‘YouTube effect’ has left police officers under siege, law enforcement leaders say:

a reply to: Loveaduck

And then we will get a new website that posts all the brutality that officers commit. You don't need youtube to see that our police are acting like the SS.

How about they stop acting like they are immune to being in the wrong and protect and serve THE PEOPLE.

I used to be on the fence about police but now I've seen so many videos, black and white and inbetween, to know that our police are out of control

a reply to: Spider879

This issue isn't as simple as some want to make it seem.

Sure, we can say that if the police aren't doing anything wrong, they shouldn't mind being recorded, and this is true, but for one thing. Videos are typically edited to show whatever the video maker wants people to see. Details that would go against the position resented are not shown, angles are chosen, when there is more than one, to show things from only one perspective, details about prior circumstances are routinely not included, and so forth. So, when the average person sees video, they react based on only what hey see, or think they see, and are thus easily manipulated.

This isn't a new thing, either. The first time I saw this was in regard to the Rodney King video. Most of the time, we all saw the same clip of the officers beating on King. However, the complete video showed a lot more. King was a big guy, and I mean BIG. He repeatedly got up and attacked the officers, quite effectively, and did this several times, at which point they reacted, and knocked him back down. Yet all we saw, most of the time, was the knocking down. When this was all happening, one station, one time, showed the unedited video. That video made it clear why the officers were acquitted in court, of any criminal action. Yet many still assume they were in the wrong, because many never saw the unedited video.

In today's world, this should not be the case. We all know that video can and is used regularly to show us something that isn't real. We watch television shows and movies that show us all sorts of fantastic events, none of which are remotely close to reality, and yet which appear as real as anything, when they are presented to us. Many even believe that the government can and does fake scenes showing false events. Yet, for some unfathomable reason, most people assume that a YT video is only showing truth, when it comes to everyday events. Bigfoot can be labeled fake, or aliens, or anything of that nature, and no one has a problem calling those edited, or outright faked, but when it comes to the police, what you see "must be real". Police cams, of the sort they wear, or their dashcams, I could see accepting when they show a cop at fault, but citizen video? What, no one can edit those? No one can set something up to mislead? Nothing can be staged?

Selective acceptance is what we have here. In light of that, I can see the cops having a valid complaint.

This kind of nonsense the cops are spouting will likely lead to a change in the law, allowing cops to legally be more aggressive.

a reply to: Spider879

Accountability and responsibility is a bitch...

a reply to: Spider879

LOL, Youtube does nothing but show the world what they are ACTUALLY DOING out there. They put themselves under siege. Youtube just reported and validated it.

originally posted by: Loveaduck
a reply to: Spider879

Answer is clear. Get rid of youtube.
I'd be willing to sacrifice it, if that helps our officers.

You Tube is here to stay...what'll happen next to chip away at our freedoms is they'll get a law passed making it illegal to record LEO's.

The violence against police is a direct result of their tactics against the population. If they want to see change, it will have to start with them. But their answer will be to hit harder and more often.

A cop pulls a guy over for something. The guy says something stupid. The cop yanks him out of his car, throws him down on the ground. The guy tries to cover up and protect himself. The cop starts punching him. His partner starts punching him while yelling, "Stop resisting!" Two more cops show up and start punching him. He keeps trying to cover up. If people are punching you in the face instinct and self preservation make you cover up and try to block the punches. That is called resisting arrest and makes them hit you harder. In order to get them to stop hitting you, you have to move your hands away from your face and let them hit you until they get tired. Look at some of the videos where cops are repeatedly yelling, "Stop resisting!" Most of the time, not all but most, the guy is just trying to block incoming punches or baton strikes. The problem is the cops know this and use it to their advantage. If they stopped calling it resisting it would be nothing more than an assault by cops on a civilian. As long as they can call it resisting it will be allowed to continue.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Loveaduck
a reply to: Spider879

Answer is clear. Get rid of youtube.
I'd be willing to sacrifice it, if that helps our officers.

You Tube is here to stay...what'll happen next to chip away at our freedoms is they'll get a law passed making it illegal to record LEO's.

Like what they tried to do in Chicago and Texas but much thanks to the much berated AFL-CIO they had to scrap it.
Illinois Passes Bill That Makes It Illegal To Record The Police
www.ibtimes.com...
Btw keep in mind Chicago had that secret prison where they disappear people earlier this year.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

In today's world, this should not be the case. We all know that video can and is used regularly to show us something that isn't real. We watch television shows and movies that show us all sorts of fantastic events, none of which are remotely close to reality, and yet which appear as real as anything, when they are presented to us. Many even believe that the government can and does fake scenes showing false events. Yet, for some unfathomable reason, most people assume that a YT video is only showing truth, when it comes to everyday events. Bigfoot can be labeled fake, or aliens, or anything of that nature, and no one has a problem calling those edited, or outright faked, but when it comes to the police, what you see "must be real". Police cams, of the sort they wear, or their dashcams, I could see accepting when they show a cop at fault, but citizen video? What, no one can edit those? No one can set something up to mislead? Nothing can be staged?

Selective acceptance is what we have here. In light of that, I can see the cops having a valid complaint.

Do the above applies to police dash cams?? or lockup cams , how about store cams, see that's the kind of attitude that have jurors giving cops the benefit of doubt about 99% of the time over a civilian including wrongful deaths if...no camera was involved , hell sometimes even if a camera was involved the cops get to walk.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Spider879
...so in order to lower crime rates it is necessary to commit crimes or at least questionable acts, I say the opposite the more disrespectful LOE is to the public the more blow back it will cause and actually play into the hands of real criminals who can recruit younger members of society into their fold by pointing out that the people in blue are just another rival gang member.

Your petty immaturity aside (waaah!!), I agree with your conclusion that I put in bold above.

But that's not the overall point, nor is it the general reality of most police officers in the U.S. I would argue that what was being cited in your source is that the propensity for laypeople to upload any and all confrontations with police officers and call their actions "brutality" or unjustified is causing LEOs to be less proactive in relatively mundane situations (like groups loitering, or walking in the middle of the street, or selling stuff illegally) because they are concerned about what may transpire (possible confrontation) and how it will be perceived in the court of public opinion--a court that knows little-to-nothing concerning proper procedures of law enforcement.

So, in essence, the police are doing a watered-down version of policing because people are so quick to post ANY negative interaction with police, even if the LEO's actions were completely justified. But it's the perception in the public that often has a negative impact on the officer's life and career, even if he/she did everything correct and by the book.

I'm all for calling out LEOs when they are in the wrong, especially when people lose their lives or freedoms because of something that officers do, but there are too many false accusations and misinterpretations of what LEOs do during interactions posted on YouTube (often the videos don't show the whole story). Thisis what is causing the problem for officers, coupled with the statistically small percentage of them who actually do things in the wrong.

But like I say, the court of public opinion is trying these people, not a court of law, and the vast majority of people (especially here on ATS) who follow the types of things posted in this forum tend to be ignorant to the law, procedure, and the whole story for each video or story posted. But that doesn't matter, because by the time anything is determined to warrant a trial, the public already has condemned the officer, who often loses his job even if nothing wrong was done--all in an effort to appease the public.

So, yes, this public perception of LEOs because of YouTube videos is disproportionately bad, but that goes back to ratings, I guess...no one gets views of videos of good cops doing good things.

Most of what you say is not true. Even for the worst offenses, officers receive paid suspensions, in general. In many cases, it is the police who have been filing inaccurate reports or who's dash cam footage is edited or broken. Police become more militarized and police not understanding the law has led to all the videos on Youtube. This is not a chicken or egg situation. This is a situation the police clearly brought upon themselves and sadly, upon officers who do a good job.

One can actually find a huge amount of youtube videos showing officers being reasonable (especially with the open carry people who are open carrying just to make a video), helping the homeless and even being pulled over by a citizen, as in this video

a reply to: rockintitz

Go back and read it again then, because you misinterpreted it.
To break it into point form:
1. Heavily armed populace, fear of (place paranoia here), many carrying concealed.

2. Cops terrified of populace because (see above point), dogs, imaginary terrorists, their own shadow, etc.

3. Self feeding fear circle.

Not sure where you got the idea that I think there are no nice people in the u.s..
But I am beginning to think that your police are there for not the reasons they claim.

a reply to: Spider879

its sad that our police system have hit 3rd world police brutality and abuse magnitude to the point where the police chiefs feel the need to find loopholes to cover their illegal actions.

funny how NSA spies on us and says if we are not doing anything illegal then we shouldnt worry about being monitored, yet Law enforcements dont want the same rule applied to them...!

a reply to: Spider879

I love how the article states that "Violent crime is inexplicably soaring in dozens of US cities."

Meanwhile across the whole nation violent crime is down... AGAIN!

FBI Graph for 2014 data (FBI Link)


And Spider, I think you are absolutely correct about the recruitment of younger members into criminal gangs with the message being those in blue are a rival gang. To make the situation worse we have a lot of people out of the workforce and wages are down significantly. Increases in poverty tend to see an increase in crime.

Perhaps welfare is good for something.

Then they should of been a Dentist or have gone to Art School, or a Contender!!!

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Spider879

its sad that our police system have hit 3rd world police brutality and abuse magnitude to the point where the police chiefs feel the need to find loopholes to cover their illegal actions.

funny how NSA spies on us and says if we are not doing anything illegal then we shouldnt worry about being monitored, yet Law enforcements dont want the same rule applied to them...!

I agree 100%

Youtube Effect in action: www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Loveaduck
a reply to: Spider879

Answer is clear. Get rid of youtube.
I'd be willing to sacrifice it, if that helps our officers.

You Tube is here to stay...what'll happen next to chip away at our freedoms is they'll get a law passed making it illegal to record LEO's.

Like what they tried to do in Chicago and Texas but much thanks to the much berated AFL-CIO they had to scrap it.
Illinois Passes Bill That Makes It Illegal To Record The Police
www.ibtimes.com...
Btw keep in mind Chicago had that secret prison where they disappear people earlier this year.

Damn, they are already trying it. Didn't know that. They're really gonna start the push now.

originally posted by: jockstar
This kind of nonsense the cops are spouting will likely lead to a change in the law, allowing cops to legally be more aggressive.

Was this to me? Showed as a response to my comment, so guessing so. Aggressive cops are only part of the issue here. Faked and misleading videos are another part.

Do you think every video you see is totally real? These days?

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

*snip*...and no one has a problem calling those edited, or outright faked, but when it comes to the police, what you see "must be real". Police cams, of the sort they wear, or their dashcams, I could see accepting when they show a cop at fault, but citizen video? What, no one can edit those? No one can set something up to mislead? Nothing can be staged?

Selective acceptance is what we have here. In light of that, I can see the cops having a valid complaint.

Do the above applies to police dash cams?? or lockup cams , how about store cams, see that's the kind of attitude that have jurors giving cops the benefit of doubt about 99% of the time over a civilian including wrongful deaths if...no camera was involved , hell sometimes even if a camera was involved the cops get to walk.

If the camera footage could have been tampered with, or is heavily edited, then sure. However, that isn't usually the case with that sort. When such footage shows wrongdoing, cops are typically held accountable, and rightly so. When the footage is from personal devices, and we see only small portions, and the people involved are with various activist groups, or outright criminals, then it's logical to assume some ulterior motive, and demand unedited footage.

These days, a lot of people assume the cops are in the wrong every time they are accused, and that isn't a fair assumption. Not all cops are of that sort, or even most, and criminals often lie to try and cover their crimes. This shouldn't surprise anyone. So, assuming that tiny snippets of video show the whole picture, and that the police are always the ones in the wrong, isn't logical.

I will be right there condemning the ones that really are in the wrong, and some are. The group that killed the homeless camper, for example, were totally wrong, and their own footage showed that. However, there are other cases where incomplete footage is shown, and people just assume the cops are the bad guys. It's no different than those who claim all military are mindless killing machines.

Now, that said, the police do tend to protect their own too often, even when their own are in the wrong, and that is a real problem. Recording the police should be totally legal, too. I have NO issues with that. I've done it myself. However, when the footage is shown, we all need to be careful to get all the data before allowing video to make up our minds for us. So, that's why I said I can see the police having a point. Doesn't mean I'd outlaw the video, by a long shot! Encouraging people to be more careful about forming opinions, though, isn't a bad plan.