is neither here nor there for me, as i wouldn't take any of it at face value, except for being made of bronze...

As I looked, a stormy wind came out of the north: a great cloud with brightness around it and fire flashing forth continually, and in the middle of the fire, something like gleaming amber. In the middle of it was something like four living creatures. This was their appearance: they were of human form.Each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf’s foot; and they sparkled like burnished bronze.

a reply to: IAMTAT

That;s true, the four were each understand to have shared nature, that common values could be applied to all, which if they were all understood as planets in orbit around the Sun and rotating upon their axis would hold true

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Starred, flagged, posted for later.

This is one topic that I am very interested in, especially the various different interpretations. To add, your interpretations usually blow my mind so thank you for posting this and I shall share more of my opinion once I've properly read your thread.

I just wonder if Jupiter was one of the four (perhaps the Ox) as it is visible to the earthbound observer.
Perhaps, it was 'The Ox'. Wouldn't it have the slowest transit across the sky?
If this was given as a vision ,then Earth (Man) would be one of the 'Four' EZ observed...however, as an observation, Earth would be absent...and 'Man' might be Mars.
I see Venus, as the Lion...due to it's 'Mane-like' brightness. That would leave Mercury as the eagle (Speed).

a reply to: IAMTAT

I think the relationship of Venus to oxen symbolism is that it could be seen in crescent form;

When the planet Venus approaches the earth now, it is only partly illuminated, a portion of the disc being in shadow; it has phases like the moon. At this time, being closer to the earth, it is most brilliant. When Venus had a coma, the horns of its crescent must have been extended by the illuminated portions of the coma. It had two long appendages and looked like a bull's head.

Rabbinical authorities say that `the devotion of Israel to this worship of the bull is in part explained by the circumstance that, while passing through the Red Sea, they beheld the celestial Throne, and most distinctly of the four creatures about the Throne, they saw the ox.

These faces and images are familiar to me. They appear as projections from the eye and tether, in colors of blue, indigo, and purple. The try to speak a message before they are consumed by the lower frequency fauna. Maybe they must speak once more.

According to the op your post could only be true if you were greek...

The thread seems like an exercise in restricting thought.

a reply to: trifecta

a reply to: Kantzveldt

From Ezekiel:

15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

You kinda left out the part about living creatures...

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

In spiritual terms, which is what that passage is involved with, the planets are as living creatures and their influence was associated with their orbits particularly with regards to Earth based perspective, which again the passage is concerned with.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I think you're generalizing a bit. Especially with the innumerable accounts of living beings associated with roundish craft.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

You believe there are many UFO cases involving an eagle, Ox, and a Lion...?!?

a reply to: Kantzveldt

If you take the centre of the vision to be the Throne Chariot, it could represent Polaris around which all the visible stars revolve. There is some blatant syncretism and 'borrowing" from Assyro-Babylonian astrology going on here by the editor of Hezekiel (wriring around 550 BCE)

The four faces of YHWH parallel the 4 faces of the Assyrian god Asher (remember Yahweh had a wife named Asherah before 670 BCE) the four faces being (quatre faces = Carfax) that of a Man, an eagle, an Ox and a Lion.

The Four faces would therefore be the four Royal stars:

Antares (West) autumnal equinox - Eagle or Scorpion
Formalhaut (North), - winter solstice - Piscus Austinus = Aquarius the Man carrying a water jar
Regulus (South) - summer solstice - Leo the Lion
Aldebaron (East) - vernal equinox - Taurus the Bull

The whole vision in Hezekiel chapter 1 and chapter 10 is imbued with Stellar astrological symbolism throughout....

Just my $0.02

a reply to: Sigismundus

Yes i think that's also correct, the question is can both suggestions be correct, can an axis from Celestial North which was related to the turning of the entire Heavens and the four royal stars of the zodiac be conjectured to extend to the Sun at it's height due South around which the Earth itself rotates, wheels within wheels.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

The four faces of the cherubim go back further than Ezekiel. And the the sun chariot motif goes back much further also. I'm not calling for an evangelical timeline, where the Hebrew scriptures are literal history. But the "pattern of the tabernacle" was something that is far older. Egypt to Israel/ATS

The vision of the jewish temple (and Ezekiel's vision/being that it is loaded with temple symbolism) was that of the sun (bridegroom) rising out of the east, entering into the bride through the East gate. Most all ancient temples were designed symbolically like a person laying on their back. In this case the legs face east, with the head to the west, the left side North, and the right side south. The 1st entrance into the temple symbolizes the vagina, you can see remnants of this in churches with the pointed arch doorway, and the Sheila Ngig's representing a clitoris. (Rome had caught on the hemaphrodite concept of the temple which eventually carried over into the obelisk design of church bell towers. The obelisk representing Osiris's penis, and the bells are the balls.) The bronze pillars of Solomon are the legs of the woman. The second entrance is into the egg, where the two become one, then as the high priest emerges he is seen as the son/sun of God. A new creation. This was carried over into Hebrews with Jesus entering into the Holy of Holies and being declared the Son of God, and also being equated with the one like a Son of Man in Ezekiels vision.

The tabernacle is called the Qodesh, the holy of Holies is the Qodesh Qodesh. Qodeshu is the sacred virgin, who just so happens to bear the 4 heads of the cherubim far earlier than the Ezekiel vision.

Your point that Ezekiel is a new scientific thought, is something I'll have to ponder a while. If its the case though, then I would put the understanding of a heliocentric model going back at least to the followers of Hathor/Qodeshu who were the proto-israelites. But I'm not sure considering the concept of the sun rising, entering from the east.

If there is any validity to Moses historically maybe the knowledge of the heliocentric model was part of the wisdom of the egyptians that he took with him. I also would be interested to see if the other Mystery religions held this symbolism secretly. I say other because the Israelite religion was a mystery religion, until the Second temple reforms that cleaned up the past lewdness of the Israelites, and created the "jews", who were looked at as completely false by a large swath of people, including Jesus. This isn't anti-semitism in any way for Jesus was a semite, but not a jew. The term jew was used by John only. It was quite disparaging, but they knew what the jews were. Plants from the empire. A vassal state of good boys and girls that would do the bidding of the empire.

a reply to: zardust

Yes the astral symbolism pre-dates Israel with regards to the symbolism of the Royal stars or cherubs, and as you say the general Temple design of Northern Mesopotamia was essentially dualistic consisting of an outer chamber of preperation and an inner of illumination, but with regards to the tradition of the Prince entering through the gate that is toward the East there is much more involved with that with regards to the square idealized Heavenly Temple, which could also correspond to the overall inner chamber of regular Temples.



The Heavenly Temple as one might imagine is in the Heavens, it was understood as the square of Pegasus, in Sumeria very closely related to Enki being in that watery quadrant of the Heavens.



The importance of the Pegasus square lay in it being understood as the first place of emergence from the cosmic waters, the establishment of order according to the square and in it's relationship to the standard field measure of Sumeria, it contained within it the sum of all sub divisional measures.

But before the establishment of the square there was the egg, as in The Island of the Egg, and that egg was understood to have originated with Anunitum, the fish of Pisces, and passed along the river of that constellation to it's place of incubation and hatching, at the dove or swallow beneath Pegasus.



So the framework toward a symbol of a coming new age is based upon that of first creation, and the Hevrews were by no means the first or the only ones to concern themselves with this, see the Earthworks of Newark.

For the Prince then to be entering into the inner sanctum of the sacred square through the gate that is toward the East that requires Pegasus to be at the Vernal equinox, and there it is.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

The true vision of Ezekiel can be mostly summed up in a few Bible verses. God is showing Ezekiel who He is...

Colossians 1:15-19

15 Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;

Merkabah/Merkavah mysticism (or Chariot mysticism) is a school of early Jewish mysticism, c. 100 BCE – 1000 CE, centered on visions such as those found in the Book of Ezekiel chapter 1, or in the hekhalot ("palaces") literature, concerning stories of ascents to the heavenly palaces and the Throne of God. The main corpus of the Merkabah literature was composed in Israel in the period 200–700 CE, although later references to the Chariot tradition can also be found in the literature of the Chassidei Ashkenaz in the Middle Ages.[1] A major text in this tradition is the Maaseh Merkabah (Works of the Chariot).[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Ezekial created kaballah, and the pro[hecy was fulfilled, the kaballists rule the world.

The text as a whole appears to be a discussion between Ezekiel and YHWH, beginning with YHWH promising to Ezekiel that the dry bones will be raised and knitted together again to resurrect the kingdom of Israel. The author has taken the biblical account of Ezekiel 37 as his source, but whereas the resurrection of Israel in Ezekiel 37 is a metaphor for national restoration, Pseudo-Ezekiel describes the resurrection of the righteous dead of Israel. Pseudo-Ezekiel therefore takes its place alongside 4Q521 as one of the only two texts found at Qumran which clearly refer to resurrection. This is followed by a prophecy that a "son of Belial" will come to oppress the Israelites, but he will be defeated and "his dominion will not exist." In remaining fragments, Ezekiel asks YHWH if time itself could be made to accelerate so that Israel may reclaim the promised land sooner rather than later. There is an stray segment which redresses the theme of resurrection, followed by a final evocation of the Merkabah, the chariot of YHWH mentioned in Ezekiel 1.

en.wikipedia.org...

as usual we should look at the dead sea scrolls for the truth because the scriptures since have been changed and edited many times.